7 ms·

They're not parking spots. Don't park next to a gas pump if you're not putting gas in the car, even if it has an internal combustion engine.

sandworm101 6y ago
I did exactly that this morning. I put gas in my car, paid at the pump, then walked in to buy a drink. I certainly wouldn't do that if people were waiting for the pump, but the option is there and used by drivers regularly.
- ehvatum 6y ago
  Quiet, the UK will start fining for this too if they think of it.
  - robertlagrant 6y ago
    And we should. This is obvious bad behaviour.
    - macintux 6y ago
      Depends on the context. Why waste the fuel to start and move a vehicle if there’s not enough traffic to demand a free pump?
- Rygian 6y ago
  Not sure if your implication is that you could do the same thing on any other spot (e.g. a spot for disabled, a load/unload spot, a spot reserved for police cars), as long as "people are not waiting for it". In any case, the rule I follow is to move the car where it doesn't block a scarce resource.
- orev 6y ago
  But you were a customer of the gas pump during that visit/session, so that example doesn’t apply. It would only apply if you used the pump area for parking, when other non-pump spaces were available, and you did not purchase fuel.
  - im3w1l 6y ago
    When he went in to buy a drink there was no need for his car to be buy the pump anymore. He had filled up and paid already. He remained only because it was more convinient than moving the car and then getting the drink. Depending on how many people were waiting and how long it took to get the drink, that was probably the right call.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  When I Supercharge, I get a push notification that idle fees start ($1/minute) 5 minutes after the charge completes. Econ 101: Incentives matter
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    But think of the massive infrastructure that is required to facilitate that interaction. You have to own a phone. The phone has to connect to a network. You have to have a payment plan, presumably with a credit card/bank involved. Your car has to communicate with the charge point. The charge point has to have internet. There are just so many little things that need to be installed and maintained just to deliver a few pennies worth of electricity. An alternative is to install very small/free outlets on literally every spot (something common in cold climates already). That would cover much of daily commuting. The faster charging points could be relegated to highway stations outside of town centres. Then all that complexity, those points of failure, can be abandoned in favour of the simple century-old delivery of electricity over wires. I do wonder how much electricity is used by these complex charging systems when they are not in use. How much does that charging point draw from the grid just to keep all its wifi/cell/internet systems running 24/7?
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      No, the vehicle auths with the EV charging station and my credit card is charged when the charge is complete. No phone, rfid tag, or app required. Yes, 20amp 120V outlets are great for long term parking, like airports. Those can be unmetered. Anything else would be a level 3 fast charger like a supercharger, where you have to pay to cover the demand charges of 120kw-250kw current delivery in a short period of time (15-30 minutes). Remember, most people will charge overnight at home. The electricity is the cheapest component, as you mention. You’re really just paying for the delivery infra. Regarding the idle electrical costs of signaling systems for charging stations, it’s minimal.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Not sure about these particular charging stations, but the big problem isn't people parking in a spot for 3-5 minutes while they pop into for a side. The problem is people who park in a charging spot and go shopping at the mall or grocery shopping for 45 minutes. It's no difference from using the only or last pump at the gas station and go spend 15 minutes browsing magazines, you are being an ass.
- 8note 6y ago
  If there was nobody immediately behind you waiting for the pump, would you wander off to the office to work for a few hours then come back to move your car?
SteveGerencser 6y ago
People treat gas pumps as parking spots all the time. It's even more frustrating when you are driving a diesel and the only diesel pump at the station is blocked by a gas car and the owner has wandered off to get a coffee or use the restroom, all while multiple gas pumps sit empty.
- olivermarks 6y ago
  Most petrol/gasoline stations make the majority of their money selling other products, particularly in non urban locations. Milk, newspapers, magazines etc. This business model makes refuelling stations a viable business since the margins on fuel costs are so slim. One of the challenges with the crude political attempts to force EV usage (carrot/subsidies, Stick/fines) is the lack of coherent planning behind it. What happens when/if there are huge numbers of EV's? It's a similar issue with public transport. My sister, a keen cyclist in London, now has two knee replacements and can't really cycle anymore. Public transport is a huge challenge (stairs etc) and driving in London is made ever harder with more and more bicycle lanes, concrete blocks dumped on roads and massive charges for attempting to use her car. None of this is thought through. I'd really like to see some sort of vision democratically presented for comment by citizens before these autocratic decrees and changes are introduced, we seem to have more and more ill considered plans that are not joined up imposed on us, making life harder and harder...
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Don’t EVs take longer to charge than a gas fill-up? Presumably that would be better for a model where you want people to stick around and buy things, not worse. At least in the Netherlands, there are basically mini golf carts that are legally bikes for disabled people. https://youtu.be/B9ly7JjqEb0 https://youtu.be/B9ly7JjqEb0
    - owenmarshall 6y ago
      > Presumably that would be better for a model where you want people to stick around and buy things, not worse. Gas stations occupy an interesting place in American life: some stations - often those in urban areas - are designed for “get in, grab a pack of peanuts, get out” transactions, but others in rural areas serve as a local gathering area. Pre-Covid (and, let’s be honest, even post-Covid) the gas stations near me are full of people sitting at tables eating hot food and passing time. What is amusing is that the same gas stations that encourage to have people sit and stay a while tend to be located in areas where EVs are extremely uncommon.
edgarvaldes 6y ago
Is this an American thing? To park in a gas pump for minutes after you used it?
- paledot 6y ago
  Yup. Bear in mind that the gas stations in the US tend towards the mind-bogglingly huge. 12 pumps across the street from 16 pumps is a common sight. (Speaking as a Canadian who used to cross the border a lot when business travel was a thing.)

sandworm101 6y ago

I did exactly that this morning. I put gas in my car, paid at the pump, then walked in to buy a drink. I certainly wouldn't do that if people were waiting for the pump, but the option is there and used by drivers regularly.

ehvatum 6y ago
Quiet, the UK will start fining for this too if they think of it.
- robertlagrant 6y ago
  And we should. This is obvious bad behaviour.
  - macintux 6y ago
    Depends on the context. Why waste the fuel to start and move a vehicle if there’s not enough traffic to demand a free pump?
Rygian 6y ago
Not sure if your implication is that you could do the same thing on any other spot (e.g. a spot for disabled, a load/unload spot, a spot reserved for police cars), as long as "people are not waiting for it". In any case, the rule I follow is to move the car where it doesn't block a scarce resource.
orev 6y ago
But you were a customer of the gas pump during that visit/session, so that example doesn’t apply. It would only apply if you used the pump area for parking, when other non-pump spaces were available, and you did not purchase fuel.
- im3w1l 6y ago
  When he went in to buy a drink there was no need for his car to be buy the pump anymore. He had filled up and paid already. He remained only because it was more convinient than moving the car and then getting the drink. Depending on how many people were waiting and how long it took to get the drink, that was probably the right call.
toomuchtodo 6y ago
When I Supercharge, I get a push notification that idle fees start ($1/minute) 5 minutes after the charge completes. Econ 101: Incentives matter
- sandworm101 6y ago
  But think of the massive infrastructure that is required to facilitate that interaction. You have to own a phone. The phone has to connect to a network. You have to have a payment plan, presumably with a credit card/bank involved. Your car has to communicate with the charge point. The charge point has to have internet. There are just so many little things that need to be installed and maintained just to deliver a few pennies worth of electricity. An alternative is to install very small/free outlets on literally every spot (something common in cold climates already). That would cover much of daily commuting. The faster charging points could be relegated to highway stations outside of town centres. Then all that complexity, those points of failure, can be abandoned in favour of the simple century-old delivery of electricity over wires. I do wonder how much electricity is used by these complex charging systems when they are not in use. How much does that charging point draw from the grid just to keep all its wifi/cell/internet systems running 24/7?
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    No, the vehicle auths with the EV charging station and my credit card is charged when the charge is complete. No phone, rfid tag, or app required. Yes, 20amp 120V outlets are great for long term parking, like airports. Those can be unmetered. Anything else would be a level 3 fast charger like a supercharger, where you have to pay to cover the demand charges of 120kw-250kw current delivery in a short period of time (15-30 minutes). Remember, most people will charge overnight at home. The electricity is the cheapest component, as you mention. You’re really just paying for the delivery infra. Regarding the idle electrical costs of signaling systems for charging stations, it’s minimal.
ogre_codes 6y ago
Not sure about these particular charging stations, but the big problem isn't people parking in a spot for 3-5 minutes while they pop into for a side. The problem is people who park in a charging spot and go shopping at the mall or grocery shopping for 45 minutes. It's no difference from using the only or last pump at the gas station and go spend 15 minutes browsing magazines, you are being an ass.
8note 6y ago
If there was nobody immediately behind you waiting for the pump, would you wander off to the office to work for a few hours then come back to move your car?

SteveGerencser 6y ago

People treat gas pumps as parking spots all the time. It's even more frustrating when you are driving a diesel and the only diesel pump at the station is blocked by a gas car and the owner has wandered off to get a coffee or use the restroom, all while multiple gas pumps sit empty.

olivermarks 6y ago
Most petrol/gasoline stations make the majority of their money selling other products, particularly in non urban locations. Milk, newspapers, magazines etc. This business model makes refuelling stations a viable business since the margins on fuel costs are so slim. One of the challenges with the crude political attempts to force EV usage (carrot/subsidies, Stick/fines) is the lack of coherent planning behind it. What happens when/if there are huge numbers of EV's? It's a similar issue with public transport. My sister, a keen cyclist in London, now has two knee replacements and can't really cycle anymore. Public transport is a huge challenge (stairs etc) and driving in London is made ever harder with more and more bicycle lanes, concrete blocks dumped on roads and massive charges for attempting to use her car. None of this is thought through. I'd really like to see some sort of vision democratically presented for comment by citizens before these autocratic decrees and changes are introduced, we seem to have more and more ill considered plans that are not joined up imposed on us, making life harder and harder...
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  Don’t EVs take longer to charge than a gas fill-up? Presumably that would be better for a model where you want people to stick around and buy things, not worse. At least in the Netherlands, there are basically mini golf carts that are legally bikes for disabled people. https://youtu.be/B9ly7JjqEb0 https://youtu.be/B9ly7JjqEb0
  - owenmarshall 6y ago
    > Presumably that would be better for a model where you want people to stick around and buy things, not worse. Gas stations occupy an interesting place in American life: some stations - often those in urban areas - are designed for “get in, grab a pack of peanuts, get out” transactions, but others in rural areas serve as a local gathering area. Pre-Covid (and, let’s be honest, even post-Covid) the gas stations near me are full of people sitting at tables eating hot food and passing time. What is amusing is that the same gas stations that encourage to have people sit and stay a while tend to be located in areas where EVs are extremely uncommon.

edgarvaldes 6y ago

Is this an American thing? To park in a gas pump for minutes after you used it?

paledot 6y ago
Yup. Bear in mind that the gas stations in the US tend towards the mind-bogglingly huge. 12 pumps across the street from 16 pumps is a common sight. (Speaking as a Canadian who used to cross the border a lot when business travel was a thing.)