5 ms·

What are you supposed to do if your employment contract says you’re exempt (meaning no overtime pay)?

by mcny 6y ago

p_l 6y ago
I think this is a case of culture clash between USA, where "overtime exempt" is a thing, and most of Europe, where it is required to be paid (of course, there are cases where people end up being pressured... or like me, forgot to log the overtime hours despite secretary going around with the sheet). Of course that only applies to people working on employment contracts, not those who got seduced by "B2B" :|
- jimbob45 6y ago
  It’s supposed to work both ways - I work 60 hours this week with the implicit understanding that I work 20 next week. Sure, I don’t get OT pay, but I can abide by that as long as it all balances out to 2000 hours at the end of the year. That said, the abuse of the exemption system is arguably a pandemic in the US.
  - p_l 6y ago
    The problem is that unlike with proper overtime protection, it's just an implicit understanding that is in no way guaranteed. Overtime laws generally allow taking the hours worked back as PTO. The only thing is that usually there are limits to avoid running everyone ragged with no end.
cunac 6y ago
I have a very simple philosophy `no pay no work`. It is about having self respect.
- Balgair 6y ago
  'If you're good at something, never do it for free'
j1elo 6y ago
I even had to look for what it means to "be exempt". > Exempt employees stand in contrast to non-exempt employees, which are paid minimum wage and overtime above the standard 40-hour workweek. Wow if I had heard this in a random bar discussion I would called it complete and utter bullshit. The more I read HN the more it feels like being a worker in the US is like riding a horse through the wild west; anything can happen. In my country the overtime pay is mandatory by law and it is also constrained to be a minimum of 75% more than the normal wage. Btw it is also mandatory to enjoy your (minimum of) 23 days of holidays per year; no exchanging for other perks or money, like some comment mentions above.
- greggman3 6y ago
  FYI, it goes both ways. An exempt employee chooses their own hours. If the company tries to dock them for working less they'd immediately become non-exempt.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > If the company tries to dock them for working less they'd immediately become non-exempt. This is false. First, the relevant rule that is kind of like that is the “salary basis” rule, which doesn't apply to all exempt employees; for instance, it does not apply to “Computer professionals who are paid on an hourly basis at a rate not less than $27.63 per hour.” Second, even for exempt employees subject to the salary basis test, they can be subject to workplace conduct rules requiring a set schedule and be subject to disciplinary dock for failing to comply with that conduct rule. The structure of the dock needs to make sense as a disciplinary dock and not be a de facto shift to non-salary pay, but there is absolutely no rule in US federal labor law that “an exempt employee chooses their own hours”.
    - greggman3 6y ago
      Are you sure? This department of labor letter seems to state otherwise https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/2006_05_12_15_FLSA.pdf https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/2006...
Aeolun 6y ago
Don’t work overtime?
rurp 6y ago
Look for another job. Developers have enough leverage in the job market that there's no need to put up with bad working conditions unless they want to.

What are you supposed to do if your employment contract says you’re exempt (meaning no overtime pay)?

by mcny 6y ago

What are you supposed to do if your employment contract says you’re exempt (meaning no overtime pay)?

p_l 6y ago

I think this is a case of culture clash between USA, where "overtime exempt" is a thing, and most of Europe, where it is required to be paid (of course, there are cases where people end up being pressured... or like me, forgot to log the overtime hours despite secretary going around with the sheet). Of course that only applies to people working on employment contracts, not those who got seduced by "B2B" :|

jimbob45 6y ago
It’s supposed to work both ways - I work 60 hours this week with the implicit understanding that I work 20 next week. Sure, I don’t get OT pay, but I can abide by that as long as it all balances out to 2000 hours at the end of the year. That said, the abuse of the exemption system is arguably a pandemic in the US.
- p_l 6y ago
  The problem is that unlike with proper overtime protection, it's just an implicit understanding that is in no way guaranteed. Overtime laws generally allow taking the hours worked back as PTO. The only thing is that usually there are limits to avoid running everyone ragged with no end.

cunac 6y ago

I have a very simple philosophy `no pay no work`. It is about having self respect.

Balgair 6y ago
'If you're good at something, never do it for free'

j1elo 6y ago

I even had to look for what it means to "be exempt". > Exempt employees stand in contrast to non-exempt employees, which are paid minimum wage and overtime above the standard 40-hour workweek. Wow if I had heard this in a random bar discussion I would called it complete and utter bullshit. The more I read HN the more it feels like being a worker in the US is like riding a horse through the wild west; anything can happen. In my country the overtime pay is mandatory by law and it is also constrained to be a minimum of 75% more than the normal wage. Btw it is also mandatory to enjoy your (minimum of) 23 days of holidays per year; no exchanging for other perks or money, like some comment mentions above.

greggman3 6y ago
FYI, it goes both ways. An exempt employee chooses their own hours. If the company tries to dock them for working less they'd immediately become non-exempt.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > If the company tries to dock them for working less they'd immediately become non-exempt. This is false. First, the relevant rule that is kind of like that is the “salary basis” rule, which doesn't apply to all exempt employees; for instance, it does not apply to “Computer professionals who are paid on an hourly basis at a rate not less than $27.63 per hour.” Second, even for exempt employees subject to the salary basis test, they can be subject to workplace conduct rules requiring a set schedule and be subject to disciplinary dock for failing to comply with that conduct rule. The structure of the dock needs to make sense as a disciplinary dock and not be a de facto shift to non-salary pay, but there is absolutely no rule in US federal labor law that “an exempt employee chooses their own hours”.
  - greggman3 6y ago
    Are you sure? This department of labor letter seems to state otherwise https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/2006_05_12_15_FLSA.pdf https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/2006...

Aeolun 6y ago

Don’t work overtime?

rurp 6y ago

Look for another job. Developers have enough leverage in the job market that there's no need to put up with bad working conditions unless they want to.