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With all this talk about China threating US national security. US actions is actively causing damages in china. Sanctions on Huawei for example is already resul

by russli1993 6y ago

With all this talk about China threating US national security. US actions is actively causing damages in china. Sanctions on Huawei for example is already resulting Huawei unable to build smartphones and other products. There are layoffs at huawei, all kind of suppliers, even sales people at huawei stores. If you count all the people related by Huawei's activities, its millions. Normal people, regular folks, who just want to earn a living to support their families. Now all of sudden out of jobs during an pandemic year because of political action by US government. They may have bills and mortgages to pay, kids to feed. Real people are suffering because of the actions of US gov. Chinese people's security is actually being damaged here. And where do these people go to protest for their rights and fight for what were theirs?

ct0 6y ago
Are these the actions of the US Government or the response to China made by the US gov? China doesn't care about their own people rights, unfortunately.
luma 6y ago
It feels like your argument here is that any company that employees people should be allowed to do anything, because stopping them from doing something would negatively impact their employees.
- dgb23 6y ago
  The bigger point is that people with power don't feel the consequences. The victims are almost always the workers. Free trade and competition? As long as it suits the powerful. Democracy and sovereignty? Only if they play nicely with our big players. Human rights? If your economic interests align with ours. It doesn't need to be like this.
capableweb 6y ago
While you and me agree it's shitty of the US government to not consider all humans on this planet, this is hardly the first nor the last time the US government is actively trying make things worse for others. In fact, large parts of the US geopolitical strategy is just that, screw with others in order to try and save itself.
StreamBright 6y ago
You disagree with globalization? Me too.
- simonh 6y ago
  Do you believe individuals across the world should be free to travel, start and run businesses and deal with each other without unfair restrictions or penalties? If not, why?
  - StreamBright 6y ago
    If this is what globalisation means, sure. It is more like the marketing message of it.
  - StreamBright 6y ago
    I see these to be true: "Globalization can be partly responsible for the current global economic crisis. Case studies of Thailand and the Arab nations' view of globalization show that globalization is a threat to culture and religion, and it harms indigenous people groups while multinational corporations profit from it. Although globalization has promised an improved standard of living and economic development, it has been heavily criticized for its production of negative effects. Globalization is not simply an economic project, but it also heavily influences the country environmentally, politically, and socially as well." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_globalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_globalization
TravHatesMe 6y ago
Your comment sounds overly sympathetic. I'm not sure if blaming US actions for China's social loss is fair. Bills to pay, kids to feed -- is that the responsibility of the US government? Without a doubt China is not the most innocent country. They push their weight around with other countries and significantly impact their economy. Did you forget how unethical and dangerous their government is? Tiananmen square, Uighur Muslims, Hong Kong, Taiwan .. my heart does not bleed for them, not for a second.
someperson 6y ago
Just like China, the United States is an independent sovereign country that's allowed to make decisions which it considers in the best long-term interests of its people. Sometimes that can mean using trade embargoes, sanctions and economic decoupling. If the US conduct here in contravention of the mutually agreed upon World Trade Organization rules, then China should bring a case to the WTO.
- adrian_b 6y ago
  It is of course completely legal for the US to apply any kind of economic sanctions they desire against any Chinese company, like Huawei or any others. Nevertheless, it is stupid, for several reasons. One is that there are no real reasons to apply sanctions to the companies selected until now and not apply the same sanctions to absolutely all Chinese companies. As the US themselves say, all Chinese companies must obey the Chinese government and they must assist their military if ordered to, so there is no base for banning commerce with only a selected list of companies, instead of banning all. So the only reason why it can make sense to choose just some companies for the moment is that blocking completely all the commerce with China would hurt more the US than China. However, for the Chinese companies it is clear that these arbitrary sanctions are not correlated with any behavior that they might try to have in order to be liked by the US in order to avoid sanctions, but as long as they remain Chinese companies they may be sanctioned too at any time. So they have a single exit, to never buy again anything from the US but substitute everything with alternatives. Sooner or later they will succeed to do that and then the sanctions would not be efficient any more. The sanctions would have been successful only if there would have been 2 possible lines of action for the Chinese companies and it would have been certain that one direction implies sanctions and the other direction means no sanctions. In that case maybe the US sanctions would have been useful. As it is, they can just annoy the Chinese and force them to give up on buying US products, which cannot be of any benefit for the US. The second reason why the sanctions are stupid, is that they are hurting the Chinese only because they were sudden and unexpected so they have caught the Chinese off-guard, being still dependent of various components that include parts of US provenience. All this has happened only because the US propaganda has repeated during many decades that the global free commerce is good and that everybody should not waste time and money by producing goods that might be purchased from the US either at a lower price or at a higher quality. Now all this formerly very successful US discourse has been exposed as a pack of lies, as it appears to have been just a trap conceived to ensnare other countries to become economically dependent on the US, in order to be vulnerable to economic sanctions. Such a trap can work only once and the time and manner chosen by Trump were not at all the best. Now all countries will try to remove their dependencies on US and the next time when the US might need to have real leverage, for a better reason than now, it will be much less likely to have enough impact.
taklimakan 6y ago
> And where do these people go to protest for their rights and fight for what were theirs? They go to their own government, which is the entity that is supposed to protect them and operate in their interest. If that’s not possible because their government is too much $adjective, that’s on them, not on the US. Peoples have the right to self-determine. The US are “responsible” in the sense that they have played a role in causing certain eventual outcomes, but are obviously not “responsible” in the sense they should do something about those outcomes. They pursue their own foreign policy agenda, like all other nation-states do. Then the targets of that agenda have the opportunity to respond as they see fit, taking into account the relevant implications and welfare of their own citizens. Even more so, causing significant disruption to Huawei and putting the Chinese govt in a tight spot very likely was the goal of the entire thing in the first place. Are the US evil because of this? Maybe. However that’s just how foreign policy strategies work. To think otherwise is just naif, or preposterous.
tylerjwilk00 6y ago
A sovereign nation can't and shouldn't sacrifice itself to save another. It's duty is primarily to care for it's own citizens.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

ct0 6y ago

Are these the actions of the US Government or the response to China made by the US gov? China doesn't care about their own people rights, unfortunately.

luma 6y ago

It feels like your argument here is that any company that employees people should be allowed to do anything, because stopping them from doing something would negatively impact their employees.

dgb23 6y ago
The bigger point is that people with power don't feel the consequences. The victims are almost always the workers. Free trade and competition? As long as it suits the powerful. Democracy and sovereignty? Only if they play nicely with our big players. Human rights? If your economic interests align with ours. It doesn't need to be like this.

capableweb 6y ago

While you and me agree it's shitty of the US government to not consider all humans on this planet, this is hardly the first nor the last time the US government is actively trying make things worse for others. In fact, large parts of the US geopolitical strategy is just that, screw with others in order to try and save itself.

StreamBright 6y ago

You disagree with globalization? Me too.

simonh 6y ago
Do you believe individuals across the world should be free to travel, start and run businesses and deal with each other without unfair restrictions or penalties? If not, why?
- StreamBright 6y ago
  If this is what globalisation means, sure. It is more like the marketing message of it.
- StreamBright 6y ago
  I see these to be true: "Globalization can be partly responsible for the current global economic crisis. Case studies of Thailand and the Arab nations' view of globalization show that globalization is a threat to culture and religion, and it harms indigenous people groups while multinational corporations profit from it. Although globalization has promised an improved standard of living and economic development, it has been heavily criticized for its production of negative effects. Globalization is not simply an economic project, but it also heavily influences the country environmentally, politically, and socially as well." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_globalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_globalization

TravHatesMe 6y ago

Your comment sounds overly sympathetic. I'm not sure if blaming US actions for China's social loss is fair. Bills to pay, kids to feed -- is that the responsibility of the US government? Without a doubt China is not the most innocent country. They push their weight around with other countries and significantly impact their economy. Did you forget how unethical and dangerous their government is? Tiananmen square, Uighur Muslims, Hong Kong, Taiwan .. my heart does not bleed for them, not for a second.

someperson 6y ago

Just like China, the United States is an independent sovereign country that's allowed to make decisions which it considers in the best long-term interests of its people. Sometimes that can mean using trade embargoes, sanctions and economic decoupling. If the US conduct here in contravention of the mutually agreed upon World Trade Organization rules, then China should bring a case to the WTO.

adrian_b 6y ago
It is of course completely legal for the US to apply any kind of economic sanctions they desire against any Chinese company, like Huawei or any others. Nevertheless, it is stupid, for several reasons. One is that there are no real reasons to apply sanctions to the companies selected until now and not apply the same sanctions to absolutely all Chinese companies. As the US themselves say, all Chinese companies must obey the Chinese government and they must assist their military if ordered to, so there is no base for banning commerce with only a selected list of companies, instead of banning all. So the only reason why it can make sense to choose just some companies for the moment is that blocking completely all the commerce with China would hurt more the US than China. However, for the Chinese companies it is clear that these arbitrary sanctions are not correlated with any behavior that they might try to have in order to be liked by the US in order to avoid sanctions, but as long as they remain Chinese companies they may be sanctioned too at any time. So they have a single exit, to never buy again anything from the US but substitute everything with alternatives. Sooner or later they will succeed to do that and then the sanctions would not be efficient any more. The sanctions would have been successful only if there would have been 2 possible lines of action for the Chinese companies and it would have been certain that one direction implies sanctions and the other direction means no sanctions. In that case maybe the US sanctions would have been useful. As it is, they can just annoy the Chinese and force them to give up on buying US products, which cannot be of any benefit for the US. The second reason why the sanctions are stupid, is that they are hurting the Chinese only because they were sudden and unexpected so they have caught the Chinese off-guard, being still dependent of various components that include parts of US provenience. All this has happened only because the US propaganda has repeated during many decades that the global free commerce is good and that everybody should not waste time and money by producing goods that might be purchased from the US either at a lower price or at a higher quality. Now all this formerly very successful US discourse has been exposed as a pack of lies, as it appears to have been just a trap conceived to ensnare other countries to become economically dependent on the US, in order to be vulnerable to economic sanctions. Such a trap can work only once and the time and manner chosen by Trump were not at all the best. Now all countries will try to remove their dependencies on US and the next time when the US might need to have real leverage, for a better reason than now, it will be much less likely to have enough impact.

taklimakan 6y ago

> And where do these people go to protest for their rights and fight for what were theirs? They go to their own government, which is the entity that is supposed to protect them and operate in their interest. If that’s not possible because their government is too much $adjective, that’s on them, not on the US. Peoples have the right to self-determine. The US are “responsible” in the sense that they have played a role in causing certain eventual outcomes, but are obviously not “responsible” in the sense they should do something about those outcomes. They pursue their own foreign policy agenda, like all other nation-states do. Then the targets of that agenda have the opportunity to respond as they see fit, taking into account the relevant implications and welfare of their own citizens. Even more so, causing significant disruption to Huawei and putting the Chinese govt in a tight spot very likely was the goal of the entire thing in the first place. Are the US evil because of this? Maybe. However that’s just how foreign policy strategies work. To think otherwise is just naif, or preposterous.

tylerjwilk00 6y ago

A sovereign nation can't and shouldn't sacrifice itself to save another. It's duty is primarily to care for it's own citizens.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]