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> Am I naive to still hope for more peace in the world? Worth noting that this is entirely the U.S. not wanting peace, not Iran, hence the EU disagrees with th

> Am I naive to still hope for more peace in the world? Worth noting that this is entirely the U.S. not wanting peace, not Iran, hence the EU disagrees with the sanctions regime.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
It's not entirely the US. Unfortunately there's other people in the region who really don't want anyone being friends with Iran who we'd rather be friends with. Back when it looked like relations might thaw during Obama every big business was foaming at the mouth over the opportunity to make a buck selling things in a new market. There's a lot of very powerful people who's ideal vision of places like Iran, Cuba, North Korea, etc involves everyday citizens using their iPhones to daytrade on the American stock exchanges over a Verizon tower while driving their Chevrolet trucks, smoking Marlboros and wearing Nikes
- visarga 6y ago
  That's not so bad actually.
  - Fazel94 6y ago
    If only that was possible and sustainable :)
  - sa-mao 6y ago
    Except maybe the smoking part, which is as you might know bad for health.
    - backing 6y ago
      What are your sources?
      - ineedasername 6y ago
        What are your sources for the expectation that sources should be provided?
Siira 6y ago
As an Iranian, you're quite uninformed here. The Islamic Republic does a lot of small-scale aggression (e.g., they just confiscated a Korean ship on free waters), and they lead many proxy militias. They also pursue nuclear weapons. Their handling of domestic affairs is also bullshit (e.g., they lured Amadnews's reporter, Zam, to Iraq and then kidnapped and executed him.).
- nostrademons 6y ago
  It's almost like the people of the world should unite in throwing out their leaders. Get rid of all the folks at the top that persist in bad behavior so the rest of us can code in peace. ...except it didn't really work all that well for the French in 1789, or the Chinese in 1911, or the Russians in 1917. Executing their corrupt leaders just led to more dictatorial ones taking their place. Maybe it's more power corrupts than corrupt people seeking power.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    It didn’t work well with the Iranians in 1977–1979 either. Originally the overthrow of the Shah was supported by a wide variety of factions in society, including secular ones, and it may well have led to a secular country. But once there was a power vacuum, Khomeini returned from exile in France and managed to install the present Islamic republic. It sort of, kind of worked with Romania in 1989, though. But in spite of massive popular discontent with the dictator, the actual overthrow of Ceausescu was largely the regime’s elites seeking to get rid of the boss so that they could rule the roost themselves. That Romania eventually became a democratic European nation feels like a happy accident.
    - marczellm 6y ago
      Are you Romanian? If you think Romania is or should be a democratic European nation, can you offer your perspective on what could stop the ongoing verbal, legal and sometimes physical harassment of the Hungarian minority? Some of which is described in the last paragraphs of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanianization#Recent_events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanianization#Recent_events
ucm_edge 6y ago
Iran just seized a South Korean oil tanker yesterday to give it civilian hostages as leverage in on going negotiations with South Korea, a country that has never engaged in any form of violence against Iran.
- orhmeh09 6y ago
  How do you know they seized it for leverage? Iran says it seized the ship because it was polluting the area.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    If that was more than an obvious propaganda smoke screen then Iran wouldn't hold the crew hostage. Iran has also failed to provide evidence for their accusation and did not provide either a warning or opportunity to remediate the claimed polution. Evidence for a crime is of course generally considered a requirement. They also have a strong recent history of this sort of activity.
vorpalhex 6y ago
Well, Iran supporting North Korea, funneling arms and resources to terrorists, and launching missiles at us probably didn't help. The EU disagreement is specifically with the harshness of the sanctions - they still believe Iran should be sanctioned, just not as harshly.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > funneling arms and resources to terrorists You do realize the U.S. does that on a regular basis right? So do its Gulf Wahhabi allies in the region.
  - flyinglizard 6y ago
    This is why those discussions from a morally neutral standpoint are a waste of time. It’s entirely reasonable for one side to punish the others for having nukes while having those itself. We are not some impartial aliens surveying the planet, each of us is affected by these things.
    - newen 6y ago
      You mean politically neutral standpoint, not morally neutral standpoint.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - drstewart 6y ago
    And I don't think anyone would complain if Iran wants to sanction the US
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    So you think that makes it okay for Iran to do it? Hypocrisy doesn't make someone else's bad actions acceptable.
tathougies 6y ago
I mean Iran threatens every month or so to literally bomb Israel off the map. Some countries are okay with that kind of rhetoric. In general, the US is not.
- avip 6y ago
  Now they could open an issue for that. "#73: Israel seems to still exist on some maps"
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    Maybe, if they decide to use GitHub as a versioning system for their policy & geopolitical strategy. Perhaps a bunch of pull requests for "don't build nuclear weapons" would get approved, and #73 could be closed as "not a bug"
- miracle2k 6y ago
  They do not.
ineedasername 6y ago
The US is hardly the sole aggressor here. Iran has conducted many provocations against others, not least of which is directly contributing to destabilizing forces within other countries in the region and relentless pursuit of a nuclear weapons program.

> Am I naive to still hope for more peace in the world? Worth noting that this is entirely the U.S. not wanting peace, not Iran, hence the EU disagrees with the sanctions regime.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

It's not entirely the US. Unfortunately there's other people in the region who really don't want anyone being friends with Iran who we'd rather be friends with. Back when it looked like relations might thaw during Obama every big business was foaming at the mouth over the opportunity to make a buck selling things in a new market. There's a lot of very powerful people who's ideal vision of places like Iran, Cuba, North Korea, etc involves everyday citizens using their iPhones to daytrade on the American stock exchanges over a Verizon tower while driving their Chevrolet trucks, smoking Marlboros and wearing Nikes

visarga 6y ago
That's not so bad actually.
- Fazel94 6y ago
  If only that was possible and sustainable :)
- sa-mao 6y ago
  Except maybe the smoking part, which is as you might know bad for health.
  - backing 6y ago
    What are your sources?
    - ineedasername 6y ago
      What are your sources for the expectation that sources should be provided?

Siira 6y ago

As an Iranian, you're quite uninformed here. The Islamic Republic does a lot of small-scale aggression (e.g., they just confiscated a Korean ship on free waters), and they lead many proxy militias. They also pursue nuclear weapons. Their handling of domestic affairs is also bullshit (e.g., they lured Amadnews's reporter, Zam, to Iraq and then kidnapped and executed him.).

nostrademons 6y ago
It's almost like the people of the world should unite in throwing out their leaders. Get rid of all the folks at the top that persist in bad behavior so the rest of us can code in peace. ...except it didn't really work all that well for the French in 1789, or the Chinese in 1911, or the Russians in 1917. Executing their corrupt leaders just led to more dictatorial ones taking their place. Maybe it's more power corrupts than corrupt people seeking power.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  It didn’t work well with the Iranians in 1977–1979 either. Originally the overthrow of the Shah was supported by a wide variety of factions in society, including secular ones, and it may well have led to a secular country. But once there was a power vacuum, Khomeini returned from exile in France and managed to install the present Islamic republic. It sort of, kind of worked with Romania in 1989, though. But in spite of massive popular discontent with the dictator, the actual overthrow of Ceausescu was largely the regime’s elites seeking to get rid of the boss so that they could rule the roost themselves. That Romania eventually became a democratic European nation feels like a happy accident.
  - marczellm 6y ago
    Are you Romanian? If you think Romania is or should be a democratic European nation, can you offer your perspective on what could stop the ongoing verbal, legal and sometimes physical harassment of the Hungarian minority? Some of which is described in the last paragraphs of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanianization#Recent_events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanianization#Recent_events

ucm_edge 6y ago

Iran just seized a South Korean oil tanker yesterday to give it civilian hostages as leverage in on going negotiations with South Korea, a country that has never engaged in any form of violence against Iran.

orhmeh09 6y ago
How do you know they seized it for leverage? Iran says it seized the ship because it was polluting the area.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ineedasername 6y ago
  If that was more than an obvious propaganda smoke screen then Iran wouldn't hold the crew hostage. Iran has also failed to provide evidence for their accusation and did not provide either a warning or opportunity to remediate the claimed polution. Evidence for a crime is of course generally considered a requirement. They also have a strong recent history of this sort of activity.

vorpalhex 6y ago

Well, Iran supporting North Korea, funneling arms and resources to terrorists, and launching missiles at us probably didn't help. The EU disagreement is specifically with the harshness of the sanctions - they still believe Iran should be sanctioned, just not as harshly.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
> funneling arms and resources to terrorists You do realize the U.S. does that on a regular basis right? So do its Gulf Wahhabi allies in the region.
- flyinglizard 6y ago
  This is why those discussions from a morally neutral standpoint are a waste of time. It’s entirely reasonable for one side to punish the others for having nukes while having those itself. We are not some impartial aliens surveying the planet, each of us is affected by these things.
  - newen 6y ago
    You mean politically neutral standpoint, not morally neutral standpoint.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- drstewart 6y ago
  And I don't think anyone would complain if Iran wants to sanction the US
- ineedasername 6y ago
  So you think that makes it okay for Iran to do it? Hypocrisy doesn't make someone else's bad actions acceptable.

tathougies 6y ago

I mean Iran threatens every month or so to literally bomb Israel off the map. Some countries are okay with that kind of rhetoric. In general, the US is not.

avip 6y ago
Now they could open an issue for that. "#73: Israel seems to still exist on some maps"
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Maybe, if they decide to use GitHub as a versioning system for their policy & geopolitical strategy. Perhaps a bunch of pull requests for "don't build nuclear weapons" would get approved, and #73 could be closed as "not a bug"
miracle2k 6y ago
They do not.

ineedasername 6y ago

The US is hardly the sole aggressor here. Iran has conducted many provocations against others, not least of which is directly contributing to destabilizing forces within other countries in the region and relentless pursuit of a nuclear weapons program.