5 ms·

I think the problem is that the overwhelming majority of digital ad formats just don’t work. Does anyone who works in digital ad tech genuinely believe that the

I think the problem is that the overwhelming majority of digital ad formats just don’t work. Does anyone who works in digital ad tech genuinely believe that these formats work? I have been here for the last ten years and have come to believe they do not, certainly not comparable like traditional linear TV or print in their heydays. There are exceptions. I think Google search ad works so well it’s eating the product. I think YouTube’s TrueView is great for modern brand advertisers (safety issues aside). But by and large, banner ads, forced video pre-rolls, etc don’t work. The negative message of the format offsets any message you try to convey. Yes, fraud is a part of this. But I think a lot of this evidence looks the same as if none of their targeted, performance-based advertising was doing anything at all, beside really weak branding. Genuinely interested to hear from people who disagree.

wasdfff 6y ago
Instagram ads for millenials are like flies to honey in my anecdotal experience. So many of my peers buy their furniture, dress shoes, clothing, water bottles, watches, dog leashes, pretty much everything in their lives from seeing some like-aged person use that thing on an instagram ad (and the product usually being pretty cheap). It blows my mind how successful these dime a dozen drop shipping companies based on instagram are with millenials and gen z, and buying like this will only be more normalized in the future as more people know someone who got something nice from that instagram ad.
- MivLives 6y ago
  Yeah I've noticed I've even been drawn to something because of the mindless scroll to that's pretty neat, the button to buy it is right in front of me. I suspect this really only works for more novelty things like clothing that are cheap enough to enough to impulse buy and of interest to image conscious people.
- spideymans 6y ago
  >It blows my mind how successful these dime a dozen drop shipping companies based on instagram are with millenials and gen z, and buying like this will only be more normalized in the future as more people know someone who got something nice from that instagram ad. Especially with stay-at-home orders due to the pandemic, everyone (well, not everyone... but hyperbole) now has their own drop shipping brands operated out of their basements, all selling the same cheap products off of AliExpress. Will consumers catch on to what is going on? Do they even care?
georgeecollins 6y ago
Digital advertising is super effective for mobile ftp games. It is not a question if they work, it’s a question if the game can earn enough to justify the cost. Companies in that space have a super smart team of economists and data scientist constantly checking when a mobile app is worth advertising. Someone in this thread said no one has proved to them that digital ads are ever worth it. My experience is that when they are you don’t want to advertise it to potential competitors or the people who carry your ads.
qwerty456127 6y ago
> overwhelming majority of digital ad formats just don’t work Doesn't it? It may have miserable conversion rate, limited target audience but it apparently is commercially viable. People would hardly spend money on sending e-mail spam in 2020 if it didn't work.
- rightbyte 6y ago
  How do we not know that the spam is sent out by one sucker after the next that go until they realize it is not worth it?
- chrisdinn 6y ago
  I thought that at first. But like the original post points out, Uber was spending a lot of money, not just in absolute terms but in percentage terms, and it wasn't working for them. There's an allure to making something measurable and setting goals against it. Often, those goals take on a life of their own. That's what I am suggesting happened here, I guess.
- kbar13 6y ago
  if you read the twitter thread we see that uber was spending 10x more money than they should have on ads simply because they weren't auditing where their money was going towards. so there's evidence that people (incl uber, a market leader) do indeed spend money on ads even when it does nothing
  - Hnrobert42 6y ago
    I got 0.66x, as in $100M out of $150M. I likely missed something. Where did you see 10x?
    - chrisdinn 6y ago
      $100M was labelled "fraud" in this example, but there was more waste uncovered in the remaining $50M that didn't get that label.
- redisman 6y ago
cm2012 6y ago
Facebook and IG ads work. I agree that display network ads do not.
- chrisdinn 6y ago
  Ya for sure. I was a Googler so my examples were biased, these aren't the only ad formats that work but there are fewer than most people (even in ad tech) realize.
  - cm2012 6y ago
    Yep, even FB "audience network" ads suck and are fraud ridden. Newsfeed is a fundamentally great format for ads.
    - 2sk21 6y ago
      However I have not logged into FB in six months because the actual content in my newsfeed is so toxic. I wonder if this will cause things to change, although it seems unlikely.
      - trthomps 6y ago
        I last logged into FB in 2017... never going back.
staticassertion 6y ago
Mobile devices tend not to have adblockers, so exposure might be a lot higher. Also, the only ads I've clicked are mobile ads. I've even installed apps via ad before - I've never once purchased an item from an ad online (but I've also run an adblocker for a decade). Ads certainly "work" by some metric, and some definition of "work", but I think the metric and definition is unclear.
- jackcosgrove 6y ago
  The only ads I click on are mobile ads, and that's because many times the X to close them is too small. Other times the ad is jumping around my screen and it steals my fingerpress.
- chrisdinn 6y ago
  I think CTD ads (click-to-download) are one of the exceptions. It's a great format for some cases, eg games. For game devs, trust that yours is addicting enough that you can safely show your users a competitor's game knowing they'll come back to you. For players, you were looking to play a game anyway and maybe you want to try something new. Click, download and play that instead.

wasdfff 6y ago

Instagram ads for millenials are like flies to honey in my anecdotal experience. So many of my peers buy their furniture, dress shoes, clothing, water bottles, watches, dog leashes, pretty much everything in their lives from seeing some like-aged person use that thing on an instagram ad (and the product usually being pretty cheap). It blows my mind how successful these dime a dozen drop shipping companies based on instagram are with millenials and gen z, and buying like this will only be more normalized in the future as more people know someone who got something nice from that instagram ad.

MivLives 6y ago
Yeah I've noticed I've even been drawn to something because of the mindless scroll to that's pretty neat, the button to buy it is right in front of me. I suspect this really only works for more novelty things like clothing that are cheap enough to enough to impulse buy and of interest to image conscious people.
spideymans 6y ago
>It blows my mind how successful these dime a dozen drop shipping companies based on instagram are with millenials and gen z, and buying like this will only be more normalized in the future as more people know someone who got something nice from that instagram ad. Especially with stay-at-home orders due to the pandemic, everyone (well, not everyone... but hyperbole) now has their own drop shipping brands operated out of their basements, all selling the same cheap products off of AliExpress. Will consumers catch on to what is going on? Do they even care?

georgeecollins 6y ago

Digital advertising is super effective for mobile ftp games. It is not a question if they work, it’s a question if the game can earn enough to justify the cost. Companies in that space have a super smart team of economists and data scientist constantly checking when a mobile app is worth advertising. Someone in this thread said no one has proved to them that digital ads are ever worth it. My experience is that when they are you don’t want to advertise it to potential competitors or the people who carry your ads.

qwerty456127 6y ago

> overwhelming majority of digital ad formats just don’t work Doesn't it? It may have miserable conversion rate, limited target audience but it apparently is commercially viable. People would hardly spend money on sending e-mail spam in 2020 if it didn't work.

rightbyte 6y ago
How do we not know that the spam is sent out by one sucker after the next that go until they realize it is not worth it?
chrisdinn 6y ago
I thought that at first. But like the original post points out, Uber was spending a lot of money, not just in absolute terms but in percentage terms, and it wasn't working for them. There's an allure to making something measurable and setting goals against it. Often, those goals take on a life of their own. That's what I am suggesting happened here, I guess.
kbar13 6y ago
if you read the twitter thread we see that uber was spending 10x more money than they should have on ads simply because they weren't auditing where their money was going towards. so there's evidence that people (incl uber, a market leader) do indeed spend money on ads even when it does nothing
- Hnrobert42 6y ago
  I got 0.66x, as in $100M out of $150M. I likely missed something. Where did you see 10x?
  - chrisdinn 6y ago
    $100M was labelled "fraud" in this example, but there was more waste uncovered in the remaining $50M that didn't get that label.
redisman 6y ago

cm2012 6y ago

Facebook and IG ads work. I agree that display network ads do not.

chrisdinn 6y ago
Ya for sure. I was a Googler so my examples were biased, these aren't the only ad formats that work but there are fewer than most people (even in ad tech) realize.
- cm2012 6y ago
  Yep, even FB "audience network" ads suck and are fraud ridden. Newsfeed is a fundamentally great format for ads.
  - 2sk21 6y ago
    However I have not logged into FB in six months because the actual content in my newsfeed is so toxic. I wonder if this will cause things to change, although it seems unlikely.
    - trthomps 6y ago
      I last logged into FB in 2017... never going back.

staticassertion 6y ago

Mobile devices tend not to have adblockers, so exposure might be a lot higher. Also, the only ads I've clicked are mobile ads. I've even installed apps via ad before - I've never once purchased an item from an ad online (but I've also run an adblocker for a decade). Ads certainly "work" by some metric, and some definition of "work", but I think the metric and definition is unclear.

jackcosgrove 6y ago
The only ads I click on are mobile ads, and that's because many times the X to close them is too small. Other times the ad is jumping around my screen and it steals my fingerpress.
chrisdinn 6y ago
I think CTD ads (click-to-download) are one of the exceptions. It's a great format for some cases, eg games. For game devs, trust that yours is addicting enough that you can safely show your users a competitor's game knowing they'll come back to you. For players, you were looking to play a game anyway and maybe you want to try something new. Click, download and play that instead.