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The core thesis behind the program is exciting. The bike industry in America exists primarily serve a relatively small group of enthusiasts, but it doesn't have

The core thesis behind the program is exciting. The bike industry in America exists primarily serve a relatively small group of enthusiasts, but it doesn't have to. There's no equivalent to the Dutch department store bikes that, if memory serves correctly, were cheap but simple, low-maintenance, and better outfitted for casual riding (fenders, a light, a lock). As the article suggests, I suspect it's more a problem of distribution. If IDEO suggested a $500 bike to be sold to casual riders at their local bike shop, well, that already exists. What doesn't exist (but could?) is a $275 steel three-speed at Walmart that's less performance-oriented than a $500 Trek but more practical than a beach cruiser.

soared 6y ago
I agree. It almost seems like Shimano was trying to get all the benefits of a single speed (low maintenance, reliable, zero-though when riding), but with gears. Single speeds are amazingly cheap, simple, near-zero maintenance.. but are not good for casual riders unless your city/metro is very flat.
- jablan 6y ago
  IGH are not much more complicated than SS.
  - analog31 6y ago
    Indeed, I ride both, and the complexity of dealing with the gearing is negligible.
- nradov 6y ago
  In my experience the reliability of single speed bikes is overstated. Several times when I rented or borrowed single speeds the chain kept dropping when I pedaled hard over rough roads. Sure that problem can be prevented through proper maintenance but in some circumstances it's sure nice to have a proper derailleur maintaining chain tension.
  - soared 6y ago
    The chain should be tensioned enough to be impossible to fall off, so those bikes were just not set up correctly. But that is still a good point about problems people can have with bikes.
medium_burrito 6y ago
There are a number of problems for biking in the US, but first among them is we don't have separate bike paths. All the other problems like showers at work, rampant bike theft even from secure storage behind multiple keyed doors at fancy tech companies, excessive spandex are secondary. Cycling as an activity has gone way upmarket in the last 30 years, as there aren't many new people in the sport and the main demographic is wealth older guys who spend obscene money on bikes. The classic case is "Fat bikes", which were the unexpected success story a few years ago, and took over the industry by storm. All the sudden a ton of guys are getting another $4k bike, and people like me who always bought used aluminum or steel frames for racing (won't explode like carbon- have seen this happen multiple times, won't cost much to replace). The number of wealthy men in their 50s I know with $20+k of bikes is amazing. Sure, it's better than buying a fancy car, but it's a change from when I was a kid and most guys just had their commuter bike and road bike.
- zachrose 6y ago
  Yes, very much so, but the problems are self-fulfilling: no infrastructure because not enough riders, not enough riders because bikes are unstylish and expensive, etc. But this also means that improving anything is a step towards improving everything.
  - medium_burrito 6y ago
    There were tons of younger riders both in the 90s and 2000s- one wave from mountain biking (when Americans were good at it, so there was enthusiasm) and fixies, which were cheap and cool and durable. Fixies especially seemed like they would usher in more urban cycling (especially with people switching to singlespeed, but keeping the cool look), and messenger culture was a thing. There was no specialized equipment, except for perhaps tight jeans and moustache (optional for women). However, no matter go interested people are, eventually reality hits you like a truck, or car door as the case may be, and your third bike gets stolen, and you get sick of it. People would definitely use the infrastructure- there's no shortage of people who like to rides bikes, but are sick of dealing with crazy drivers and potholes and car doors and fedex/prime trucks parked wherever in the middle of the road.
brudgers 6y ago
A good approximation of the geographic similarity between the Netherlands and US is the degree to which Baghdad is considered in the Geography of the Netherlands. At least insofar as Alaska and Hawaii are ignored. The UN member state equivalence abstraction does not shrink the practical differences in physical reality. Dutch transport infrastructure is built to a much smaller scale because that’s what’s politically warranted. It can ignore problems of the Alps, Caucuses, and Balkins.
analog31 6y ago
>>>>> There's no equivalent to the Dutch department store bikes that, if memory serves correctly, were cheap but simple, low-maintenance, and better outfitted for casual riding (fenders, a light, a lock). Schwinn made such bikes for decades. Folks stopped buying them.
- zachrose 6y ago
  Interesting, do you know what they were called?
  - kbrosnan 6y ago
    They were not all exactly like Dutch bikes. Though they were inexpensive and fairly common through the mid 80s Stuff like the Breeze, Speedster, Suburban, etc. See https://bikehistory.org/ https://bikehistory.org/ for a lot more examples.
  - analog31 6y ago
    Indeed, the styling was different, but the concept was similar. Here is just one example. https://waterfordbikes.com/SchwinnCat/flschwinn_1961_1970/1961dlr_Tornado_girls.html https://waterfordbikes.com/SchwinnCat/flschwinn_1961_1970/19... They also had a delivery bike that almost anticipates the modern baekfiets. And some department stores such as Sears and Wards had similar lines at somewhat lower prices. I have a early 60s Schwinn that is still in good working order despite no maintenance other than lubrication and new tires.
  - petre 6y ago
    Clunkers. The early MTB pioneers were racing them downhill in SoCal during the mid 70s. The bikes had coaster brakes which failed often with that kind if usage. Then they invented the MTB and everything changed. Electra still makes them but they're quite heavy and too expensive. One could buy a much more useful urban IGH or 1x derailleur bike for the same amount. Like a Kona Dew.
    - analog31 6y ago
      Indeed, I own a 60's clunker, and enjoy having it for the experience and audacity of riding it, but you take the basic clunker concept and replace every piece with its modern counterpart, and now you've got a much better bike. For instance I wouldn't build up a new bike with steel rims, or expect any kind of performance out of a coaster brake.

soared 6y ago

I agree. It almost seems like Shimano was trying to get all the benefits of a single speed (low maintenance, reliable, zero-though when riding), but with gears. Single speeds are amazingly cheap, simple, near-zero maintenance.. but are not good for casual riders unless your city/metro is very flat.

jablan 6y ago
IGH are not much more complicated than SS.
- analog31 6y ago
  Indeed, I ride both, and the complexity of dealing with the gearing is negligible.
nradov 6y ago
In my experience the reliability of single speed bikes is overstated. Several times when I rented or borrowed single speeds the chain kept dropping when I pedaled hard over rough roads. Sure that problem can be prevented through proper maintenance but in some circumstances it's sure nice to have a proper derailleur maintaining chain tension.
- soared 6y ago
  The chain should be tensioned enough to be impossible to fall off, so those bikes were just not set up correctly. But that is still a good point about problems people can have with bikes.

medium_burrito 6y ago

There are a number of problems for biking in the US, but first among them is we don't have separate bike paths. All the other problems like showers at work, rampant bike theft even from secure storage behind multiple keyed doors at fancy tech companies, excessive spandex are secondary. Cycling as an activity has gone way upmarket in the last 30 years, as there aren't many new people in the sport and the main demographic is wealth older guys who spend obscene money on bikes. The classic case is "Fat bikes", which were the unexpected success story a few years ago, and took over the industry by storm. All the sudden a ton of guys are getting another $4k bike, and people like me who always bought used aluminum or steel frames for racing (won't explode like carbon- have seen this happen multiple times, won't cost much to replace). The number of wealthy men in their 50s I know with $20+k of bikes is amazing. Sure, it's better than buying a fancy car, but it's a change from when I was a kid and most guys just had their commuter bike and road bike.

zachrose 6y ago
Yes, very much so, but the problems are self-fulfilling: no infrastructure because not enough riders, not enough riders because bikes are unstylish and expensive, etc. But this also means that improving anything is a step towards improving everything.
- medium_burrito 6y ago
  There were tons of younger riders both in the 90s and 2000s- one wave from mountain biking (when Americans were good at it, so there was enthusiasm) and fixies, which were cheap and cool and durable. Fixies especially seemed like they would usher in more urban cycling (especially with people switching to singlespeed, but keeping the cool look), and messenger culture was a thing. There was no specialized equipment, except for perhaps tight jeans and moustache (optional for women). However, no matter go interested people are, eventually reality hits you like a truck, or car door as the case may be, and your third bike gets stolen, and you get sick of it. People would definitely use the infrastructure- there's no shortage of people who like to rides bikes, but are sick of dealing with crazy drivers and potholes and car doors and fedex/prime trucks parked wherever in the middle of the road.

brudgers 6y ago

A good approximation of the geographic similarity between the Netherlands and US is the degree to which Baghdad is considered in the Geography of the Netherlands. At least insofar as Alaska and Hawaii are ignored. The UN member state equivalence abstraction does not shrink the practical differences in physical reality. Dutch transport infrastructure is built to a much smaller scale because that’s what’s politically warranted. It can ignore problems of the Alps, Caucuses, and Balkins.

analog31 6y ago

>>>>> There's no equivalent to the Dutch department store bikes that, if memory serves correctly, were cheap but simple, low-maintenance, and better outfitted for casual riding (fenders, a light, a lock). Schwinn made such bikes for decades. Folks stopped buying them.

zachrose 6y ago
Interesting, do you know what they were called?
- kbrosnan 6y ago
  They were not all exactly like Dutch bikes. Though they were inexpensive and fairly common through the mid 80s Stuff like the Breeze, Speedster, Suburban, etc. See https://bikehistory.org/ https://bikehistory.org/ for a lot more examples.
- analog31 6y ago
  Indeed, the styling was different, but the concept was similar. Here is just one example. https://waterfordbikes.com/SchwinnCat/flschwinn_1961_1970/1961dlr_Tornado_girls.html https://waterfordbikes.com/SchwinnCat/flschwinn_1961_1970/19... They also had a delivery bike that almost anticipates the modern baekfiets. And some department stores such as Sears and Wards had similar lines at somewhat lower prices. I have a early 60s Schwinn that is still in good working order despite no maintenance other than lubrication and new tires.
- petre 6y ago
  Clunkers. The early MTB pioneers were racing them downhill in SoCal during the mid 70s. The bikes had coaster brakes which failed often with that kind if usage. Then they invented the MTB and everything changed. Electra still makes them but they're quite heavy and too expensive. One could buy a much more useful urban IGH or 1x derailleur bike for the same amount. Like a Kona Dew.
  - analog31 6y ago
    Indeed, I own a 60's clunker, and enjoy having it for the experience and audacity of riding it, but you take the basic clunker concept and replace every piece with its modern counterpart, and now you've got a much better bike. For instance I wouldn't build up a new bike with steel rims, or expect any kind of performance out of a coaster brake.