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I think for most people the question is whether there are reasons to think Apple's internal environment fosters this kind of behaviour. You can imagine a compa

I think for most people the question is whether there are reasons to think Apple's internal environment fosters this kind of behaviour. You can imagine a company of that size has a huge number of teams, some where everything is just dandy, some with terrible issues like yours and the author's. But is there something corporate-wide about Apple that makes you think what you went through was common, or the opposite (ie that you were unlucky)? You can ask the same about all the large techs.

vp8989 6y ago
The secretive nature of their product development and the supposed "allure" of being an employee there seem like they would combine to enable particularly douchey forms of management.
arcatech 6y ago
The internal culture was influenced by Steve Jobs. He was widely known for being an asshole who also happened to be an excellent salesman with a really good design sense. That's Apple.
- coldtea 6y ago
  Sure, but I've never read an as-toxic Jobs story / exchange, as the things in this story...
- throwaway8193 6y ago
  Exactly--Jobs was a raging asshole, and that became what the managers looked up to as the example of what brings success. During my time there, the assholes were the ones rewarded and promoted, and thus became the promoters, and the people with a shred of decency and empathy who just wanted to be good and do good work were marginalized and not rewarded. It's up and down the chain from VP level down to the first level managers.
- m0llusk 6y ago
  That isn't really true. Steve Jobs was no nonsense, but was most often merely direct rather than rude. One thing which Steve Jobs did do was go to great length to assemble highly qualified teams for missions that were clearly stated and understood and which all involved agreed were worthwhile even if there might be quibbles over details. The Apple that rescued itself from near death with colorful and fun designs and then released a BSD derived OS was very different from the modern Apple where contributors joust for top status without much if any existential threat.
  - dingaling 6y ago
    Direct is basically a euphemism for rude, in that it indicates lack of empathy. It might not intentionally be so, but usually shows that the speaker puts other priorities ahead of the emotional state of the recipient.
    - andreilys 6y ago
      One can be both empathetic and direct. Jobs was highly empathetic, it’s why he was able to understand the customer so well and why he was famous for saying “the customer doesn’t know what they want”. Understanding someone’s emotional state does not mean you need to coddle them.
    - heavenlyblue 6y ago
      I have found that people who harbour opinions like these usually just aren’t very good at realising how bad they are at what they are doing in the first place. So they need the niceness to keep the false assumption that they are not that bad. Sometimes the emotional state of the recipient is just a function of how grown up they are.
  - rgarrett88 6y ago
    Read his biography. He was abusive and got shit done.
    - ex_Apple_throw 6y ago

vp8989 6y ago

The secretive nature of their product development and the supposed "allure" of being an employee there seem like they would combine to enable particularly douchey forms of management.

arcatech 6y ago

The internal culture was influenced by Steve Jobs. He was widely known for being an asshole who also happened to be an excellent salesman with a really good design sense. That's Apple.

coldtea 6y ago
Sure, but I've never read an as-toxic Jobs story / exchange, as the things in this story...
throwaway8193 6y ago
Exactly--Jobs was a raging asshole, and that became what the managers looked up to as the example of what brings success. During my time there, the assholes were the ones rewarded and promoted, and thus became the promoters, and the people with a shred of decency and empathy who just wanted to be good and do good work were marginalized and not rewarded. It's up and down the chain from VP level down to the first level managers.
m0llusk 6y ago
That isn't really true. Steve Jobs was no nonsense, but was most often merely direct rather than rude. One thing which Steve Jobs did do was go to great length to assemble highly qualified teams for missions that were clearly stated and understood and which all involved agreed were worthwhile even if there might be quibbles over details. The Apple that rescued itself from near death with colorful and fun designs and then released a BSD derived OS was very different from the modern Apple where contributors joust for top status without much if any existential threat.
- dingaling 6y ago
  Direct is basically a euphemism for rude, in that it indicates lack of empathy. It might not intentionally be so, but usually shows that the speaker puts other priorities ahead of the emotional state of the recipient.
  - andreilys 6y ago
    One can be both empathetic and direct. Jobs was highly empathetic, it’s why he was able to understand the customer so well and why he was famous for saying “the customer doesn’t know what they want”. Understanding someone’s emotional state does not mean you need to coddle them.
  - heavenlyblue 6y ago
    I have found that people who harbour opinions like these usually just aren’t very good at realising how bad they are at what they are doing in the first place. So they need the niceness to keep the false assumption that they are not that bad. Sometimes the emotional state of the recipient is just a function of how grown up they are.
- rgarrett88 6y ago
  Read his biography. He was abusive and got shit done.
  - ex_Apple_throw 6y ago