4 ms·

For anyone who is happy about this, imagine if it was done to the politician you support. "But but but my favorite politician is not an orange racist fascist N

For anyone who is happy about this, imagine if it was done to the politician you support. "But but but my favorite politician is not an orange racist fascist Nazi piece of shit", you'll probably say, but that doesn't matter. Imagine him being silenced anyway, because "Freedom of Speech !== Entitlement to a Platform", and the platform owners might suddenly decide that it is in their political interest to silence their political opponents. Would you still honestly think that it is perfectly fine?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
It absolutely does matter. It's crazy to draw an equivalence between other bad things politicians do and sending goons to take over the legislature. When you attempt a coup, you don't get to claim a right to neutral treatment by media platforms.
ogre_codes 6y ago
> For anyone who is happy about this, imagine if it was done to the politician you support. I'm not overly concerned since politician I support don't encourage their supporters to attack democratic institutions.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  You missed the point where I was asking you to imagine a situation where he is silenced anyway. For defending democratic institutions, for example. This happens to russian opposition rather frequently, and on privately owned platforms.
  - majormajor 6y ago
    It's important to fight the Trumps and would-be-Trumps of the US now before they can gather enough power to take us further down that road. Trump being held to the same rules as everyone else[0] by a private party despite being a politician is basically the OPPOSITE of the government having so much power that even private parties will silence people the government doesn't like. So yes, I think it's VITALLY important to protect the rights of private Americans to NOT have to be mouthpieces for the government if they disagree. [0] well, actually, he's still getting some kid gloves, but it's an improvement
    - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
      I don't think you understand. This problem is larger than Trump. Big platforms will be around far longer than he. And they have unchecked power to create narratives in favor of one side, which their opposition won't be able to breach. The supported side will eventually (and inevitably) gain power, and then these private platform will be censoring opposition just because they don't like people speaking up against the government the platform supports. And it'll all be pretty legal.
majormajor 6y ago
Yes. I don't put much weight towards the complaints about this 1) there's the facist counter-argument "you shouldn't be able to silence the government," where the government having the ability to force me to repeat what they say scares me more than a company saying "I won't republish that" 2) there's this one, the "what if it was your favored politician"; this is pretty old news; not everything every politican says is published in every news outlet, editorial selection is as old as time, and we have to hope that there is enough competition in the market that things that resonate with lots of people find publishers (if anything, right now we seem to be suffering from being way beyond this, where we even have a lot of publishers for straight garbage nonsense). But this particular instance is an extra-weak-sauce one: nobody NEEDS twitter. Especially not the president! 3) and there's another angle where I think it's important that people act in line with their beliefs, not just with their wallets or their ad view counts, in order to preserve our democracy. There will always be bad actors. Trump is a bad actor. We can't simply throw up our hands and say "we have to accept all the bad actors because we might not always get it 100% right if we try to fight the bad actors." That supposed cure - doing nothing - is worse than the disease! "Is this person a dangerous nutjob who cares more about their own power than the health of the country" is one of those things that affects which politicians I support, so I'm not TERRIBLY worried about politicians I support falling into this particular trap. Since I believe this is an exceptional moment, I think exceptional action is warranted and am less concerned with supposed precedent. Twitter and Facebook spent 5 years being huge enablers for Trump, even though they never liked his politics, after all, going back to the start of his campaign. Clearly they're willing to tolerate a LOT.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  You are simply biased and this unable to perceive the situation objectively. The issue of social platforms silencing 'wrong' political positions is far more reaching than the current problem with trump, with potential dire consequences. For now, the situation plays into your liking, because you think 'Trump is a bad actor'. But what would you sing when you'll be supporting the bad actor? Simple example: Russian opposition is considered 'bad actors' in Russia by privately owned (by friends of Putin) tech giants, and is silenced on local social media.
skoopie 6y ago
Nobody cares about censorship as long as its about a viewpoint they don't like.
root_axis 6y ago
If they break the rules I'd be annoyed at them for giving twitter an excuse to ban them. Play by the rules.
triceratops 6y ago
> imagine if it was done to the politician you support. I'd sign up for their mailing list.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

It absolutely does matter. It's crazy to draw an equivalence between other bad things politicians do and sending goons to take over the legislature. When you attempt a coup, you don't get to claim a right to neutral treatment by media platforms.

ogre_codes 6y ago

> For anyone who is happy about this, imagine if it was done to the politician you support. I'm not overly concerned since politician I support don't encourage their supporters to attack democratic institutions.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
You missed the point where I was asking you to imagine a situation where he is silenced anyway. For defending democratic institutions, for example. This happens to russian opposition rather frequently, and on privately owned platforms.
- majormajor 6y ago
  It's important to fight the Trumps and would-be-Trumps of the US now before they can gather enough power to take us further down that road. Trump being held to the same rules as everyone else[0] by a private party despite being a politician is basically the OPPOSITE of the government having so much power that even private parties will silence people the government doesn't like. So yes, I think it's VITALLY important to protect the rights of private Americans to NOT have to be mouthpieces for the government if they disagree. [0] well, actually, he's still getting some kid gloves, but it's an improvement
  - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
    I don't think you understand. This problem is larger than Trump. Big platforms will be around far longer than he. And they have unchecked power to create narratives in favor of one side, which their opposition won't be able to breach. The supported side will eventually (and inevitably) gain power, and then these private platform will be censoring opposition just because they don't like people speaking up against the government the platform supports. And it'll all be pretty legal.

majormajor 6y ago

Yes. I don't put much weight towards the complaints about this 1) there's the facist counter-argument "you shouldn't be able to silence the government," where the government having the ability to force me to repeat what they say scares me more than a company saying "I won't republish that" 2) there's this one, the "what if it was your favored politician"; this is pretty old news; not everything every politican says is published in every news outlet, editorial selection is as old as time, and we have to hope that there is enough competition in the market that things that resonate with lots of people find publishers (if anything, right now we seem to be suffering from being way beyond this, where we even have a lot of publishers for straight garbage nonsense). But this particular instance is an extra-weak-sauce one: nobody NEEDS twitter. Especially not the president! 3) and there's another angle where I think it's important that people act in line with their beliefs, not just with their wallets or their ad view counts, in order to preserve our democracy. There will always be bad actors. Trump is a bad actor. We can't simply throw up our hands and say "we have to accept all the bad actors because we might not always get it 100% right if we try to fight the bad actors." That supposed cure - doing nothing - is worse than the disease! "Is this person a dangerous nutjob who cares more about their own power than the health of the country" is one of those things that affects which politicians I support, so I'm not TERRIBLY worried about politicians I support falling into this particular trap. Since I believe this is an exceptional moment, I think exceptional action is warranted and am less concerned with supposed precedent. Twitter and Facebook spent 5 years being huge enablers for Trump, even though they never liked his politics, after all, going back to the start of his campaign. Clearly they're willing to tolerate a LOT.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
You are simply biased and this unable to perceive the situation objectively. The issue of social platforms silencing 'wrong' political positions is far more reaching than the current problem with trump, with potential dire consequences. For now, the situation plays into your liking, because you think 'Trump is a bad actor'. But what would you sing when you'll be supporting the bad actor? Simple example: Russian opposition is considered 'bad actors' in Russia by privately owned (by friends of Putin) tech giants, and is silenced on local social media.

skoopie 6y ago

Nobody cares about censorship as long as its about a viewpoint they don't like.

root_axis 6y ago

If they break the rules I'd be annoyed at them for giving twitter an excuse to ban them. Play by the rules.

triceratops 6y ago

> imagine if it was done to the politician you support. I'd sign up for their mailing list.