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~1700 people per day die of heart disease in America and have done so for decades. I think we should shut down the economy until we can get everyone's heart hea

~1700 people per day die of heart disease in America and have done so for decades. I think we should shut down the economy until we can get everyone's heart healthy.

d4mi3n 6y ago
That'd make more sense if heart disease had a significant chance of killing people breathing the same air as you.
- matz1 6y ago
  Good thing that the chance of being killed by covid infected people breathing the same air as me is very very low.
  - sojournerc 6y ago
    How can someone downvote this? 99.9% is low odds...
    - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
      Anxiety disorder pervading society. Habituation to an unimaginably high safety standard in modern society.
    - ben_w 6y ago
      Sometimes COVID gets compared to flu. Thing is, most people underestimate what flu is like (I suspect this is because of the tendency to say “XYZ got the flu” when they had a common cold). This is what COVID is like — First roll two D4: If you rolled a 1 in the first, you now have a liver injury; If you rolled a 1 on the other, you lose your sense of smell. Now roll a D20: • 1-4: asymptotic but still infectious • 5-16: somewhere up to “mild pneumonia” • 17-19: severe symptoms (dyspnea, hypoxia, etc) • 20: critical symptoms (respiratory failure, shock, or multiorgan dysfunction) And that’s with treatment. All that “flattening the curve” talk early last year was about making sure people could still get treatment — if you exceed the capacity of the healthcare system, you don’t get to save all the people whose conditions would have been well within your capacity in a non-overloaded system.
  - d4mi3n 6y ago
    About 2%, currently. Meaning if you walk into a room, spend time in it with 100 other people, 2 of them are likely to die. The odds are low for an individual. Sadly, 2% is a bigger deal when you get on a bus, walk through an airport, use an elevator, go to a public restroom, or walk down a crowded sidewalk. This isn’t an issue of your health or my health. It’s an issue if everyone’s health.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  Obviously their chance of dying from breathing the same air as me isn't completely divorced from whether they're able to put down a donut.
adadtttt 6y ago
Heart disease isn't contagious
- nradov 6y ago
  Some cases of heart disease are caused by contagious viral or bacterial infections, such as influenza. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3533457/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3533457/
- stogxx 6y ago
  HIV is but we don't force carriers to self isolate
  - 0-_-0 6y ago
    We do tell them not to have unprotected sex, right?
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      And provide avenues for testing, and educate people to instill a culture in which people engaging in frequent sexual activity get routinely tested, and that's expected by their would-be partners.
  - jachee 6y ago
    HIV isn't spread via aerosol transmission. If it's were, it absolutely would require isolation upon infection. Edit: downvoting me doesn't make me wrong.
  - GlennS 6y ago
    People have been successfully prosecuted for knowingly spreading HIV.
  - LandR 6y ago
    We do ask them to put a "mask" on their penis if they are having sex though, and most do. Yet still there are people that can't put a mask on their face. Incredible.
simonbarker87 6y ago
You’re right, this is a massive issue and should be addressed as a public health emergency. Fortunately isn’t not contagious and so the solutions to that issue can be different from the solutions we apply to Covid.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
IkmoIkmo 6y ago
Can't believe after 12 months this argument is still being made. You say shutting down the economy so casually, as if it has no impact on an infectious disease spreading during a pandemic. If there hadn't been any shutdown, it would lead to a tenfold increase in infections and an even higher than tenfold increase in death as hospitals will be completely overwhelmed and unable to provide normal healthcare. But if you think a 20x death rate from the nr 1 cause of death (heart disease), preventable by a lockdown for a few more months as a vaccine is rolled out, is no big deal, then there really is no arguing with you.
- throwaway45349 6y ago
  You can't prove a negative, either.
- core-questions 6y ago
  My point is more like, 10x the number of people could be dying of COVID per day than are dying right now, and I would care about 10x more than I care about all those people who are dying of heart disease, which would still be an indescribably small amount of care, even with the multiplier. I am not making the argument that it's "just a flu", but I will make the argument that it's "just death". Death is. Only a sheltered person is emotionally distraught because of this; and in turn, only a person who cannot handle this perspective would deem it logical to permanently damage society in order to reduce this number. I am all for protecting older folks, even at great expense. We should have isolated every old folks' home and done everything possible to keep them COVID-free and well stocked with everything they need. These folks have served their time in society and deserve to be cared for with a higher standard than others. It's highly unfortunate that the exact opposite thing happened; I hope that we learn a lesson from this. However, when we're talking about the non-elderly, it seems that the vast majority of people who are dying are simply in bad shape / vitamin deficient / etc. Sorry, I don't see any reason I should care about their death any more than I would care about it if they died from heart disease, which is almost certainly going to get most of the people in that demographic eventually anyway, if they don't get hit by a car first. It's sad for their families, and for us it's just a warning to get some sunshine and exercise ever so often, which is literally all it takes to put yourself in the group of people who have a massively high survival rate. In fact, we've all had a whole year with literally nothing else to do for amusement to have gotten in good shape during. At this point, anyone who is still ignoring that has made their choice. It's about putting things in perspective. 50-100k people die from the flu every year in America for the past decade and nobody cared before and nobody will care about that 10 years from now either unless it's a really slow news day. > there really is no arguing with you There's plenty of arguing with me. Convince me why I should care about people who die of one disease when I already didn't care about all the people dying of a different one. That's fundamentally what this comes down to: blowing that level of care out of proportion while denying people the right to make their own decisions about what level of personal risk they are comfortable with.
TheRealSteel 6y ago
Wow, do you truly believe heart disease is contagious?
design-material 6y ago
On principle you're right - and hopefully you, and others who share your line of thought, will continue to fight for this after this period is over so that we can focus on spending money to alleviate problems affecting those in relative-poverty that we - as a society - have happily ignored thus far
d1zzy 6y ago
If heart disease was an airborne infectious diseases for which we have vaccines already being deployed, then by all means let's shutdown everything! (since the death rate like you pointed out is even bigger there)

~1700 people per day die of heart disease in America and have done so for decades. I think we should shut down the economy until we can get everyone's heart healthy.

d4mi3n 6y ago

That'd make more sense if heart disease had a significant chance of killing people breathing the same air as you.

matz1 6y ago
Good thing that the chance of being killed by covid infected people breathing the same air as me is very very low.
- sojournerc 6y ago
  How can someone downvote this? 99.9% is low odds...
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    Anxiety disorder pervading society. Habituation to an unimaginably high safety standard in modern society.
  - ben_w 6y ago
    Sometimes COVID gets compared to flu. Thing is, most people underestimate what flu is like (I suspect this is because of the tendency to say “XYZ got the flu” when they had a common cold). This is what COVID is like — First roll two D4: If you rolled a 1 in the first, you now have a liver injury; If you rolled a 1 on the other, you lose your sense of smell. Now roll a D20: • 1-4: asymptotic but still infectious • 5-16: somewhere up to “mild pneumonia” • 17-19: severe symptoms (dyspnea, hypoxia, etc) • 20: critical symptoms (respiratory failure, shock, or multiorgan dysfunction) And that’s with treatment. All that “flattening the curve” talk early last year was about making sure people could still get treatment — if you exceed the capacity of the healthcare system, you don’t get to save all the people whose conditions would have been well within your capacity in a non-overloaded system.
- d4mi3n 6y ago
  About 2%, currently. Meaning if you walk into a room, spend time in it with 100 other people, 2 of them are likely to die. The odds are low for an individual. Sadly, 2% is a bigger deal when you get on a bus, walk through an airport, use an elevator, go to a public restroom, or walk down a crowded sidewalk. This isn’t an issue of your health or my health. It’s an issue if everyone’s health.
gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
Obviously their chance of dying from breathing the same air as me isn't completely divorced from whether they're able to put down a donut.

adadtttt 6y ago

Heart disease isn't contagious

nradov 6y ago
Some cases of heart disease are caused by contagious viral or bacterial infections, such as influenza. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3533457/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3533457/
stogxx 6y ago
HIV is but we don't force carriers to self isolate
- 0-_-0 6y ago
  We do tell them not to have unprotected sex, right?
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    And provide avenues for testing, and educate people to instill a culture in which people engaging in frequent sexual activity get routinely tested, and that's expected by their would-be partners.
- jachee 6y ago
  HIV isn't spread via aerosol transmission. If it's were, it absolutely would require isolation upon infection. Edit: downvoting me doesn't make me wrong.
- GlennS 6y ago
  People have been successfully prosecuted for knowingly spreading HIV.
- LandR 6y ago
  We do ask them to put a "mask" on their penis if they are having sex though, and most do. Yet still there are people that can't put a mask on their face. Incredible.

simonbarker87 6y ago

You’re right, this is a massive issue and should be addressed as a public health emergency. Fortunately isn’t not contagious and so the solutions to that issue can be different from the solutions we apply to Covid.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

IkmoIkmo 6y ago

Can't believe after 12 months this argument is still being made. You say shutting down the economy so casually, as if it has no impact on an infectious disease spreading during a pandemic. If there hadn't been any shutdown, it would lead to a tenfold increase in infections and an even higher than tenfold increase in death as hospitals will be completely overwhelmed and unable to provide normal healthcare. But if you think a 20x death rate from the nr 1 cause of death (heart disease), preventable by a lockdown for a few more months as a vaccine is rolled out, is no big deal, then there really is no arguing with you.

throwaway45349 6y ago
You can't prove a negative, either.
core-questions 6y ago
My point is more like, 10x the number of people could be dying of COVID per day than are dying right now, and I would care about 10x more than I care about all those people who are dying of heart disease, which would still be an indescribably small amount of care, even with the multiplier. I am not making the argument that it's "just a flu", but I will make the argument that it's "just death". Death is. Only a sheltered person is emotionally distraught because of this; and in turn, only a person who cannot handle this perspective would deem it logical to permanently damage society in order to reduce this number. I am all for protecting older folks, even at great expense. We should have isolated every old folks' home and done everything possible to keep them COVID-free and well stocked with everything they need. These folks have served their time in society and deserve to be cared for with a higher standard than others. It's highly unfortunate that the exact opposite thing happened; I hope that we learn a lesson from this. However, when we're talking about the non-elderly, it seems that the vast majority of people who are dying are simply in bad shape / vitamin deficient / etc. Sorry, I don't see any reason I should care about their death any more than I would care about it if they died from heart disease, which is almost certainly going to get most of the people in that demographic eventually anyway, if they don't get hit by a car first. It's sad for their families, and for us it's just a warning to get some sunshine and exercise ever so often, which is literally all it takes to put yourself in the group of people who have a massively high survival rate. In fact, we've all had a whole year with literally nothing else to do for amusement to have gotten in good shape during. At this point, anyone who is still ignoring that has made their choice. It's about putting things in perspective. 50-100k people die from the flu every year in America for the past decade and nobody cared before and nobody will care about that 10 years from now either unless it's a really slow news day. > there really is no arguing with you There's plenty of arguing with me. Convince me why I should care about people who die of one disease when I already didn't care about all the people dying of a different one. That's fundamentally what this comes down to: blowing that level of care out of proportion while denying people the right to make their own decisions about what level of personal risk they are comfortable with.

TheRealSteel 6y ago

Wow, do you truly believe heart disease is contagious?

design-material 6y ago

On principle you're right - and hopefully you, and others who share your line of thought, will continue to fight for this after this period is over so that we can focus on spending money to alleviate problems affecting those in relative-poverty that we - as a society - have happily ignored thus far

d1zzy 6y ago

If heart disease was an airborne infectious diseases for which we have vaccines already being deployed, then by all means let's shutdown everything! (since the death rate like you pointed out is even bigger there)