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I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Amendment 25 - Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a m
by samch 6y ago
I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment.
Amendment 25 - Section 4:
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
- sneak 6y agoI don't think that would solve a single thing. All in all, there are much more pressing concerns facing the USA right now than the unimportant fallout from the election, although you'd never know it from turning on the news right now.
- vharuck 6y agoA sitting president ignoring election results and inciting a mob to literally attack the Federal government in an attempt to subvert the Constitution is a very pressing issue. It's hard to solve big problems with a government that ceases to abide by its own rules.
- tomp 6y agoCan you point me to any evidence when he literally incited the mob to attack? People say it was his Tweets but they were censored...
- maxerickson 6y agoHe ended his speech by telling them to go to the capital and be strong republicans and then after they forcefully invaded the capital building he made a video saying to be nice to the cops and he loves them. So much value in splitting hairs.
- Timpy 6y agoI saw a 1 minute clip of him talking where he spent 50 seconds fueling the fire with "we won this landslide election and it was stolen from us there was no way we lost Georgia" and ten seconds of "but go home and be peaceful"
- vharuck 6y ago>when he literally incited the mob to attack? I said "incited a mob to literally attack." He went up on stage, told them the presidency was being stolen, and urged them to march to the Capitol. They then marched to the Capitol and literally attacked.
- tomp 6y agoEncouraging protests isn’t inciting violence. But thanks! Good to know all these accusations are just fake news. Just as I assumed. He did tell them to “go home” though... but most fake news media won’t report that.
- jgwil2 6y agoYep. Told them to go home hours after this insanity began and in the same breath continued to falsely claim the election had been stolen. Whatta guy.
- vlunkr 6y agoIn his minute-long video he spent about 1 second to tell people to go home. The rest was repeating conspiracies, and telling the people rioting that they're special. It's unbelievable.
- ashtonkem 6y agoOr impeach & convict. He’s a threat to the republic, and he has to go.
- threatofrain 6y agoThat's stupid. No impeachment process could ever finish on time.
- noelsusman 6y agoThere's no reason why it would need to take more than a few minutes. It's not going to happen, but not due to time constraints.
- ashtonkem 6y agoIt can be done in 30min if they want. Impeachment goes how congress wants it to, the only part of the process set in stone is the voting requirements. Edit: oh and the 25th amendment would allow trump to object and be effectively tried in the senate. That amendment is really designed more for “the president is in a coma” than for “the president is currently trying to overthrow the government”.
- threatofrain 6y agoIf you rush impeachment, you will obliterate any productivity you sought for impeachment. The same is true for elections in that these aren't just procedural events, they are soul-defining events for a democracy, and the loss of credibility would be losing what matters most. Another Mueller would take forever to prepare a case for the American people.
- ashtonkem 6y agoThe republic is at stake and armed rioters have broken into the capital. To let the president do this and do nothing is to give up more credibility. It is to admit that the legislature is incapable of even providing for its own physical security, let alone the needs of their constituents.
- mhh__ 6y agoWould make it easier to pardon him, no?
- samch 6y agoThe pardoning scenario is interesting. He may well be pardoned for federal crimes by Pence or Biden, but Presidential pardons do not extend to state crimes. It’s possible that the NY State AG might have some issues to resolve once he is out of office.
- Balgair 6y agoAfter today, it would be very hard to convince the state AGs to not prosecute him despite any ideas Biden or Pence may have.
- meragrin_ 6y agoCongratulations! You have just escalated the conflict!
- samch 6y agoI’m not so sure, as it would be the VP and members of the Cabinet (all Republicans) who would initiate this process. That kind of leadership in support of democracy could help de-escalate this.
- ganoushoreilly 6y agoIt's not loyalty to the Republican party that's out there. It's loyalty to trump, it wouldn't do anything to absolve their complaints against the system.
- w0de0 6y agoFine. Escalation is sometimes necessary - otherwise one can be intimidated.
- samch 6y agoAgreed. History does not tend to look favorably on those who appease bullies.
- tstrimple 6y agoCongratulations! You just capitulated to terrorists!
- willis936 6y agoOnly in the same way that neutralizing Osama Bin Laden was capitulating to Al Qaeda. Edit: I misread this exchange. Lots of pronouns flying around.
- anigbrowl 6y agoGood luck finding half the cabinet willing to paint a target on their backs for every furious Trump supporter with a gun.
- Balgair 6y agoWe may yet find that his cabinet is willing to do so for their own reasons.
- eyelidlessness 6y agoAnd this is why we don’t negotiate with terrorists...
- eloff 6y agoThat's a bad idea. His presidency is basically over. The only thing it would accomplish is to convince his diehard supporters that a coup is in fact taking place and they should respond in kind.
- kadoban 6y agoHis diehards are already convinced of that.
- casefields 6y agoWhat he means is it would tip them over the edge and declare war against the government. Just like the way Ruby Ridge/Waco pushed McVeigh, only this time it would be much greater numbers willing to fight. A couple thousand of them using bombs/weapons could cause massive amounts of continuous long-term damage. Guerilla warfare, as we've come to find out over the past 50 years, is nearly unwinnable. It would manifest as The Troubles American Edition. McVeigh, John Brown, Bin Laden, Eric Rudolph, Kaczynski, are all the classic extremist that's willing to do whatever it takes to right what they perceive as an injustice.
- herewulf 6y agoGuerilla warfare only works if the guerillas can hide among a sympathetic populace or in a remote area. The former seems unlikely (how many Americans are really willing to risk life or freedom for Trump) and the latter is largely ineffective because of geographic separation from targets.
- Balgair 6y ago> What he means is it would tip them over the edge and declare war against the government. Where would storming the Capitol slot in on the spectrum?
- derwiki 6y agoNot as bad as blowing up occupied federal buildings
- notacoward 6y agoYou left out a very important part. If the president contests the exercise of the 25th, it gets thrown over to congress, needing a 2/3 majority to become effective. Unlikely. The die-hards will drag it out, until Trump automatically loses the presidency on January 20 and the whole thing becomes moot. Seems like a bit of a waste of time TBH. Even impeachment seems more likely to yield results within the necessary timeframe. https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv
- alisonkisk 6y agoNo. The President is out for at least 21 days (more than no minutes in this case) if the supermajority does not materialize.
- notacoward 6y agoIt's more like the president is out for at most 21 days. The 21-day limit only applies when no vote is taken. If a vote is taken, and fails to get 2/3 in both houses, the entire process completes in the president's favor. Done. You could in theory keep the president out of power simply by failing to have a vote (the "deliberately dropped packet" approach), but there's no provision for voting over and over again on the same question without new cause. You can't just make up such a provision that would be an exception to how anything else in congress (e.g. impeachment) works.
- hndudette2 6y agoTerrible idea. He's out in two weeks. Why stir up his base and invite confirmation bias when he's already out the door? That would be risking a lot to gain very little.
- colanderman 6y agoI wonder if Pence and the cabinet have already done so, in secret? Apparently it was Pence, not Trump, who ordered in the National Guard [1], and there doesn't seem to be any requirement in 25/4 that Pence and the cabinet inform anyone but the President pro tempore and Speaker that they have done as much. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/politics/pence-national-guard/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/politics/pence-national-guard...