5 ms·

I'm really sorry for that guy. Now that he knows for a fact that GUIs can be fast, he'll be suffering for the rest of his life when a GUI app is slow for any r

by znpy 6y ago

I'm really sorry for that guy. Now that he knows for a fact that GUIs can be fast, he'll be suffering for the rest of his life when a GUI app is slow for any reason. I'm only 50% joking here.

inetknght 6y ago
> Now that he knows for a fact that GUIs can be fast, he'll be suffering for the rest of his life when a GUI app is slow for any reason. Not only slow GUIs but GUIs that demand tens or hundreds of MBs just to draw a few items
- bitwize 6y ago
  GUI libraries are heavyweight for a reason: lightweight GUIs do not adequately address accessibility, or internationalization. If you were on my software project, and you weren't using native controls on macOS or Windows, one of the big two on Linux, or Electron, you'd better have a damn good reason.
  - BlueTemplar 6y ago
    Humm, what about Qt ? Or video games ?
    - bitwize 6y ago
      Qt uses native controls on Windows or Mac. Not ideally, but it's a viable solution. And it's one of Linux's big two. Video games count as a damn good reason.
      - jokethrowaway 6y ago
        Qt doesn't use native controls, they're lookalike. The point of the comment asking about Qt is most likely that Qt is not heavyweight (it does a great job even on embedded.), therefore pointing out that there is a difference between Qt and the other you mentioned. I'm not a fan of OOP and I think there are more interesting framework model - but Qt is definitely the best and most efficient GUI framework I've had the pleasure to work with.
  - avhon1 6y ago
    This isn't necessarily true; FreePascal's LCL integrates with native accessibility frameworks: > The LCL should automatically provide accessibility for all of its standard controls, or allow the underlying widgetset to provide its own accessibility for the controls utilized directly from the widgetset. https://wiki.freepascal.org/LCL_Accessibility https://wiki.freepascal.org/LCL_Accessibility
  - emptyparadise 6y ago
    Accessibility and internationalization are both very important, but I think it's possible to have both without bringing in an entire browser engine.
  - inetknght 6y ago
    > GUI libraries are heavyweight for a reason: lightweight GUIs do not adequately address accessibility, or internationalization. GUIs don't need to be heavyweight to be accessible or internationalized (excepting for text translations, which should be downloaded rather than installed)
    - jan_Inkepa 6y ago
      Why should text translations be downloaded rather than installed? Oh, you mean not included by default in the installer? I'm not sure why that's very material here.
    - wyattpeak 6y ago
      I suspect the parent isn't talking about theoretical implementations but choosing an existing GUI framework for a project. I don't know much about GUIs but lightweight tools often fail to take accessibility into account, and hand-rolled tools almost always do.
  - selfhoster11 6y ago
    Win32 has accessibility and localization both, yet pure Win32 API programming results in tiny binaries that use a negligible amount of RAM compared to modern frameworks.
voodootrucker 6y ago
Lay tile just once and you'll spend the rest of your life seeing every fault in every tile job ever.
- gliese1337 6y ago
  Drywall, too.
  - lwhalen 6y ago
    And roofing.
    - dylan604 6y ago
      or bending and installing conduit
      - rubyfan 6y ago
        or painting
        asdff 6y ago
        or cutting grass. my god. give me the tools and i'll give you a putting green fit for the pga
        dylan604 6y ago
        is this after you rip out the grass that is already there and then replace it with a grass that is amneable to to a putting green? because if you can make my St. Augustine grass a putting green, then you sir, are a god.
        asdff 6y ago
        I can probably get it pretty playable and fast over the course of a season or two of working it shorter and shorter and rolling the playing surface smooth. At least municipal golf course tier.
rachelbythebay 6y ago
Yep. Do it right once, or see it done right, and you'll never be the same. We need more people getting down to the fundamentals like this to keep everyone honest. (Consider the Rick and Morty "true level" bit... and realize it's not that much of an exaggeration when it comes to stuff like this...)
- znpy 6y ago
  Thanks, I hadn't seen that yet. Rick and Morty funny as usual. For others interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1zBtJhgwBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1zBtJhgwBI
Justsignedup 6y ago
I work with people to make great UXes. And now I live my life seeing horrible UXes everywhere and hating having to use them.
aaronbrethorst 6y ago
Color balance in photographs.
pulp_user 6y ago
(OP here) The suffering hasn't increased that much. It was all painful before.
- znpy 6y ago
  Glad to hear that, I guess :)

by znpy 6y ago

I'm really sorry for that guy. Now that he knows for a fact that GUIs can be fast, he'll be suffering for the rest of his life when a GUI app is slow for any reason. I'm only 50% joking here.

inetknght 6y ago

> Now that he knows for a fact that GUIs can be fast, he'll be suffering for the rest of his life when a GUI app is slow for any reason. Not only slow GUIs but GUIs that demand tens or hundreds of MBs just to draw a few items

bitwize 6y ago
GUI libraries are heavyweight for a reason: lightweight GUIs do not adequately address accessibility, or internationalization. If you were on my software project, and you weren't using native controls on macOS or Windows, one of the big two on Linux, or Electron, you'd better have a damn good reason.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  Humm, what about Qt ? Or video games ?
  - bitwize 6y ago
    Qt uses native controls on Windows or Mac. Not ideally, but it's a viable solution. And it's one of Linux's big two. Video games count as a damn good reason.
    - jokethrowaway 6y ago
      Qt doesn't use native controls, they're lookalike. The point of the comment asking about Qt is most likely that Qt is not heavyweight (it does a great job even on embedded.), therefore pointing out that there is a difference between Qt and the other you mentioned. I'm not a fan of OOP and I think there are more interesting framework model - but Qt is definitely the best and most efficient GUI framework I've had the pleasure to work with.
- avhon1 6y ago
  This isn't necessarily true; FreePascal's LCL integrates with native accessibility frameworks: > The LCL should automatically provide accessibility for all of its standard controls, or allow the underlying widgetset to provide its own accessibility for the controls utilized directly from the widgetset. https://wiki.freepascal.org/LCL_Accessibility https://wiki.freepascal.org/LCL_Accessibility
- emptyparadise 6y ago
  Accessibility and internationalization are both very important, but I think it's possible to have both without bringing in an entire browser engine.
- inetknght 6y ago
  > GUI libraries are heavyweight for a reason: lightweight GUIs do not adequately address accessibility, or internationalization. GUIs don't need to be heavyweight to be accessible or internationalized (excepting for text translations, which should be downloaded rather than installed)
  - jan_Inkepa 6y ago
    Why should text translations be downloaded rather than installed? Oh, you mean not included by default in the installer? I'm not sure why that's very material here.
  - wyattpeak 6y ago
    I suspect the parent isn't talking about theoretical implementations but choosing an existing GUI framework for a project. I don't know much about GUIs but lightweight tools often fail to take accessibility into account, and hand-rolled tools almost always do.
- selfhoster11 6y ago
  Win32 has accessibility and localization both, yet pure Win32 API programming results in tiny binaries that use a negligible amount of RAM compared to modern frameworks.

voodootrucker 6y ago

Lay tile just once and you'll spend the rest of your life seeing every fault in every tile job ever.

gliese1337 6y ago
Drywall, too.
- lwhalen 6y ago
  And roofing.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    or bending and installing conduit
    - rubyfan 6y ago
      or painting
      - asdff 6y ago
        or cutting grass. my god. give me the tools and i'll give you a putting green fit for the pga
        dylan604 6y ago
        is this after you rip out the grass that is already there and then replace it with a grass that is amneable to to a putting green? because if you can make my St. Augustine grass a putting green, then you sir, are a god.
        asdff 6y ago
        I can probably get it pretty playable and fast over the course of a season or two of working it shorter and shorter and rolling the playing surface smooth. At least municipal golf course tier.

rachelbythebay 6y ago

Yep. Do it right once, or see it done right, and you'll never be the same. We need more people getting down to the fundamentals like this to keep everyone honest. (Consider the Rick and Morty "true level" bit... and realize it's not that much of an exaggeration when it comes to stuff like this...)

znpy 6y ago
Thanks, I hadn't seen that yet. Rick and Morty funny as usual. For others interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1zBtJhgwBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1zBtJhgwBI

Justsignedup 6y ago

I work with people to make great UXes. And now I live my life seeing horrible UXes everywhere and hating having to use them.

aaronbrethorst 6y ago

Color balance in photographs.

pulp_user 6y ago

(OP here) The suffering hasn't increased that much. It was all painful before.

znpy 6y ago
Glad to hear that, I guess :)