6 ms·

You would have a part in shaping the contract, though. And if you don't like it, yeah, leave the union, you're no worse off than you were before.

toast0 6y ago
If the new contract is worse, leaving the union isn't sufficient to get back to where you were, because the employer won't offer the old terms to non-union members and the new terms to union members.
rlewkov 6y ago
You may or may not be better off. How will people that are/aren't part of a union be treated if some people are members? If majority is union and you are not, will you be shunned, denied same opportunities for promotion, etc? We can only guess.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  The management have to find out you're in a union first, then ... why do they shun you, what's the play you're imagining here? Don't you have employment contracts? People will, at least under rule of law, be treated according to their contracts and your country's employment law?? Does your company currently investigate who you've spoken to about your job and seek to punish you for representing your better interests?
  - RHSeeger 6y ago
    I believe the person you're replying to was talking about how non-union members would be treated by union members. And, at least in the US, the answer is "horrible". The people in the unions are widely known for coming out hard and strong, with considerable bile, against anyone that so much as expresses the opinion that the union might not be the right choice for them. Rats, scabs, etc; pick your insulting name, they're called it.
stale2002 6y ago
> if you don't like it, yeah, leave the union, you're no worse off than you were before. Completely false. With the ways that union laws work, if the majority of workers at a company unionize, then I have no choice but to be subject to their contract and fees. Most tech companies are not in right to work states, so I'd have to go along with the contract. That is how I would be worse off.
- oarabbus_ 6y ago
  >Most tech companies are not in right to work states, so I'd have to go along with the contract. Most tech companies are located in California, which is a right to work state.
  - pxx 6y ago
    What? No it isn't. Smattering of links: https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/right-to-work-laws-and-bills.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/right-to-... https://legalbeagle.com/13720413-is-california-a-right-to-work-state.html https://legalbeagle.com/13720413-is-california-a-right-to-wo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#US_states_with_right-to-work_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#US_states_wi...
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  Where are you that has laws constraining that you have to be a part of a particular union, sounds very Soviet (in the fascist, dictatorial sense).
  - RHSeeger 6y ago
    Only 28 states have right-to-work laws. In the rest, unions can force you to join or not work at the company in question.
  - djrobstep 6y ago
    Why is it bad to be forced to be part of a union and contribute dues involuntarily, but OK to be forced to contribute to your employer's profits involuntarily?
tengbretson 6y ago
And you have about as much leverage in shaping the union contract as you do in negotiating your individual employment contract, so where's the win?
- IX-103 6y ago
  The difference is in the incentives. The union tries to make it's members happy. The employer tries to avoid liability and make a profit. One of those is more aligned with your interests than the other.

toast0 6y ago

If the new contract is worse, leaving the union isn't sufficient to get back to where you were, because the employer won't offer the old terms to non-union members and the new terms to union members.

rlewkov 6y ago

You may or may not be better off. How will people that are/aren't part of a union be treated if some people are members? If majority is union and you are not, will you be shunned, denied same opportunities for promotion, etc? We can only guess.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
The management have to find out you're in a union first, then ... why do they shun you, what's the play you're imagining here? Don't you have employment contracts? People will, at least under rule of law, be treated according to their contracts and your country's employment law?? Does your company currently investigate who you've spoken to about your job and seek to punish you for representing your better interests?
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  I believe the person you're replying to was talking about how non-union members would be treated by union members. And, at least in the US, the answer is "horrible". The people in the unions are widely known for coming out hard and strong, with considerable bile, against anyone that so much as expresses the opinion that the union might not be the right choice for them. Rats, scabs, etc; pick your insulting name, they're called it.

stale2002 6y ago

> if you don't like it, yeah, leave the union, you're no worse off than you were before. Completely false. With the ways that union laws work, if the majority of workers at a company unionize, then I have no choice but to be subject to their contract and fees. Most tech companies are not in right to work states, so I'd have to go along with the contract. That is how I would be worse off.

oarabbus_ 6y ago
>Most tech companies are not in right to work states, so I'd have to go along with the contract. Most tech companies are located in California, which is a right to work state.
- pxx 6y ago
  What? No it isn't. Smattering of links: https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/right-to-work-laws-and-bills.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/right-to-... https://legalbeagle.com/13720413-is-california-a-right-to-work-state.html https://legalbeagle.com/13720413-is-california-a-right-to-wo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#US_states_with_right-to-work_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#US_states_wi...
pbhjpbhj 6y ago
Where are you that has laws constraining that you have to be a part of a particular union, sounds very Soviet (in the fascist, dictatorial sense).
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  Only 28 states have right-to-work laws. In the rest, unions can force you to join or not work at the company in question.
- djrobstep 6y ago
  Why is it bad to be forced to be part of a union and contribute dues involuntarily, but OK to be forced to contribute to your employer's profits involuntarily?

tengbretson 6y ago

And you have about as much leverage in shaping the union contract as you do in negotiating your individual employment contract, so where's the win?

IX-103 6y ago
The difference is in the incentives. The union tries to make it's members happy. The employer tries to avoid liability and make a profit. One of those is more aligned with your interests than the other.