5 ms·

This is awful. I'm sorry that happened to you. However, If Apple refuse to take actions, I will interview with major media outlets describing the experience

This is awful. I'm sorry that happened to you. However, If Apple refuse to take actions, I will interview with major media outlets describing the experience in more details and I will release a list of all individuals involved from senior management to the HR director and all the evidence as public record. You're wasting your time if you think they're going to do anything with this kind of approach. Get a lawyer first before thinking on doing any of that, though. And let this be a reminder to everyone else that HR isn't there to help you - it's there to help the company. In this kind of environment it almost feels like one needs to record everything that's happening in order to defend themselves. Cops use cameras, maybe it's time for employees to start wearing them too. Maybe.

mark_mart 6y ago
That's a very petty approach. Apple (or any company) could easily sue this guy for that threat.
- imaginenore 6y ago
  Sue for a threat to expose? On what grounds?
- ayushgp 6y ago
  Wouldn't this be protected as a whistleblower?
ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
In NY (and, I think, California), that's illegal. I found this out, because at the company at which I worked, managers kept making verbal commitments, then gaslighting me about them. I could never get them to commit in writing, and my own "reflection" emails (the standard advice about this) were worthless. I considered walking around with a little digital recorder in my pocket. But many states have explicit laws against surreptitious audio recording. I suspect that comes from politicians being caught with wires (yeah, I'm a cynic). That's why, if you get a surveillance camera that also records audio, they will usually have a card in there that tells you to post notices if you switch on the audio recorder.
- mpalmer 6y ago
  It is not illegal in New York to record a conversation if the person recording is part of the conversation (one-party consent).
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
    Huh. I did not know that. Thanks!
    - greenyoda 6y ago
      Here's a summary of NY law regarding one-party consent: https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/new-york-recording-laws/ https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-pa...
  - jonas21 6y ago
    However, it is illegal in California, where the original author was located.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- hinkley 6y ago
  By reflection emails you mean where you summarize what was said and try to get the other person to confirm them? I think those only work if you disregard any statements that don't get confirmed, and/or you twist the statements into action items that you don't prioritize until they confirm them.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
    The way that weasels (BTW: The Way of the Weasel, by Scott Adams, is downright prophetic about this kind of stuff) deal with it, is to not respond at all. Then, when you bring it up, they say “I never agreed to/said that!” If you then share the email, they say “I never got that. I would have corrected it, if I had.” Their manager always has their back on these exchanges.
x0x0 6y ago
The author is... well, I don't think interviews are going to go the way he or she thinks. To wit, reading part 1, the first paragraph boils down to "my manager was on vacation for my start date. I was provided with an onboarding buddy, who warned me that Apple is trigger happy firing folks." Para 2: manager made a likely inappropriate joke about last name. para 3: not really relevant? para 4: project was raw. para 5: onboarding buddy was not super helpful with onboarding. It may well have been the case that onboarding buddy was not an expert on the project, or that OP was hired because of his or her specific expertise on this project. etc. For better or worse, I don't think going public with this story is going to be viewed as anything but a he said / she said mess. None of which means I think Apple treated him or her well, or that the team wasn't a mess, or anything else. It may well, however, come up when googling the author's name for quite a long time. That's an additional factor to think through. It may be the best outcome for the author is to leave this behind, seek some therapy to help move on, and get a job at a company that doesn't treat him or her like this.
- worker767424 6y ago
  Agreed. This is really only interesting to journalists if they're building a story like the NYT/Amazon one a few years back. > googling the author's name for quite a long time Yup. Especially for someone with one year of experience and needing a visa, this isn't a good look.
- romanovcode 6y ago
  I actually don't get what's the problem here. I manage a team and one time I booked a vacation and then we hired a guy. He quit (he was the only person to ever quit that was working under me, company is treating employees good) and said in the review that this was horrible from my side. Am I not suppose to take a vacation ever?
  - jiggawatts 6y ago
    You can take vacations whenever you want, but you can't hire new staff and just let them twist in the wind concurrently with you taking time off. Holidays are planned ahead. Don't hire at the same time. Easy.
pavel_lishin 6y ago
OP is seemingly banking on being better at marketing than Apple is. I don't think it's a smart bet.

mark_mart 6y ago

That's a very petty approach. Apple (or any company) could easily sue this guy for that threat.

imaginenore 6y ago
Sue for a threat to expose? On what grounds?
ayushgp 6y ago
Wouldn't this be protected as a whistleblower?

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

In NY (and, I think, California), that's illegal. I found this out, because at the company at which I worked, managers kept making verbal commitments, then gaslighting me about them. I could never get them to commit in writing, and my own "reflection" emails (the standard advice about this) were worthless. I considered walking around with a little digital recorder in my pocket. But many states have explicit laws against surreptitious audio recording. I suspect that comes from politicians being caught with wires (yeah, I'm a cynic). That's why, if you get a surveillance camera that also records audio, they will usually have a card in there that tells you to post notices if you switch on the audio recorder.

mpalmer 6y ago
It is not illegal in New York to record a conversation if the person recording is part of the conversation (one-party consent).
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  Huh. I did not know that. Thanks!
  - greenyoda 6y ago
    Here's a summary of NY law regarding one-party consent: https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/new-york-recording-laws/ https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-pa...
- jonas21 6y ago
  However, it is illegal in California, where the original author was located.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
hinkley 6y ago
By reflection emails you mean where you summarize what was said and try to get the other person to confirm them? I think those only work if you disregard any statements that don't get confirmed, and/or you twist the statements into action items that you don't prioritize until they confirm them.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  The way that weasels (BTW: The Way of the Weasel, by Scott Adams, is downright prophetic about this kind of stuff) deal with it, is to not respond at all. Then, when you bring it up, they say “I never agreed to/said that!” If you then share the email, they say “I never got that. I would have corrected it, if I had.” Their manager always has their back on these exchanges.

x0x0 6y ago

The author is... well, I don't think interviews are going to go the way he or she thinks. To wit, reading part 1, the first paragraph boils down to "my manager was on vacation for my start date. I was provided with an onboarding buddy, who warned me that Apple is trigger happy firing folks." Para 2: manager made a likely inappropriate joke about last name. para 3: not really relevant? para 4: project was raw. para 5: onboarding buddy was not super helpful with onboarding. It may well have been the case that onboarding buddy was not an expert on the project, or that OP was hired because of his or her specific expertise on this project. etc. For better or worse, I don't think going public with this story is going to be viewed as anything but a he said / she said mess. None of which means I think Apple treated him or her well, or that the team wasn't a mess, or anything else. It may well, however, come up when googling the author's name for quite a long time. That's an additional factor to think through. It may be the best outcome for the author is to leave this behind, seek some therapy to help move on, and get a job at a company that doesn't treat him or her like this.

worker767424 6y ago
Agreed. This is really only interesting to journalists if they're building a story like the NYT/Amazon one a few years back. > googling the author's name for quite a long time Yup. Especially for someone with one year of experience and needing a visa, this isn't a good look.
romanovcode 6y ago
I actually don't get what's the problem here. I manage a team and one time I booked a vacation and then we hired a guy. He quit (he was the only person to ever quit that was working under me, company is treating employees good) and said in the review that this was horrible from my side. Am I not suppose to take a vacation ever?
- jiggawatts 6y ago
  You can take vacations whenever you want, but you can't hire new staff and just let them twist in the wind concurrently with you taking time off. Holidays are planned ahead. Don't hire at the same time. Easy.

pavel_lishin 6y ago

OP is seemingly banking on being better at marketing than Apple is. I don't think it's a smart bet.