6 ms·

NIH developed the vaccine, Moderna and Pfizer are manufacturing it.

by fassssst 6y ago

jonplackett 6y ago
And monetising it. Oxford vaccine is slightly less effective, but about an order of magnitude more affordable.
- esja 6y ago
  They are all incredibly affordable, measured against the benefits to individuals and society.
  - sanxiyn 6y ago
    I agree, but those are not in contradiction. 1000x affordable vaccine is still an order of magnitude more affordable than 100x affordable vaccine.
  - jonplackett 6y ago
    You can say they are cheap compared, but affordable is what can actually be afforded. And for a country like India with a billion people, paying ~$1 per dose VS something like $15 for moderna is a huge difference. All I'm saying is you should give more credit to companies doing the right thing and essentially giving the vaccine away at cost while there's a pandemic, even if their vaccine isn't quite as good.
    - esja 6y ago
      The companies giving this away at cost are obviously doing something good for the world. That's not my point. I just find it odd that companies like Pfizer and Moderna are about to lift the world out of a catastrophe in unprecedented fashion, and we have people complaining about prices which are not overly high when compared to the benefit, even in the developing world. India's GDP in 2019 was almost 2.9 trillion and the virus has knocked 300 billion or more off that just this year. Even under your extreme example they aren't going to care about spending an "extra" 14 billion.
      - jonplackett 6y ago
        I’m not complaining about the prices. I think they’ve done something amazing for sure. I just think the companies doing that same thing, and at cost are more amazing. Without the Oxford one, a lot of countries around the world would still be just as screwed as they are today. But don’t get me wrong I think what they all have done is amazing. And it makes me happy.
    - valarauko 6y ago
      In India the Pfizer vaccine works out to $35 per dose, and AstraZeneca at $3 * [Pfizer Vaccine's Price May Be Throwing off Indian Government, Report Says - The Wire Science](https://science.thewire.in/health/pfizer-vaccines-price-may-be-throwing-off-indian-government-report-says/ https://science.thewire.in/health/pfizer-vaccines-price-may-...)
- mongol 6y ago
  This is the list of what the EU is paying: Oxford/AstraZeneca: €1.78 (£1.61). Johnson & Johnson: $8.50 (£6.30). Sanofi/GSK: €7.56. Pfizer/BioNTech: €12. CureVac: €10. Moderna: $18. Compare with the price of 1 liter of hand sanitizer. These vaccines are incredibly affordable.
  - jonplackett 6y ago
    Yes, they are, but companies doing it at cost should get more credit than those doing it for profit.
    - cipher_system 6y ago
      Maybe some vaccines are more expensive to produce? Do we know the profit margins on each of these vaccines?
      - jonplackett 6y ago
        From wikipedia, comparing it to the old fashioned method: > RNA vaccines can be produced faster, more cheaply, and in a more standardized fashion So should be cheaper if anything rather than more expensive.
        jelliclesfarm 6y ago
        It’s not the cost of vaccines. It’s the transportation and special refrigeration units that are expensive. Many hospitals have to install that infrastructure. Could be worth it if mRNA tech becomes the norm for other vaccines. I am really excited about mRNA vaccine technology. It’s brilliant.
    - tlb 6y ago
      Given a choice between producing enough doses in 1 month for $10 each, and producing enough doses over 10 months for $1 each, which would you prefer they do? The cheap-slow version costs a million lives, and several billion extra man-months of lockdown, in return for a globally insignificant cost savings. Valuing lives at maybe $1000 each. Increasing production 10x for 10x the cost is pretty typical of things where you build a lot of special-purpose equipment which is then worthless after the production run.
bpodgursky 6y ago
Nothing is true about this statement.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  My Understanding is that the stabilized Spike Protein sequence was developed and patented by UT Austin and the NIH. This was hen encoded using Moderna's mRNA delivery technology. I'm sure there were also countless other technology innovations that contributed to the quick rollout. It seems very reductive to attribute credit to one individual or organization over another.
- fomine3 6y ago
  Not Invented Here /s

NIH developed the vaccine, Moderna and Pfizer are manufacturing it.

jonplackett 6y ago

And monetising it. Oxford vaccine is slightly less effective, but about an order of magnitude more affordable.

esja 6y ago
They are all incredibly affordable, measured against the benefits to individuals and society.
- sanxiyn 6y ago
  I agree, but those are not in contradiction. 1000x affordable vaccine is still an order of magnitude more affordable than 100x affordable vaccine.
- jonplackett 6y ago
  You can say they are cheap compared, but affordable is what can actually be afforded. And for a country like India with a billion people, paying ~$1 per dose VS something like $15 for moderna is a huge difference. All I'm saying is you should give more credit to companies doing the right thing and essentially giving the vaccine away at cost while there's a pandemic, even if their vaccine isn't quite as good.
  - esja 6y ago
    The companies giving this away at cost are obviously doing something good for the world. That's not my point. I just find it odd that companies like Pfizer and Moderna are about to lift the world out of a catastrophe in unprecedented fashion, and we have people complaining about prices which are not overly high when compared to the benefit, even in the developing world. India's GDP in 2019 was almost 2.9 trillion and the virus has knocked 300 billion or more off that just this year. Even under your extreme example they aren't going to care about spending an "extra" 14 billion.
    - jonplackett 6y ago
      I’m not complaining about the prices. I think they’ve done something amazing for sure. I just think the companies doing that same thing, and at cost are more amazing. Without the Oxford one, a lot of countries around the world would still be just as screwed as they are today. But don’t get me wrong I think what they all have done is amazing. And it makes me happy.
  - valarauko 6y ago
    In India the Pfizer vaccine works out to $35 per dose, and AstraZeneca at $3 * [Pfizer Vaccine's Price May Be Throwing off Indian Government, Report Says - The Wire Science](https://science.thewire.in/health/pfizer-vaccines-price-may-be-throwing-off-indian-government-report-says/ https://science.thewire.in/health/pfizer-vaccines-price-may-...)
mongol 6y ago
This is the list of what the EU is paying: Oxford/AstraZeneca: €1.78 (£1.61). Johnson & Johnson: $8.50 (£6.30). Sanofi/GSK: €7.56. Pfizer/BioNTech: €12. CureVac: €10. Moderna: $18. Compare with the price of 1 liter of hand sanitizer. These vaccines are incredibly affordable.
- jonplackett 6y ago
  Yes, they are, but companies doing it at cost should get more credit than those doing it for profit.
  - cipher_system 6y ago
    Maybe some vaccines are more expensive to produce? Do we know the profit margins on each of these vaccines?
    - jonplackett 6y ago
      From wikipedia, comparing it to the old fashioned method: > RNA vaccines can be produced faster, more cheaply, and in a more standardized fashion So should be cheaper if anything rather than more expensive.
      - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
        It’s not the cost of vaccines. It’s the transportation and special refrigeration units that are expensive. Many hospitals have to install that infrastructure. Could be worth it if mRNA tech becomes the norm for other vaccines. I am really excited about mRNA vaccine technology. It’s brilliant.
  - tlb 6y ago
    Given a choice between producing enough doses in 1 month for $10 each, and producing enough doses over 10 months for $1 each, which would you prefer they do? The cheap-slow version costs a million lives, and several billion extra man-months of lockdown, in return for a globally insignificant cost savings. Valuing lives at maybe $1000 each. Increasing production 10x for 10x the cost is pretty typical of things where you build a lot of special-purpose equipment which is then worthless after the production run.

bpodgursky 6y ago

Nothing is true about this statement.

s1artibartfast 6y ago
My Understanding is that the stabilized Spike Protein sequence was developed and patented by UT Austin and the NIH. This was hen encoded using Moderna's mRNA delivery technology. I'm sure there were also countless other technology innovations that contributed to the quick rollout. It seems very reductive to attribute credit to one individual or organization over another.
fomine3 6y ago
Not Invented Here /s