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Brexit stops Brooks England sales of ‘Made in Britain’ saddles to UK shoppers
- hirundo 6y ago"The company said that it had taken the decision due to the UK government telling overseas firms that they must apply and collect British taxes when selling to customers here, with the point at which VAT is collected, for example, moved from the point of importation to the point of sale." It would be difficult for London policy makers to come up with trade rules that are as damaging and onerous as the ones from Brussels. But I have every confidence that they are up to the task.
- polar 6y agoThe EU intends to introduce a similar system later this year. https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/modernisi...
- Shoue 6y agoAlso as I understand it, Norway already has as of April 2020 (VOEC), so not just EU.
- chha 6y agoChances are that Norway did it because of the EU as a member of EFTA.
- threeseed 6y agoAustralia has had this system in place for over a year now. https://www.ato.gov.au/business/international-tax-for-business/gst-on-low-value-imported-goods/information-for-consumers/ https://www.ato.gov.au/business/international-tax-for-busine...
- threeseed 6y ago> come up with trade rules that are as damaging and onerous as the ones from Brussels Simply not true. EU has made trading free and effortless between the 27 member states for the first time in history. And for companies shipping to the EU it is only a one time regulatory hit and then you benefit from a single, coherent market. Also the world needs a trading bloc that actually believes in climate change, worker rights, consumer rights, privacy etc.
- mrslave 6y agoShame it didn't just stay a trading bloc. This expansion of power is really unpopular and enabled Brexit in the first place. It's also probably a proxy for immigration, mostly of the illegal variety, but also legal within the Schengen area. People don't take too kindly to having a supernational body tell them who is allowed to enter their country, stay for long periods of time, and their very loose definition of refugee. I know that some nations are politically very much in alignment with the EU's immigration push (Germany is obvious) but clearly the UK isn't. The EU should not have touched this issue. The single area interest rate also creates a lot of economic tension that perhaps the average joe can't articulate, but he certainly is affected by it.
- AndrewDucker 6y agoThe EU was never, ever, just a trading bloc. https://davidallengreen.com/2021/01/the-real-origin-of-the-european-union-supranationalism-state-and-why-it-still-matters/ https://davidallengreen.com/2021/01/the-real-origin-of-the-e...
- intricatedetail 6y agoThis is one big surveillance super state. Companies e.g. have to submit all their invoices, bank accounts to gov in real time. Some member states even require separate bank accounts to store VAT. Bureaucracy is just gargantuan. If you think it is easy then likely you are doing something wrong.
- brtkdotse 6y ago
- gumby 6y agoSeems like a simplification (one which other countries have already implemented too).
- 2Gkashmiri 6y agoHow I would suggest they do it. Costing wise VAT is already included so pricing provably wont change unless tax rates are same/similar. Then, set up a Britain operations which would mean as the article said, registered with local tax office. The next part would be, to "sell" goods to that British subsidiary tax account which would then sell to local customers. That or do how things work with aliepxress and assume you are aliexpress and your customers want to buy from you. You just add VAT as import duty at time of sale and that should do it.
- pmontra 6y agoNot every business is large enough to sustain the overhead of a subsidiary in the UK or in any other country. Probably there is an opportunity window for middleman services that collect orders and sell to UK customers, an Alibaba from the EU to the UK.
- toast0 6y agoFor Brooks, they clearly have a UK subsidiary already, because they own and operate a manufacturing facility. It's probably just a bit of time to digest the trade agreement and figure out what the best thing is going forward, shich I would guess is probably finding a way to ship UK destined saddles within the UK to avoid customs. For some of the other bicycle companies mentioned, it seems they don't have UK operations, so they may not want to have formal relations with the UK government. They'll need time to figure it out too, but probably worst case is they'll end direct mail order sales to the UK, and you'd have to buy through a retailer. But, again after some time to understand the new rules.
- rsynnott 6y ago> Probably there is an opportunity window for middleman services that collect orders and sell to UK customers There absolutely is, and such services are already showing up. "Let's fund our middlemen instead" wasn't a great slogan for a bus, of course, but this was always inevitable.
- nottorp 6y ago
- lanevorockz 6y agotemporarily temporarily temporarily temporarily
- Animats 6y agoThey had two years to get ready. Of course a UK company should not be shipping to Italy and back to the UK. The UK is now outside the European Union. There are trade barriers now. That's what Brexit was all about. Leaving the European Union.
- Finnucane 6y agoBut it's not really a UK company shipping to Italy, it's an Italian company that owns UK factory shipping to Italy. With a single market, it probably made sense to Selle to have distribution flow from Italy. It's not their fault the UK is being an arse.
- johannes1234321 6y agoRight, they have a large distribution center in Italy, where they process all orders across Europe and beyond. Putting a distribution center into UK wasn't useful pre-Brexist as orders might contain items from different lines and a larger center is more efficient. Post-Brexit the market could be too small.
- hibbelig 6y agoWell it has been up to everyone to prepare for the new rules. I get that details have not been known until recently. But it was clear from the start that moving goods around like this will not work.
- toast0 6y agoThere was lots of hopeful talk about UK contining to be in the single market. I think I heard that up through spring of 2020. Even assuming it was clear that what they were doing wouldn't work, I don't think it was necessarily clear what would work. And it may not have been cost effective to change until necessary.
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- Animats 6y ago(By the way, HN is taking about 20 seconds to process a posting today.)
- southeastern 6y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25635115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25635115 Here's a HN thread about this
- davidw 6y agoAs a former resident of Italy, I'm a bit stumped by "logistics center in Italy". Italy's a great place for many things - I could talk about it at length - but shipping and logistics is not one that comes immediately to mind.
- mikey_p 6y agoProbably because their parent company is in Italy. > Owned since 2002 by Italian bicycle saddles firm Selle Royale
- rob74 6y agoWell, if you are a huge Italian bicycle saddle maker, and you buy a small boutique British bicycle saddle maker, and you decide to centralise your logistics, where are you going to do it?
- petre 6y agoMove EU production to Italy, keep a smaller boutique shop for the UK market.
- busterarm 6y agoItaly has been mass-importing cheap manufacturing labor from China and it has most-affected textiles businesses.
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoNot Brooks saddles, though. They are still made in the UK. However, cheaper immigrant labor has been used, albeit not Chinese. Brooks' own newsletter reveals that at least some current workers in this British firm with a hundred-year-old tradition are recently-arrived Poles. One place where Brooks has really diminished its fine reputation is handlebar tape: Brooks leather handlebar tape is made in a Chinese factory with just the Brooks logo stamped on it, and it is nowhere near the quality of the famed saddles.
- 6y ago
- noncoml 6y agoBrexit is the best modern argument against Democracy. It's literally the beloved British saying of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Edit: I mean if someone was arguing against Democracy, this would be one of their best arguments to support their position. I am not arguing against Democracy. I hope I don’t get misunderstood.
- st1x7 6y agoNo, it's more complicated than that. It's an argument against putting your long-term foreign policy up to a simple majority vote on only one occasion and in a way that one of the outcomes hasn't been clearly defined which allows for anyone to claim anything they want about the potential benefits.
- roamerz 6y agoRight or wrong how can one argue against Democracy (the will of the people)? It’s a basic tenant to freedom.
- oblio 6y agoMinor nitpick: tenet, not tenant. Otherwise, agreed :-)
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- johnp314 6y agoHistory is replete with pure democracy leading to tyranny. Beyond just Brexit, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the 'majority' could vote to nullify constitutional checks to the power of a president, to term length, to guarantees on the protection of individual rights and freedoms, etc. Of course any such votes are deemed to be in the interest of the 'people'. The ancients and the US at its founding were wise enough to mix democracy, the at the moment will of the people, with various checks, balances and buffers. The US seems to be moving to more and more pure democracy. In my humble opinion this is dangerous, a slippery slope, a camel's nose under the tent, etc.
- 908B64B197 6y agoFor a place that already has sky high income tax, I wonder why place such an additional burden on businesses with complicated and punitive taxes like these?
- mkl 6y agoYou may be misinformed: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=TABLE_I6 https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=TABLE_I6
- 908B64B197 6y agoI realize I was mistaken. Still, it feels Europe has, in general, huge tariffs, VAT and sales tax for any items, often doubling the price for seemingly no good reasons.
- cultus 6y agoI'll just drop in here to say that as a massive cycling enthusiast and former racer, BUY A BROOKS SADDLE! They are the best bike saddle I've ever ridden. I don't get sore or chafe even on 5+ hour rids Sure, they weigh 2 lbs instead of 10 ounces, but that just doesn't matter for 99.8% of cyclists. Since it is leather, the saddle breaks in to your particular nether regions just like a boot or baseball gloves.
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoThey are great. I rode one for a decade. Comfortable, classy. But to tell the truth, the only seat that breaks in is the one that's attached to you.
- creaturemachine 6y agoMy Brooks was the first to ever give me saddle sores, and that's after having used some pretty serious ass hatchets in the past. It's definitely a quality product and it's better now, but break-in is a bitch.
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoWere you wearing padded cycling shorts? Those are said to actually prevent the saddle from molding itself comfortably to your sit bones. Me, I spend half of every year cycle-touring the world, wearing ordinary cotton underwear and Fjällräven expedition trousers on the bike. My Brooks broke in after 500 km without sores and only a modicum of discomfort, and after that it has been like I’m sitting on air as I ride.
- PoachedSausage 6y agoI've never found padded cycle shorts very comfortable and find it quite annoying that finding good quality cycling shorts without padding is getting difficult. Without padding they can also be used for other forms of exercise/sports.
- petre 6y agoGet a Brooks Cambium then.
- bserge 6y agoDoes anyone know, do I have to pay customs duty or VAT on orders from Amazon.co.uk shipped to EU? Last time I bought some SSDs (pre-Brexit) on Amazon.co.uk, they were shipped from France. How is Amazon handling it now? Extra tax on Amazon.co.uk and no tax on Amazon.de/fr/etc? Thanks!
- teh_klev 6y agoThis might help: https://tamebay.com/2020/07/amazon-fba-brexit-bombshell-efn-and-pan-european-fba-ends-for-uk.html https://tamebay.com/2020/07/amazon-fba-brexit-bombshell-efn-...
- bserge 6y agoThank you!
- Hamuko 6y agoYou should be paying VAT if you order from the UK to the EU. I just tried out checking out an item on Amazon.co.uk with Finland as the destination. On the checkout page I have four different charges: items, postage & packaging, import fees deposit, and exchange rate guarantee fee. So looks like Amazon is removing the VAT from the item (it was £39.99 on the item page and it drops to £33.32 on the checkout page) and then charging your local VAT as an up-front deposit. So if it's anything like my Amazon.co.jp orders, you just throw money at Amazon and you get the item in your hands without any customs hassle.
- bserge 6y agoThanks!
- groundthrower 6y agoBrooks has been my saddle on my bicycle trips across the world. It’s now sort of a fingerprint of my butt.
- analog31 6y agoI believe that Brooks may be the oldest bike-related brand in continuous use.
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- phjesusthatguy3 6y agoIf we're going to edit the title, can we at least change it to the more honest "EU company temporarily suspends exports to UK after Brexit"?
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