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I'm very sad to say this, but HN as a Place to discuss is not up to the standards people say it is. I'm being downvoted for basically stating the obvious and,

I'm very sad to say this, but HN as a Place to discuss is not up to the standards people say it is. I'm being downvoted for basically stating the obvious and, worse than that, by people that do not stop a second to think about what other people wrote. I'm not putting Assange on trial, I'm not a judge, this is not a tribunal, I was just clarifying what he's been accused of! Having said that: yes, if you are the driver in a Bank robbery, you can get arrested for "basically driving a car" The crime is not driving, is helping other criminals to commit the crime. Which is what Assange is accused of. He's not accused of running hashcat. Even if he did the decryption with pen and paper and failed he would be an "accessory to the crime" (allegedly, because he's only accused of doing it) To put it in other words, he is accused of being > a person who knowingly and voluntarily participates in the commission of a crime. Regardless of the crime, the simple fact that he (allegedly) helped is a crime.

h_anna_h 6y ago
Sure but I don't know how this is relevant to what I said. > Having said that: yes, if you are the driver in a Bank robbery, you can get arrested for "basically driving a car" Driving in a bank robbery is different to basically just doing some calculations. It might be a crime but it should not be one. Regardless though I would claim that even if he tried to physically get into buildings and steal documents in order to expose warcrimes I would say that they should let him free.
- africanboy 6y ago
  Driving is driving Doing some calculations is doing some calculations Driving for bank robbers or doing some calculations for the mob can be a crime, if driving or doing calculations was helping them to commit a crime and you knew it. > even if he tried to physically get into buildings and steal documents in order to expose warcrimes I would say that they should let him free. That's your opinion. I'm not saying you are wrong in principle, but that's not how law works.
  - h_anna_h 6y ago
    Sure, and it is your opinion that assange should have refused to help manning.
    - africanboy 6y ago
      I think there's a (big) misunderstanding here. My opinion __is not__ that Assange should have refused to help Mannings, Assange is an adult, he can chose to do whatever he wants. What I'm saying is that Assange should have refused to be accessory to a crime. Journalists are protected when they receive classified informations, even if obtained illegaly, as long as the journalist didn’t do anything illegal He knew he was helping with something illegal (at least he should have known) and that by doing it he would lose the kind of protections guaranteed to the press.
      - h_anna_h 6y ago
        > My opinion __is not__ that Assange should have refused to help Mannings ... Assange should have refused to be accessory to a crime These two are literally the same thing.
        africanboy 6y ago
        Helping in committing a crime is different from helping. Sorry if I insist on this, but helping != being accessory to a crime. You can help in many ways, most of them are not crimes. If I ask you to help me to set on fire the car of someone who harassed my girlfriend and you say "I can't" you are not refusing to help, you are refusing to commit a crime in order to help me. You might help in other ways like saying "please, don't do this".
Talanes 6y ago
>I'm being downvoted for basically stating the obvious Because "stating the obvious" is rarely a productive mode of discussion. People are trying to discuss the nuance of the topic, but you have a very hard-lined view that leaves little room to actually discuss anything.
- africanboy 6y ago
  I'm from a country where the law is the law and ignorance of the law is no excuse. I've read "Dei delitti e delle pene" (on crimes and punishments) from Cesare Beccaria many times. I truly believe what Montesquieu said "every punishment which does not arise from absolute necessity is tyrannical" That's why I also believe that justice means letting the judicial system do its job and prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that someone is guilty or let him go. We can discuss about what we believe is right or wrong, but that won't change the reasons why Assange is being prosecuted. It's up to the court now to prove him guilty or declare him an innocent man. When I say I'm stating the obvious I'm not expressing any opinion on Assange's actions, I'm only saying what are the charges. We can agree or disagree with them, but we can't undo what's already happened. He's accused of allegedly helping Mannings to commit a crime. That's all I've said.

h_anna_h 6y ago

Sure but I don't know how this is relevant to what I said. > Having said that: yes, if you are the driver in a Bank robbery, you can get arrested for "basically driving a car" Driving in a bank robbery is different to basically just doing some calculations. It might be a crime but it should not be one. Regardless though I would claim that even if he tried to physically get into buildings and steal documents in order to expose warcrimes I would say that they should let him free.

africanboy 6y ago
Driving is driving Doing some calculations is doing some calculations Driving for bank robbers or doing some calculations for the mob can be a crime, if driving or doing calculations was helping them to commit a crime and you knew it. > even if he tried to physically get into buildings and steal documents in order to expose warcrimes I would say that they should let him free. That's your opinion. I'm not saying you are wrong in principle, but that's not how law works.
- h_anna_h 6y ago
  Sure, and it is your opinion that assange should have refused to help manning.
  - africanboy 6y ago
    I think there's a (big) misunderstanding here. My opinion __is not__ that Assange should have refused to help Mannings, Assange is an adult, he can chose to do whatever he wants. What I'm saying is that Assange should have refused to be accessory to a crime. Journalists are protected when they receive classified informations, even if obtained illegaly, as long as the journalist didn’t do anything illegal He knew he was helping with something illegal (at least he should have known) and that by doing it he would lose the kind of protections guaranteed to the press.
    - h_anna_h 6y ago
      > My opinion __is not__ that Assange should have refused to help Mannings ... Assange should have refused to be accessory to a crime These two are literally the same thing.
      - africanboy 6y ago
        Helping in committing a crime is different from helping. Sorry if I insist on this, but helping != being accessory to a crime. You can help in many ways, most of them are not crimes. If I ask you to help me to set on fire the car of someone who harassed my girlfriend and you say "I can't" you are not refusing to help, you are refusing to commit a crime in order to help me. You might help in other ways like saying "please, don't do this".

Talanes 6y ago

>I'm being downvoted for basically stating the obvious Because "stating the obvious" is rarely a productive mode of discussion. People are trying to discuss the nuance of the topic, but you have a very hard-lined view that leaves little room to actually discuss anything.

africanboy 6y ago
I'm from a country where the law is the law and ignorance of the law is no excuse. I've read "Dei delitti e delle pene" (on crimes and punishments) from Cesare Beccaria many times. I truly believe what Montesquieu said "every punishment which does not arise from absolute necessity is tyrannical" That's why I also believe that justice means letting the judicial system do its job and prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that someone is guilty or let him go. We can discuss about what we believe is right or wrong, but that won't change the reasons why Assange is being prosecuted. It's up to the court now to prove him guilty or declare him an innocent man. When I say I'm stating the obvious I'm not expressing any opinion on Assange's actions, I'm only saying what are the charges. We can agree or disagree with them, but we can't undo what's already happened. He's accused of allegedly helping Mannings to commit a crime. That's all I've said.