8 ms·

Your kid is 7. I'm pretty sure hat I was eating dirt when I was 7. If he has showed you he's interested in programming then go ahead, but make sure you're not p

Your kid is 7. I'm pretty sure hat I was eating dirt when I was 7. If he has showed you he's interested in programming then go ahead, but make sure you're not projecting your own interests onto your kid. It'll lead to resentment in 7 or 8 years.

jgwil2 6y ago
1.5 hours a day seems like an immense amount of time for that age, but if the kid is pushing for it, good for them both.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Kids have a different relationship with time. As a kid who was intrinsically interested in programming, 1.5 hours was a joke and a non-starter. I didn't really feel comfortable doing any coding until I could secure 2-3 hours of time for it, and I would easily spend 8+ hours on the rare days when my parents were otherwise engaged and didn't call me away to do other things.
  - jgwil2 6y ago
    At age seven? Again, if the kid is up for it then great, but I think most kids that age have a hard time committing that amount of time to any single activity.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      It's not commitment if it's voluntary play.
- sjg007 6y ago
  My 7 years olds will spend 1.5 hours minimum playing roblox and minecraft. So... I think designing and building a game with them is a great idea!
  - jgwil2 6y ago
    Fair point. I guess I wasn't much older than seven when I began my Nintendo addiction.
jedberg 6y ago
As a counterpoint, I started programming on my own at 7 with no guidance. Mainly because my IBM PC booted into a BASIC window if you didn't put the DOS disk in. I asked my mom to get my some magazines from the library so I could copy the games in them. So it's not totally odd for a 7 year old (or I was odd, which is quite possible).
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  I started coding when I was 12, which itself was strange. I attended a top 10 engineering program and around half of the cs students came in with 0 programming experience. There's no rush. Let kids be kids, if they want to code great, just don't force it. And don't be upset when they burn out after 1.5 hours of extra work a day.
  - jakupovic 6y ago
    I started programming when I was 19, because that's when I got a computer (more projection) but in any case hard to not project onto your own kids. I think.
- tobinfricke 6y ago
  > I started programming on my own at 7... Mainly because my IBM PC booted into a BASIC window if Same here! Getting started in programming seems so much more daunting these days.
- biztos 6y ago
  I also started about that age. At least in the 70’s I think it was a normal age to expose kids to computers if the family was so inclined, and back then Programming was the only thing you could do with such a gadget so that’s what we did. Ok, I was also competing with my brother who was 10, but still: didn’t feel unusual at all.
- overcast 6y ago
  That's not a counterpoint, that's just reinforcing their point. It's a good idea to open up a child to as many early experiences as possible, but don't project your interests on them. They'll find out what they like on their own.
ed25519FUUU 6y ago
The best thing we can do for our children right now is keep them AWAY FROM SCREENS!
- lmilcin 6y ago
  I spent a lot of time thinking about this. In the end, I would rather be able to influence what my kids are using the screens for than introduce them to screens at a point in their life where I will have no say about what they are doing.
- tomxor 6y ago
  Keep in mind that there is a colossal difference between a screen that boots into a basic interpreter (BBC/Atari/Amiga style) and a screen that boots into iOS/android/youtube/bubblepop-whatever-the-current-attention-grabby-brain-dead-game-of-the-moment-is If my kid is interested in the former I would not stop them, because it's an effective tool to learn about thinking, just like other toys... but the later I'm essentially treating as soft drugs, they ain't using that shit until they are an adult.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    Is TV a drug too then? Just like alcohol, I think there’s nothing unacceptably wrong with it in moderation.
    - centimeter 6y ago
      Yes, absolutely. “Moderation” is a cope used by addicts.
      - jbboehr 6y ago
        “Complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation.”
- Seb-C 6y ago
  Are we back in 1990? Internet and computers are a critical part of everyday's life and will probably grow even more in the future. Childrens should definitely have screens and learn how to use it safely and smartly. When my parents limited my video-game and television time during my teenagerhood (because it "makes you idiot/violent/whatever") it made my life worse, not better. Not being able to talk about the last video-game, movie or event, I had no idea what people were talking about most of the time.
dave_sid 6y ago
I agree completely. I don’t understand the recent trend to believe that we need to get kids into software engineering as soon as they pop out of the birth canal. My friend is an accountant. If he asked me for advice on how to make spreadsheets more fun for his kid I’d think he had something against his kid. In the words of Pink Floyd “Hey! Nerds! Leave them kids alone!”
- lmilcin 6y ago
  > I don’t understand the recent trend You are mistaken about that "recent" part. Parents have always wanted their kids to go to best schools and learn for well paying, prestige jobs. It's just that what is well paying has changed. Why wouldn't I want my kids to be interested in something that will get them good start in life, that could be groundwork for their future careers ASSUMING it is fun for them and they are doing this out of their own volition? That would teach them you can have fun doing science or technology rather than treating is as a necessary evil?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Parents have always wanted their kids to go to best schools Parents haven't even always wanted their kids to go to school.
    - majewsky 6y ago
      > Parents haven't even always been able to send their kids to school. FTFY
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    No worries, you seem to be doing fine. I would justs try, not to put too much pressure on him (or you) to make progress with your project, when he wants to do other things. And in fact, don't forget to motivate him to do other things, like play outside with friends in the actual dirt. Or with you. That is very important for his motoric, social and immune skills, too. In general, just being a kid. With not too much responsibilities and just being able to play freely. 1.5 h of serious work and learning every day do sound a bit much, if that means, it is cut from the outside time with you. You can also combine being outside with the project, by having pen and paper around to discuss and write things that come to mind ... Oh - and of course: have you considered Lego Mindstorms? I had great success with it, teaching nephews the basic of robotics. With something they can touch. And the ability to work with their hands and minds, as this involves also designing of the chassis and the arragnement of sensors, etc. In general, LEGO is very accessible. So I would start with that, before turning into a more serious base of actual robots.
sharker8 6y ago
The irony of this statement is that only someone with strong memories of his or her parents projecting their interests and him or her and later resenting the effects thereof would project a fear like this on total strangers on the internet.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  Well OP is an adult and not my child.
  - sharker8 6y ago
    Ah, interesting misread (this is why I love forums like this). What I was saying was you seem to be reflecting on your childhood and the resentments thereof (a somewhat universal exercise). But your reply was to OP (an adult who thinks he or she can get their kid hooked on programming). However, your reply was a projection of your own resentment of your childhood. Therein lies the irony.
Aeolun 6y ago
I’m already projecting my own interests opinion on my child by virtue of what I choose to give him for his birthday, or allow him to do in general though. I don’t think this is something you can (or should, it’s basically the definition of parenting) avoid as a parent.
- staunch 6y ago
  And beyond environment, it's likely (but not certain) that your child's genetics predispose them to enjoy programming, if you do. From John Carmack Twitter's feed, it sounds like his kid is well on his way to being a great programmer, which should surprise no one.
- ddingus 6y ago
  While I agree, it is equally important to get them a diverse set of experiences. Some people grow up never knowing they have some inclinations and or talents. My childhood had a ton of this stuff. I saw and did a lot! And peers who did not have that diversity sometimes found out later. While it is good to eventually know, earlier is often, but not always better. What I did was a balance. And given my son is in meth hell, am doing again with my granddaughter. That balance was: Take them through things I hope they have an interest in. I had some familiarity and real skill in many of these. I brought in other people where I felt I was not the right person. Take them through some rando things! And frankly, I lived vicariously in this way. Very highly recommended. They may benefit and so may you! Sports was one area where I sucked as a kid, but was able to lean and excel with them as an adult. Neat! Major bonding and memories happen this way. It is kind of terrible sometimes too. (Hold that thought) And finally, take them through things they are interested in, ask for. Now, the terrible experiences? All good, and here is why: Regardless of how we want to shape our kids, they are their own person. Some are strong in all this. I was as a kid, and after major conflict with parents, I was very lucky to have others in my life who understood how people work. Self discovery happens when we have experiences. How we respond, what piques our interest, latent talents, skills, understanding all present themselves during experiences. Nobody knows who they are, until they have opportunity to respond and interact. The more diverse the body of opportunity is, the better of a look we have at who we are. This all moved me as a young person, and as a parent too: I see our job as making sure the basics get done. Competent, well rounded, civic minded, people. When the basics are there, one has all the tools needed to learn how to learn, get along with others, follow instructions and all that basic, important stuff. And our job is to seek those diverse experiences, observe, discuss all that with kids and tease out the good stuff! Most importantly, nobody knows what that stuff actually is! Or maybe we do, to a degree, by inference or various signs. Fine. But I assure you it is nowhere near inclusive enough. Some molding and shaping can and should happen, but some of the canvas gets filled in and we can either weave that into the potential person we are raising, or bodge over it, hoping it all works out. Where they are aware, crave things, themselves looking to contribute to maximizing who they are, parents may see themselves shut out, less relevant when their expectations and efforts do not align well with who their kids are. And in some ways, the die is cast. In other ways it takes shape, and we can plant seeds, and have some influence. My 0.2 having raised very different kids. Good luck. At a minimum, give a shit, respect who they are, try hard to get them through to quality adults and it is hard to go wrong. Just know, despite your efforts, they may be very different people than you may expect or hope for. Celebrate that. People are amazing. Try to amplify the good.
gkfasdfasdf 6y ago
He says his kid asked for programming books. Doesn't seem like it's being forced to me. Could it be that maybe, just maybe, both father and son enjoy programming?
- dorkwood 6y ago
  You may be right, but I wanted to share an anecdote anyway. When I was 8 years old, my dad offered to buy me a go-kart. I think he was concerned I spent too much time indoors, and wanted surprise me with an exciting idea. I knew that my dad didn't have a lot of money, and I also knew he'd be angry if he bought the go-kart and I never used it, so I lied and said I didn't want one. My point is that there's often more going on inside children's brains than we realize, even at a young age. The kid could be asking for that present because he thinks it will make his father happy, for example. Just something to think about.
ransom1538 6y ago
Meh. My kid will leave the house able to program at the pro level. If they resentment me and open a bar more power to them. If the bar fails and they need to program to make ends meet - great. If I was a plumber, my kids would leave my house a certified plumber. If they want to be a lawyer instead - more power to them. Either way my kids leave with a skill.
- ransom1538 6y ago
  What ever you do, give your kid a skill. Let them hate you for it.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Huh. I was going to object but I think you're right. The problems I know with parents forcing kids to do X when they wanted to do Y came from a) pushing X way too far (e.g. forcing a particular university degree), b) refusing to let the kid explore Y when they express interest for it, and c) resenting the kid for choosing Y over X. So as long as one isn't forcing a skill exclusively, and isn't resentful when the skill doesn't stick, I'd say this is a wise approach.
mantap 6y ago
If they as teenagers resent you for teaching them programming then the problem is not that you have taught them too much, the problem is that you haven't taught them the harsh reality of human life. We programmers live especially privileged lives and it's important to not let your kids fall into the misapprehension that the privilege we, and by extension they, enjoy is somehow normal or expected.
fiftyacorn 6y ago
I cant get my kids to tidy their rooms so no chance teaching them to code
- tasuki 6y ago
  Learning to code is way easier than learning to tidy one's room. Many people struggle with the latter their whole life.
gfxgirl 6y ago
I am not a parent but I am a product of parents. I have friends that were pushed to learn a musical instrument. They hated being pushed as a kid but as an adult they are so happy to have been pushed. My father was a musician but his POV was unless I showed an interest he didn't push. I'm jealous of those who got pushed. Similarly I have American friends that speak a 2nd language because their parents forced them to go to language school on the weekends. As kids they hated not being able to go play on Saturdays like their friends but as adults the love speaking the 2nd language. Conversely I have a friend who's parents sent him to language school but around 11 or 12yrs old he complained enough they let him stop. He still regrets it to this day. I have no clue where the balance is but I don't believe it's 100% only do it if the kids want to side of the meter.
- gairhgfqiu 6y ago
  Another data point, one of my friend plays guitar, was part of a few bands. He was pushed by his parents to learn an instrument. He has complained multiple times about what a waste guitar playing been. He has spent his twenties chasing dream of making it as musician. Now he has finally given up on his rock star dreams and working in his career but he is far behind his peers. His family struggles financially right now. He wishes that he was never into music and was focused on more productive stuff. He thinks his parents wanted him to play an instrument because they wanted him to impress their friends. So the lesson is children will find any excuse to complain about their parents.
schwartzworld 6y ago
I honestly believe that programming should be considered a vital skill on par with reading and writing. I'm not saying everybody needs to be able to solve LeetCode or build production ready apps, but anybody who works with a computer could benefit from being able to do a little scripting. Programming is a skill that can be a foundation for thousands of different hobbies. Why do most adults know how to read and do basic math? Because we consider these to the important enough to teach them to children whether they are interested or not. Obviously the thing that differentiates good teachers from bad is the ability to make learning interesting. So in the case of reading, we have books specially written for children of all ages. Programming is a much younger subject than reading, and it's changed a lot in the last few decades. I am happy to provide my kids with the tools I had available, but honestly I never got good enough at BASIC to build anything useful and LOGO was fun but again, useless. Scratch and other modern kid-focused languages are much better for the job.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  Sure, but are 7 year olds ready? As this thread has shown some clearly are, but in my experience he vast majority are not. Why not wait until middle school instead of pushing them toward something they aren't ready for. It would be like teaching an 11 year old calculus.
  - schwartzworld 6y ago
    Are they ready for what? I had no problem instructing a turtle around to draw a line on a screen with Logo or building a number guessing game. Nobody is talking about teaching 7 year olds Haskell. To go with your calculus example, we don't teach 11 year olds calculus, but we do teach them things that they will need to know later in order to do calculus. We expect them to practice those skills again and again until they are easy. You expose your kids to things, and hope they'll like some of them. That's just how it works. You just have to hope that they end up liking some of those things you've exposed them to, or at least gaining enough from them that was worthwhile. I know I got dropped off at soccer class plenty of times, even though I fucking hate soccer
1_player 6y ago
I tried to read the K&R C book when I was 9. It went over my head hard. I tried again at 13 and something started to stick. The brain evolves really quickly at that age, at 7 you're still trying to learn not to eat that dog poop you found in your garden.

jgwil2 6y ago

1.5 hours a day seems like an immense amount of time for that age, but if the kid is pushing for it, good for them both.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
Kids have a different relationship with time. As a kid who was intrinsically interested in programming, 1.5 hours was a joke and a non-starter. I didn't really feel comfortable doing any coding until I could secure 2-3 hours of time for it, and I would easily spend 8+ hours on the rare days when my parents were otherwise engaged and didn't call me away to do other things.
- jgwil2 6y ago
  At age seven? Again, if the kid is up for it then great, but I think most kids that age have a hard time committing that amount of time to any single activity.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    It's not commitment if it's voluntary play.
sjg007 6y ago
My 7 years olds will spend 1.5 hours minimum playing roblox and minecraft. So... I think designing and building a game with them is a great idea!
- jgwil2 6y ago
  Fair point. I guess I wasn't much older than seven when I began my Nintendo addiction.

jedberg 6y ago

As a counterpoint, I started programming on my own at 7 with no guidance. Mainly because my IBM PC booted into a BASIC window if you didn't put the DOS disk in. I asked my mom to get my some magazines from the library so I could copy the games in them. So it's not totally odd for a 7 year old (or I was odd, which is quite possible).

colinmhayes 6y ago
I started coding when I was 12, which itself was strange. I attended a top 10 engineering program and around half of the cs students came in with 0 programming experience. There's no rush. Let kids be kids, if they want to code great, just don't force it. And don't be upset when they burn out after 1.5 hours of extra work a day.
- jakupovic 6y ago
  I started programming when I was 19, because that's when I got a computer (more projection) but in any case hard to not project onto your own kids. I think.
tobinfricke 6y ago
> I started programming on my own at 7... Mainly because my IBM PC booted into a BASIC window if Same here! Getting started in programming seems so much more daunting these days.
biztos 6y ago
I also started about that age. At least in the 70’s I think it was a normal age to expose kids to computers if the family was so inclined, and back then Programming was the only thing you could do with such a gadget so that’s what we did. Ok, I was also competing with my brother who was 10, but still: didn’t feel unusual at all.
overcast 6y ago
That's not a counterpoint, that's just reinforcing their point. It's a good idea to open up a child to as many early experiences as possible, but don't project your interests on them. They'll find out what they like on their own.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago

The best thing we can do for our children right now is keep them AWAY FROM SCREENS!

lmilcin 6y ago
I spent a lot of time thinking about this. In the end, I would rather be able to influence what my kids are using the screens for than introduce them to screens at a point in their life where I will have no say about what they are doing.
tomxor 6y ago
Keep in mind that there is a colossal difference between a screen that boots into a basic interpreter (BBC/Atari/Amiga style) and a screen that boots into iOS/android/youtube/bubblepop-whatever-the-current-attention-grabby-brain-dead-game-of-the-moment-is If my kid is interested in the former I would not stop them, because it's an effective tool to learn about thinking, just like other toys... but the later I'm essentially treating as soft drugs, they ain't using that shit until they are an adult.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  Is TV a drug too then? Just like alcohol, I think there’s nothing unacceptably wrong with it in moderation.
  - centimeter 6y ago
    Yes, absolutely. “Moderation” is a cope used by addicts.
    - jbboehr 6y ago
      “Complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation.”
Seb-C 6y ago
Are we back in 1990? Internet and computers are a critical part of everyday's life and will probably grow even more in the future. Childrens should definitely have screens and learn how to use it safely and smartly. When my parents limited my video-game and television time during my teenagerhood (because it "makes you idiot/violent/whatever") it made my life worse, not better. Not being able to talk about the last video-game, movie or event, I had no idea what people were talking about most of the time.

dave_sid 6y ago

I agree completely. I don’t understand the recent trend to believe that we need to get kids into software engineering as soon as they pop out of the birth canal. My friend is an accountant. If he asked me for advice on how to make spreadsheets more fun for his kid I’d think he had something against his kid. In the words of Pink Floyd “Hey! Nerds! Leave them kids alone!”

lmilcin 6y ago
> I don’t understand the recent trend You are mistaken about that "recent" part. Parents have always wanted their kids to go to best schools and learn for well paying, prestige jobs. It's just that what is well paying has changed. Why wouldn't I want my kids to be interested in something that will get them good start in life, that could be groundwork for their future careers ASSUMING it is fun for them and they are doing this out of their own volition? That would teach them you can have fun doing science or technology rather than treating is as a necessary evil?
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Parents have always wanted their kids to go to best schools Parents haven't even always wanted their kids to go to school.
  - majewsky 6y ago
    > Parents haven't even always been able to send their kids to school. FTFY
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  No worries, you seem to be doing fine. I would justs try, not to put too much pressure on him (or you) to make progress with your project, when he wants to do other things. And in fact, don't forget to motivate him to do other things, like play outside with friends in the actual dirt. Or with you. That is very important for his motoric, social and immune skills, too. In general, just being a kid. With not too much responsibilities and just being able to play freely. 1.5 h of serious work and learning every day do sound a bit much, if that means, it is cut from the outside time with you. You can also combine being outside with the project, by having pen and paper around to discuss and write things that come to mind ... Oh - and of course: have you considered Lego Mindstorms? I had great success with it, teaching nephews the basic of robotics. With something they can touch. And the ability to work with their hands and minds, as this involves also designing of the chassis and the arragnement of sensors, etc. In general, LEGO is very accessible. So I would start with that, before turning into a more serious base of actual robots.

sharker8 6y ago

The irony of this statement is that only someone with strong memories of his or her parents projecting their interests and him or her and later resenting the effects thereof would project a fear like this on total strangers on the internet.

colinmhayes 6y ago
Well OP is an adult and not my child.
- sharker8 6y ago
  Ah, interesting misread (this is why I love forums like this). What I was saying was you seem to be reflecting on your childhood and the resentments thereof (a somewhat universal exercise). But your reply was to OP (an adult who thinks he or she can get their kid hooked on programming). However, your reply was a projection of your own resentment of your childhood. Therein lies the irony.

Aeolun 6y ago

I’m already projecting my own interests opinion on my child by virtue of what I choose to give him for his birthday, or allow him to do in general though. I don’t think this is something you can (or should, it’s basically the definition of parenting) avoid as a parent.

staunch 6y ago
And beyond environment, it's likely (but not certain) that your child's genetics predispose them to enjoy programming, if you do. From John Carmack Twitter's feed, it sounds like his kid is well on his way to being a great programmer, which should surprise no one.
ddingus 6y ago
While I agree, it is equally important to get them a diverse set of experiences. Some people grow up never knowing they have some inclinations and or talents. My childhood had a ton of this stuff. I saw and did a lot! And peers who did not have that diversity sometimes found out later. While it is good to eventually know, earlier is often, but not always better. What I did was a balance. And given my son is in meth hell, am doing again with my granddaughter. That balance was: Take them through things I hope they have an interest in. I had some familiarity and real skill in many of these. I brought in other people where I felt I was not the right person. Take them through some rando things! And frankly, I lived vicariously in this way. Very highly recommended. They may benefit and so may you! Sports was one area where I sucked as a kid, but was able to lean and excel with them as an adult. Neat! Major bonding and memories happen this way. It is kind of terrible sometimes too. (Hold that thought) And finally, take them through things they are interested in, ask for. Now, the terrible experiences? All good, and here is why: Regardless of how we want to shape our kids, they are their own person. Some are strong in all this. I was as a kid, and after major conflict with parents, I was very lucky to have others in my life who understood how people work. Self discovery happens when we have experiences. How we respond, what piques our interest, latent talents, skills, understanding all present themselves during experiences. Nobody knows who they are, until they have opportunity to respond and interact. The more diverse the body of opportunity is, the better of a look we have at who we are. This all moved me as a young person, and as a parent too: I see our job as making sure the basics get done. Competent, well rounded, civic minded, people. When the basics are there, one has all the tools needed to learn how to learn, get along with others, follow instructions and all that basic, important stuff. And our job is to seek those diverse experiences, observe, discuss all that with kids and tease out the good stuff! Most importantly, nobody knows what that stuff actually is! Or maybe we do, to a degree, by inference or various signs. Fine. But I assure you it is nowhere near inclusive enough. Some molding and shaping can and should happen, but some of the canvas gets filled in and we can either weave that into the potential person we are raising, or bodge over it, hoping it all works out. Where they are aware, crave things, themselves looking to contribute to maximizing who they are, parents may see themselves shut out, less relevant when their expectations and efforts do not align well with who their kids are. And in some ways, the die is cast. In other ways it takes shape, and we can plant seeds, and have some influence. My 0.2 having raised very different kids. Good luck. At a minimum, give a shit, respect who they are, try hard to get them through to quality adults and it is hard to go wrong. Just know, despite your efforts, they may be very different people than you may expect or hope for. Celebrate that. People are amazing. Try to amplify the good.

gkfasdfasdf 6y ago

He says his kid asked for programming books. Doesn't seem like it's being forced to me. Could it be that maybe, just maybe, both father and son enjoy programming?

dorkwood 6y ago
You may be right, but I wanted to share an anecdote anyway. When I was 8 years old, my dad offered to buy me a go-kart. I think he was concerned I spent too much time indoors, and wanted surprise me with an exciting idea. I knew that my dad didn't have a lot of money, and I also knew he'd be angry if he bought the go-kart and I never used it, so I lied and said I didn't want one. My point is that there's often more going on inside children's brains than we realize, even at a young age. The kid could be asking for that present because he thinks it will make his father happy, for example. Just something to think about.

ransom1538 6y ago

Meh. My kid will leave the house able to program at the pro level. If they resentment me and open a bar more power to them. If the bar fails and they need to program to make ends meet - great. If I was a plumber, my kids would leave my house a certified plumber. If they want to be a lawyer instead - more power to them. Either way my kids leave with a skill.

ransom1538 6y ago
What ever you do, give your kid a skill. Let them hate you for it.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
Huh. I was going to object but I think you're right. The problems I know with parents forcing kids to do X when they wanted to do Y came from a) pushing X way too far (e.g. forcing a particular university degree), b) refusing to let the kid explore Y when they express interest for it, and c) resenting the kid for choosing Y over X. So as long as one isn't forcing a skill exclusively, and isn't resentful when the skill doesn't stick, I'd say this is a wise approach.

mantap 6y ago

If they as teenagers resent you for teaching them programming then the problem is not that you have taught them too much, the problem is that you haven't taught them the harsh reality of human life. We programmers live especially privileged lives and it's important to not let your kids fall into the misapprehension that the privilege we, and by extension they, enjoy is somehow normal or expected.

fiftyacorn 6y ago

I cant get my kids to tidy their rooms so no chance teaching them to code

tasuki 6y ago
Learning to code is way easier than learning to tidy one's room. Many people struggle with the latter their whole life.

gfxgirl 6y ago

I am not a parent but I am a product of parents. I have friends that were pushed to learn a musical instrument. They hated being pushed as a kid but as an adult they are so happy to have been pushed. My father was a musician but his POV was unless I showed an interest he didn't push. I'm jealous of those who got pushed. Similarly I have American friends that speak a 2nd language because their parents forced them to go to language school on the weekends. As kids they hated not being able to go play on Saturdays like their friends but as adults the love speaking the 2nd language. Conversely I have a friend who's parents sent him to language school but around 11 or 12yrs old he complained enough they let him stop. He still regrets it to this day. I have no clue where the balance is but I don't believe it's 100% only do it if the kids want to side of the meter.

gairhgfqiu 6y ago
Another data point, one of my friend plays guitar, was part of a few bands. He was pushed by his parents to learn an instrument. He has complained multiple times about what a waste guitar playing been. He has spent his twenties chasing dream of making it as musician. Now he has finally given up on his rock star dreams and working in his career but he is far behind his peers. His family struggles financially right now. He wishes that he was never into music and was focused on more productive stuff. He thinks his parents wanted him to play an instrument because they wanted him to impress their friends. So the lesson is children will find any excuse to complain about their parents.

schwartzworld 6y ago

I honestly believe that programming should be considered a vital skill on par with reading and writing. I'm not saying everybody needs to be able to solve LeetCode or build production ready apps, but anybody who works with a computer could benefit from being able to do a little scripting. Programming is a skill that can be a foundation for thousands of different hobbies. Why do most adults know how to read and do basic math? Because we consider these to the important enough to teach them to children whether they are interested or not. Obviously the thing that differentiates good teachers from bad is the ability to make learning interesting. So in the case of reading, we have books specially written for children of all ages. Programming is a much younger subject than reading, and it's changed a lot in the last few decades. I am happy to provide my kids with the tools I had available, but honestly I never got good enough at BASIC to build anything useful and LOGO was fun but again, useless. Scratch and other modern kid-focused languages are much better for the job.

colinmhayes 6y ago
Sure, but are 7 year olds ready? As this thread has shown some clearly are, but in my experience he vast majority are not. Why not wait until middle school instead of pushing them toward something they aren't ready for. It would be like teaching an 11 year old calculus.
- schwartzworld 6y ago
  Are they ready for what? I had no problem instructing a turtle around to draw a line on a screen with Logo or building a number guessing game. Nobody is talking about teaching 7 year olds Haskell. To go with your calculus example, we don't teach 11 year olds calculus, but we do teach them things that they will need to know later in order to do calculus. We expect them to practice those skills again and again until they are easy. You expose your kids to things, and hope they'll like some of them. That's just how it works. You just have to hope that they end up liking some of those things you've exposed them to, or at least gaining enough from them that was worthwhile. I know I got dropped off at soccer class plenty of times, even though I fucking hate soccer

1_player 6y ago

I tried to read the K&R C book when I was 9. It went over my head hard. I tried again at 13 and something started to stick. The brain evolves really quickly at that age, at 7 you're still trying to learn not to eat that dog poop you found in your garden.