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And what do all three have in common? Microtubules, as predicted by Orch OR. It will take a long time for the entrenched interests heavily invested in AI to adm

And what do all three have in common? Microtubules, as predicted by Orch OR. It will take a long time for the entrenched interests heavily invested in AI to admit artificial general intelligence is not possible with classical hardware. > Within intra-protein hydrophobic regions, anesthetic gas molecules bind by London force dipole couplings, and thereby (somehow) exert their effects on consciousness. Historically, views of anesthetic action have focused on neuronal membrane proteins, but actual evidence (e.g. from genomics and proteomics), points to anesthetic action in microtubules. In the most definitive anesthetic experiment yet performed, Emerson et al. used fluorescent anthracene as an anesthetic in tadpoles, and showed cessation of tadpole behavior occurs specifically via anthracene anesthetic binding in tadpole brain microtubules. Despite prevailing assumptions, actual evidence supports anesthetic action on microtubules.[1] > I talked about paramecium, single cell organisms which could swim nimbly, find food and mates, avoid obstacles and predators, learn, and have sex, all without synapses, using their microtubules. For information capacity we calculated a billion tubulins per neuron switching at, for example, 10 megahertz, giving 1016 operations per second per neuron, 1027 ‘ops/sec’ in the brain. This pushed the AI target for brain equivalence in computers far into the future. ‘Simulate a paramecium before worrying about a brain!’, I insisted — I became unpopular among AI people, and remain so.[2] [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1571064513001188 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S157106451... [2] https://www.quantumconsciousness.org/sites/default/files/SHameroffJCSConscMicroandOrchORASpacetimeOdyssey2014.pdf https://www.quantumconsciousness.org/sites/default/files/SHa...

FartyMcFarter 6y ago
Even if that's all true, it doesn't mean that microtubules are the only way to generate strong AI. Consciousness isn't even particularly well defined, let alone proven to be a requirement for strong AI.
- nicoffeine 6y ago
  https://github.com/openworm/OpenWorm/milestone/22 https://github.com/openworm/OpenWorm/milestone/22 This is an attempt to model the behavior of a 1mm worm with 302 neurons. The idea that we are going to jump from failing at this to succeeding at something comparable to human intelligence is pretty far fetched.
  - FartyMcFarter 6y ago
    I have very limited understanding of what the OpenWorm project is doing, but it sounds like they're trying to simulate the real worm in a bottom-up manner by simulating its cells / neurons? The fact that they're struggling to do this would indicate that we're nowhere near being able to simulate a human brain bottom up. But there are other approaches being tried to implement strong AI that don't involve brain simulation - for example, machine learning approaches that don't involve any human-brain data.
dekhn 6y ago
this is garbage science with zero experimental evidence to support it.
- nicoffeine 6y ago
  Quantum biology is here to stay, even if you don't care to read about it. Consider doing at least some research before commenting. > Orch OR was harshly criticized from its inception, as the brain was considered too "warm, wet, and noisy" for seemingly delicate quantum processes. However, evidence has now shown warm quantum coherence in plant photosynthesis, bird brain navigation, our sense of smell, and brain microtubules. The recent discovery of warm temperature quantum vibrations in microtubules inside brain neurons by the research group led by Anirban Bandyopadhyay, PhD, at the National Institute of Material Sciences in Tsukuba, Japan (and now at MIT), corroborates the pair's theory and suggests that EEG rhythms also derive from deeper level microtubule vibrations. In addition, work from the laboratory of Roderick G. Eckenhoff, MD, at the University of Pennsylvania, suggests that anesthesia, which selectively erases consciousness while sparing non-conscious brain activities, acts via microtubules in brain neurons. https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/discovery-of-quantum-vibrations-in-microtubules-inside-brain-neurons-corroborates-controversial-20-year-old-theory-of-consciousness https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-j...

FartyMcFarter 6y ago

Even if that's all true, it doesn't mean that microtubules are the only way to generate strong AI. Consciousness isn't even particularly well defined, let alone proven to be a requirement for strong AI.

nicoffeine 6y ago
https://github.com/openworm/OpenWorm/milestone/22 https://github.com/openworm/OpenWorm/milestone/22 This is an attempt to model the behavior of a 1mm worm with 302 neurons. The idea that we are going to jump from failing at this to succeeding at something comparable to human intelligence is pretty far fetched.
- FartyMcFarter 6y ago
  I have very limited understanding of what the OpenWorm project is doing, but it sounds like they're trying to simulate the real worm in a bottom-up manner by simulating its cells / neurons? The fact that they're struggling to do this would indicate that we're nowhere near being able to simulate a human brain bottom up. But there are other approaches being tried to implement strong AI that don't involve brain simulation - for example, machine learning approaches that don't involve any human-brain data.

dekhn 6y ago

this is garbage science with zero experimental evidence to support it.

nicoffeine 6y ago
Quantum biology is here to stay, even if you don't care to read about it. Consider doing at least some research before commenting. > Orch OR was harshly criticized from its inception, as the brain was considered too "warm, wet, and noisy" for seemingly delicate quantum processes. However, evidence has now shown warm quantum coherence in plant photosynthesis, bird brain navigation, our sense of smell, and brain microtubules. The recent discovery of warm temperature quantum vibrations in microtubules inside brain neurons by the research group led by Anirban Bandyopadhyay, PhD, at the National Institute of Material Sciences in Tsukuba, Japan (and now at MIT), corroborates the pair's theory and suggests that EEG rhythms also derive from deeper level microtubule vibrations. In addition, work from the laboratory of Roderick G. Eckenhoff, MD, at the University of Pennsylvania, suggests that anesthesia, which selectively erases consciousness while sparing non-conscious brain activities, acts via microtubules in brain neurons. https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/discovery-of-quantum-vibrations-in-microtubules-inside-brain-neurons-corroborates-controversial-20-year-old-theory-of-consciousness https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-j...