6 ms·

Wow! That is a very big deal!!! Almost all of the Apps I have on my Android phone are installed from F-Droid, and I try to avoid installing any Apps from other

by drKarl 6y ago

Wow! That is a very big deal!!! Almost all of the Apps I have on my Android phone are installed from F-Droid, and I try to avoid installing any Apps from other sources, exceptions force upon me by my social circle, like WhatsApp. I have a PinePhone but it is not yet ready as a daily driver, and also the difference in hardware performance between my Android phone (which I bought this year) and PinePhone (or even Librem) is abismal. I wish there was at least one (or many) linux phone ready to be a daily driver and with hardware comparable to modern Android phones (or iPhones), but unfortunately that is not yet the case, although the community has made a massive effort this year to advance the state of linux on phones, at least for PinePhone... I use a MacBook for work and same thing, almost all the apps I have I installed using homebrew (and the UI apps, with brew cask) EDIT: I see that, at least for now, it's optional and you can un-enroll, which is good.

riedel 6y ago
The problem will start with such offerings only if third parties (like employers or banks) demand turning this on. The patronizing of users that started with saftynet is horrifying. I think it will become crucial that some commercialy relevant group uses non play store content. Otherwise the affordance to use non main stream stuff will become higher and higher.
- judge2020 6y ago
  I mean it makes sense. The employer requires you to only trust Google-approved apps since something like an evil maid (or mugging, or blackmail, etc) attack on an unlocked phone is part of their threat model.
  - velosol 6y ago
    And it seems reasonable for an employer. What about banks? The argument I'm coming up with just isn't as compelling for no other reason than I'm 'only' risking my money, not corporate access.
- paulie_a 6y ago
  If the employer demands that then they can provide me the phone
- bitwize 6y ago
  I have a strict "if you want me to use a phone for work, then issue me a work phone" policy. No, I will not install your MDM app on my personal phone, because that is tantamount to surrendering my phone to the company.
  - throwaways885 6y ago
    My Android's work profile has reasonable isolation. AFAIK my employer can't see or erase anything personal.
jolmg 6y ago
> I have a PinePhone but it is not yet ready as a daily driver, and also the difference in hardware performance between my Android phone (which I bought this year) and PinePhone (or even Librem) is abismal. I don't know about it being so much a hardware performance issue, rather than a software optimization issue. Personally, I don't think I need much performance, but I have had issues unlocking my Pinephone because the lockscreen seems to have a hard time keeping track of my finger as I slide it or press the keypad buttons. I've also had a number of kernel panics in the few times that I've used it (I got it just recently). For the Pinephone to be my daily driver I just need to be able to run Whatsapp on it (so run an Android emulator with access to the SIM card, I imagine; haven't tried) and take real 5MP images. That's all I really need to switch the SIM card and leave my Android phone at home. It can even drop calls and I won't really care (not that it does; I haven't tried). EDIT: I see I misread a bit and thought you meant its low performance prevented its use as a daily driver. I don't think it makes sense for linux phones to be offered with more expensive hardware until the software catches up to enable their use as daily drivers for more people. I think we're at a stage where the buyers are primarily people that are looking to possibly contribute to the software to get it to that point. Being a cheap phone is important for that.
- yoavm 6y ago
  Your Whatsapp running on an Android emulator doesn't need to have any access to the SIM card. You only need to have the SIM card on some phone so you can enter the code you're receiving by textwhen signing in for the first time. You can then use a bridge to connect it to Matrix and chat using Whatsapp from any Matrix client.
  - jolmg 6y ago
    Oh wow! Thank you so much for the tip! I've never used Matrix, but I'll look into that! Not having to depend on the Whatsapp client sounds like a dream.
input_sh 6y ago
> EDIT: I see that, at least for now, it's optional and you can un-enroll, which is good. It's always going to be optional. It's their solution for high-risk users (think: journalists, whistleblowers, and similar), it's not meant to be for everyone. Disclaimer: No Google affiliation, but I've tested the program a long time ago before it was available to everyone.
- bartvk 6y ago
  > It's their solution for high-risk users (think: journalists, whistleblowers, and similar) Or people with bitcoin wallets, of which I assume there's going to be more and more.
h_anna_h 6y ago
Afaik, if you disable it you basically let everyone spam you with password reset notifications.
rstuart4133 6y ago
> Almost all of the Apps I have on my Android phone are installed from F-Droid ... I see that, at least for now, it's optional and you can un-enroll, which is good. I can't see it going away. Google uses it to fend off monopoly accusations, viz you aren't locked in, you can always use another app store. Apple doesn't, and they are in a much more threatening territory when it comes to anti-trust law suites against their app store because of it. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/06/house-antitrust-subcommittee-apple-has-monopoly-power.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/06/house-antitrust-subcommittee... Google has far worse anti-trust problems than Apple in general because they own 80% of some markets, and is being reminded of it repeatedly by ongoing law suites being brought in various countries. https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/12/16/22179085/google-antitrust-monopoly-state-lawsuit-ad-tech-search-facebook https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/12/16/22179085/google-antitr... But for Google Play they have a free pass, and I don't think they aren't likely to give it up any time soon.

by drKarl 6y ago

riedel 6y ago

The problem will start with such offerings only if third parties (like employers or banks) demand turning this on. The patronizing of users that started with saftynet is horrifying. I think it will become crucial that some commercialy relevant group uses non play store content. Otherwise the affordance to use non main stream stuff will become higher and higher.

judge2020 6y ago
I mean it makes sense. The employer requires you to only trust Google-approved apps since something like an evil maid (or mugging, or blackmail, etc) attack on an unlocked phone is part of their threat model.
- velosol 6y ago
  And it seems reasonable for an employer. What about banks? The argument I'm coming up with just isn't as compelling for no other reason than I'm 'only' risking my money, not corporate access.
paulie_a 6y ago
If the employer demands that then they can provide me the phone
bitwize 6y ago
I have a strict "if you want me to use a phone for work, then issue me a work phone" policy. No, I will not install your MDM app on my personal phone, because that is tantamount to surrendering my phone to the company.
- throwaways885 6y ago
  My Android's work profile has reasonable isolation. AFAIK my employer can't see or erase anything personal.

jolmg 6y ago

> I have a PinePhone but it is not yet ready as a daily driver, and also the difference in hardware performance between my Android phone (which I bought this year) and PinePhone (or even Librem) is abismal. I don't know about it being so much a hardware performance issue, rather than a software optimization issue. Personally, I don't think I need much performance, but I have had issues unlocking my Pinephone because the lockscreen seems to have a hard time keeping track of my finger as I slide it or press the keypad buttons. I've also had a number of kernel panics in the few times that I've used it (I got it just recently). For the Pinephone to be my daily driver I just need to be able to run Whatsapp on it (so run an Android emulator with access to the SIM card, I imagine; haven't tried) and take real 5MP images. That's all I really need to switch the SIM card and leave my Android phone at home. It can even drop calls and I won't really care (not that it does; I haven't tried). EDIT: I see I misread a bit and thought you meant its low performance prevented its use as a daily driver. I don't think it makes sense for linux phones to be offered with more expensive hardware until the software catches up to enable their use as daily drivers for more people. I think we're at a stage where the buyers are primarily people that are looking to possibly contribute to the software to get it to that point. Being a cheap phone is important for that.

yoavm 6y ago
Your Whatsapp running on an Android emulator doesn't need to have any access to the SIM card. You only need to have the SIM card on some phone so you can enter the code you're receiving by textwhen signing in for the first time. You can then use a bridge to connect it to Matrix and chat using Whatsapp from any Matrix client.
- jolmg 6y ago
  Oh wow! Thank you so much for the tip! I've never used Matrix, but I'll look into that! Not having to depend on the Whatsapp client sounds like a dream.

input_sh 6y ago

> EDIT: I see that, at least for now, it's optional and you can un-enroll, which is good. It's always going to be optional. It's their solution for high-risk users (think: journalists, whistleblowers, and similar), it's not meant to be for everyone. Disclaimer: No Google affiliation, but I've tested the program a long time ago before it was available to everyone.

bartvk 6y ago
> It's their solution for high-risk users (think: journalists, whistleblowers, and similar) Or people with bitcoin wallets, of which I assume there's going to be more and more.

h_anna_h 6y ago

Afaik, if you disable it you basically let everyone spam you with password reset notifications.

rstuart4133 6y ago

> Almost all of the Apps I have on my Android phone are installed from F-Droid ... I see that, at least for now, it's optional and you can un-enroll, which is good. I can't see it going away. Google uses it to fend off monopoly accusations, viz you aren't locked in, you can always use another app store. Apple doesn't, and they are in a much more threatening territory when it comes to anti-trust law suites against their app store because of it. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/06/house-antitrust-subcommittee-apple-has-monopoly-power.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/06/house-antitrust-subcommittee... Google has far worse anti-trust problems than Apple in general because they own 80% of some markets, and is being reminded of it repeatedly by ongoing law suites being brought in various countries. https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/12/16/22179085/google-antitrust-monopoly-state-lawsuit-ad-tech-search-facebook https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/12/16/22179085/google-antitr... But for Google Play they have a free pass, and I don't think they aren't likely to give it up any time soon.