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There’s debate on how much masks reduce spread, and obviously a lot of variation in effectiveness given wildly different materials and design for masks that are

There’s debate on how much masks reduce spread, and obviously a lot of variation in effectiveness given wildly different materials and design for masks that are not designed to be protective. But I’ve never heard of any serious scientific debate about their helping to some reasonable degree. With possibly high benefits and very low cost(in dollars and in freedom as compared to other measures) wearing masks while indoors in public seem like a no brainer. There are probably issues with how much people obsess over them though. I feel like people get a false sense of protection. People tend to stand right next to you in line when masks are required rather than keeping some distance!

djsumdog 6y ago
> and very low cost The costs are high. Estimates show millions, if not over a billion, of these things will make their way into oceans. That's massive environmental damage: https://nypost.com/2020/12/28/more-than-1-5b-masks-will-pollute-oceans-this-year-report/ https://nypost.com/2020/12/28/more-than-1-5b-masks-will-poll... They have a high social cost. They are causing fear and adding stigma. People are judging one another for mask usage out of pure religion reasoning. If they are not very effective, we've watched State mandates around the world cause a new ideological divide between people. pro-Mask people literally have voiced threats of violence against those who do not see their benefit. They hide our facial expressions and our primary way of seeing each other. Long before COVID, medical masks were used at Gitmo as one of the many means of dehumanization and torture: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=masks+gitmo&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=masks+gitmo&iar=images&iax=images&... Human rights groups have long been critical of the full Burqa as a way to dehumanize women. There is a psychological effect of not being able to see people's faces, and therefor not seeing them as human. There are people who have PTSD from trauma, rape or sexual abuse who can not wear a mask without panic attacks. I know such people who cannot go into stores or restaurants and must order everything online. There are exceptions in the law, but most stores will not allow of it and the shame of walking around in a store without a mask where 99% of people do also induces panic. Masks have a cost. It is not low. It is not near zero. It is much higher than you think it is.
- Daishiman 6y ago
  This is the stupidest comment I have read in this thread.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    The fact that you cannot see any of these problems or understand how they are fracturing people and groups all around the world is part of the problem itself. These are all highly legitimate concerns you just dismiss with a whimsical "that's stupid." People who just accept masks and advocate for them immediately without question are also very likely to murder the person in the other room in the Stanley Milgram experiments. That should concern you and everybody.
    - Daishiman 6y ago
      No, I have personally seen each and every problem, and most everyone has seen them prima facie, and it boggles my mind how even so there can be a value judgement against masks.
      - djsumdog 6y ago
        https://rationalground.com/post-thanksgiving-mask-charts-still-no-evidence-that-masks-work/ https://rationalground.com/post-thanksgiving-mask-charts-sti... https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  This entire post is a disgusting and ridiculous way to to rationalize the selfish behavior of not wearing a mask in public. There is no reasonable person that would think these things in isolation. I feel gross after reading this nonsense. Knowing that someone would try this hard to equate genuine travesties with putting fabric over your mouth and nose to protect others to advance some separate agenda when more than 1 out of every 1000 people in the US is already dead from covid is a grave disappointment.
- 6y ago

djsumdog 6y ago

> and very low cost The costs are high. Estimates show millions, if not over a billion, of these things will make their way into oceans. That's massive environmental damage: https://nypost.com/2020/12/28/more-than-1-5b-masks-will-pollute-oceans-this-year-report/ https://nypost.com/2020/12/28/more-than-1-5b-masks-will-poll... They have a high social cost. They are causing fear and adding stigma. People are judging one another for mask usage out of pure religion reasoning. If they are not very effective, we've watched State mandates around the world cause a new ideological divide between people. pro-Mask people literally have voiced threats of violence against those who do not see their benefit. They hide our facial expressions and our primary way of seeing each other. Long before COVID, medical masks were used at Gitmo as one of the many means of dehumanization and torture: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=masks+gitmo&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=masks+gitmo&iar=images&iax=images&... Human rights groups have long been critical of the full Burqa as a way to dehumanize women. There is a psychological effect of not being able to see people's faces, and therefor not seeing them as human. There are people who have PTSD from trauma, rape or sexual abuse who can not wear a mask without panic attacks. I know such people who cannot go into stores or restaurants and must order everything online. There are exceptions in the law, but most stores will not allow of it and the shame of walking around in a store without a mask where 99% of people do also induces panic. Masks have a cost. It is not low. It is not near zero. It is much higher than you think it is.

Daishiman 6y ago
This is the stupidest comment I have read in this thread.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  The fact that you cannot see any of these problems or understand how they are fracturing people and groups all around the world is part of the problem itself. These are all highly legitimate concerns you just dismiss with a whimsical "that's stupid." People who just accept masks and advocate for them immediately without question are also very likely to murder the person in the other room in the Stanley Milgram experiments. That should concern you and everybody.
  - Daishiman 6y ago
    No, I have personally seen each and every problem, and most everyone has seen them prima facie, and it boggles my mind how even so there can be a value judgement against masks.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      https://rationalground.com/post-thanksgiving-mask-charts-still-no-evidence-that-masks-work/ https://rationalground.com/post-thanksgiving-mask-charts-sti... https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
CyberDildonics 6y ago
This entire post is a disgusting and ridiculous way to to rationalize the selfish behavior of not wearing a mask in public. There is no reasonable person that would think these things in isolation. I feel gross after reading this nonsense. Knowing that someone would try this hard to equate genuine travesties with putting fabric over your mouth and nose to protect others to advance some separate agenda when more than 1 out of every 1000 people in the US is already dead from covid is a grave disappointment.
6y ago