5 ms·

I'd be curious to know some more details. The article says turnover was a problem at all levels, but why? I am in this same industry and I'm really interested

by DIVx0 6y ago

I'd be curious to know some more details. The article says turnover was a problem at all levels, but why? I am in this same industry and I'm really interested to learn what a massively well connected and funded startup discovered that made it better to toss in the towel.

djohnston 6y ago
Admittedtly without evidence, I would speculate that they ran up against institutional players who had better lobbying power for this industry. There is no technical limitation to explain why our healthcare system sucks, it's some crazy combination of inefficient policies, beaurocracies, and established parties who benefit from the preceding two. But agreed, would love to see more.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Turns out you need to fix the laws around healthcare to fix healthcare. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1129/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/112...
  - specialist 6y ago
    It's almost as if Freedom Markets™ would benefit from clear rules, professional administration, and fair & impartial referees.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
      The laws that incumbents write for their industries encourage extractive pricing models while discouraging competition and innovation.
- supertrope 6y ago
  "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair There's no single institution or person holding us back. Real life isn't a movie with a villain who can be defeated and then we live happily ever after. There's no magic HealthBot 3000 technology that will deliver a breakthrough in curing disease and injury, and/or disrupt current business models. Hospitals don't want to lose revenue. Physicians who don't want to lose revenue and turf. Drugmakers don't want to lose revenue. Health insurance. Patients refuse to opt into* any limits on care, demand nearly perfectly safe drugs, and say they only want the best care. We want to see our doctor over a cold and demand a pharmaceutical solution. We get annoyed when doc tells us to lose weight or quit smoking/drinking. We cannot accept death or taxes. "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Walt Kelly. The only deflationary force in the industry is have nots avoiding care at significant cost to life and limb. *Even relatively comfortable employer plans and Medicare have significant gatekeeping: "out of network," deductibles, what procedures and drugs are not covered.
  - phobosanomaly 6y ago
    Quick background on the great Walt Kelly quote, with images of the comic strip in which it was used. https://library.osu.edu/site/40stories/2020/01/05/we-have-met-the-enemy/ https://library.osu.edu/site/40stories/2020/01/05/we-have-me...
  - _lazlo 6y ago
    A good start would be to end the need for medical licensing. It creates an artificially low supply of doctors thus increased costs. Before medical licensing there were more breakthroughs and competition.
    - r00fus 6y ago
      How would you know if your doctor wasn’t a fraud?
      - theptip 6y ago
        Milton Friedman covers this in detail in “Capitalism and Freedom” if you want the full Libertarin justification, but the short answer is 1) voluntary certification, or 2) market reputation, or 3) threat of enforcement of anti-fraud laws that are less specific than licensure requirements. The general idea being that it is seldom a good thing to remove cheap options (eg forcing poor people to go bankrupt instead of letting them choose worse care), and licensure both sets a quality floor, and also artificially restricts supply. I think for life-and-death things like medicine this idea breaks down a bit, but that’s the end of the spectrum and how it’s argued as far as I’ve seen.
        imtringued 6y ago
        I wouldn't trust Milton Friedman's opinion when it comes to life and death. He loves busting supporting pillars without first considering how to migrate off of them. His economic "misadventures" in China resulted in protests at the Tiananmen Square and everyone knows how that ended.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
  Everyone wants it fixed but nobody wants to lose money.
ProAm 6y ago
I dont think they are throwing in the towel, I think they are all going about it on their own to capture more of the low hanging profit? > One key issue facing Haven was that while the firm came up with ideas, each of the three founding companies executed their own projects separately with their own employees, obviating the need for the joint venture to begin with, according to the people, who declined to be identified speaking about the matter.
- Technically 6y ago
  Maybe we've reached the point where startups are just really expensive spikes.
rmrfstar 6y ago
This is probably an indicator that outside counsel is saying "antitrust might be a real thing again, why don't you lower your profile a smidge." Nothing says "cartel" louder than a "joint venture" comprised of 3 companies with $2.5 trillion in market capitalization.

by DIVx0 6y ago

djohnston 6y ago

Admittedtly without evidence, I would speculate that they ran up against institutional players who had better lobbying power for this industry. There is no technical limitation to explain why our healthcare system sucks, it's some crazy combination of inefficient policies, beaurocracies, and established parties who benefit from the preceding two. But agreed, would love to see more.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Turns out you need to fix the laws around healthcare to fix healthcare. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1129/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/112...
- specialist 6y ago
  It's almost as if Freedom Markets™ would benefit from clear rules, professional administration, and fair & impartial referees.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
    The laws that incumbents write for their industries encourage extractive pricing models while discouraging competition and innovation.
supertrope 6y ago
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair There's no single institution or person holding us back. Real life isn't a movie with a villain who can be defeated and then we live happily ever after. There's no magic HealthBot 3000 technology that will deliver a breakthrough in curing disease and injury, and/or disrupt current business models. Hospitals don't want to lose revenue. Physicians who don't want to lose revenue and turf. Drugmakers don't want to lose revenue. Health insurance. Patients refuse to opt into* any limits on care, demand nearly perfectly safe drugs, and say they only want the best care. We want to see our doctor over a cold and demand a pharmaceutical solution. We get annoyed when doc tells us to lose weight or quit smoking/drinking. We cannot accept death or taxes. "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Walt Kelly. The only deflationary force in the industry is have nots avoiding care at significant cost to life and limb. *Even relatively comfortable employer plans and Medicare have significant gatekeeping: "out of network," deductibles, what procedures and drugs are not covered.
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  Quick background on the great Walt Kelly quote, with images of the comic strip in which it was used. https://library.osu.edu/site/40stories/2020/01/05/we-have-met-the-enemy/ https://library.osu.edu/site/40stories/2020/01/05/we-have-me...
- _lazlo 6y ago
  A good start would be to end the need for medical licensing. It creates an artificially low supply of doctors thus increased costs. Before medical licensing there were more breakthroughs and competition.
  - r00fus 6y ago
    How would you know if your doctor wasn’t a fraud?
    - theptip 6y ago
      Milton Friedman covers this in detail in “Capitalism and Freedom” if you want the full Libertarin justification, but the short answer is 1) voluntary certification, or 2) market reputation, or 3) threat of enforcement of anti-fraud laws that are less specific than licensure requirements. The general idea being that it is seldom a good thing to remove cheap options (eg forcing poor people to go bankrupt instead of letting them choose worse care), and licensure both sets a quality floor, and also artificially restricts supply. I think for life-and-death things like medicine this idea breaks down a bit, but that’s the end of the spectrum and how it’s argued as far as I’ve seen.
      - imtringued 6y ago
        I wouldn't trust Milton Friedman's opinion when it comes to life and death. He loves busting supporting pillars without first considering how to migrate off of them. His economic "misadventures" in China resulted in protests at the Tiananmen Square and everyone knows how that ended.
2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
Everyone wants it fixed but nobody wants to lose money.

ProAm 6y ago

I dont think they are throwing in the towel, I think they are all going about it on their own to capture more of the low hanging profit? > One key issue facing Haven was that while the firm came up with ideas, each of the three founding companies executed their own projects separately with their own employees, obviating the need for the joint venture to begin with, according to the people, who declined to be identified speaking about the matter.

Technically 6y ago
Maybe we've reached the point where startups are just really expensive spikes.

rmrfstar 6y ago

This is probably an indicator that outside counsel is saying "antitrust might be a real thing again, why don't you lower your profile a smidge." Nothing says "cartel" louder than a "joint venture" comprised of 3 companies with $2.5 trillion in market capitalization.