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Kind of misleading title – what isn’t planned to be supported is installing PWA:s as standalone apps on desktop Firefox: https://twitter.com/englishmossop/statu

Kind of misleading title – what isn’t planned to be supported is installing PWA:s as standalone apps on desktop Firefox: https://twitter.com/englishmossop/status/1344428028315590656?s=21 https://twitter.com/englishmossop/status/1344428028315590656... Service Workers, push notifications and such are still supported. And I believe you can install PWA:s on Firefox for Android?

ksec 6y ago
Yes and I thought it make sense. Do people not just use Electron App on Desktop? I mean the App would be packaged as such most consumer wont even notice. And I thought some of the comments in the Bug Tracker were quite hostile.
- tehbeard 6y ago
  > Do people not just use Electron App on Desktop It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. Shipping just the app code and using the runtime (edge or chrome i guess, would've been nice to have firefox as a modern xulrunner successor) on the end users machine makes more sense to me.
  - tuukkah 6y ago
    And it's not just the number of installs but also multitasking of multiple browser engines exhausting RAM on typically 16GB laptops.
  - pedro2 6y ago
    For Windows Chredge/Edgium is planned to support that via Microsoft’s something-something API which allows to declare Electronesque-mode for a app and get independent updates to the common Electron layer (and hopefully, reduce memory usage). I don’t recall if such is only available via Windows Store or is only dependent on APPX (which correlates but does not depend on Windows Store - at least not on the server side of it)
    - thefounder 6y ago
      Any idea if it will support CORS bypass?
    - merb 6y ago
      I never heard of an api from microsoft that has an electron layer. I know of webview2 runtime, but that does not work that well in appx/msix packages. also chakra that could've been close to that is deprecated.
      - pedro2 6y ago
        And I can't seem to find it. As soon as I do I'll post here for you to double check, I may have misunderstood.
      - pedro2 6y ago
        Hum I may have misunderstood the model. I was thinking of this, but there is no mention of Electron anywhere on the docs. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mspoweruser.com/windows-10-2004s-new-hosted-app-model-is-pretty-great/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/mspoweruser.com/windows-10-2004...
      - pedro2 6y ago
        Ok the Electron part was from HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22773785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22773785
        merb 6y ago
        oh wow that was helpful, ok there is a uap10:HostRuntime, unfortunatly the same problem than the webview2 has, you need to package your runtime so that it works with the appx model, which is not always the case and thus you need to create your own "runtime" package if there is no electron runtime package that is inside the windows store. basically if nobody provides an up to date hostruntime package, it will be the same case as it is now.
  - qalmakka 6y ago
    There's a lot of buzz lately about flash player being retired. Why couldn't Electron copy its approach? Install a single runtime and run all your apps on it (like Archlinux already does, btw); problem solved. It's pretty much how the JVM or .NET have worked for decades. I understand people don't care about supporting multiple version of the runtime, but there should be a way to reduce the cruft of multiple bundled Chromiums on systems that might have storage constraints (thanks Apple and soldered SSDs)
    - masklinn 6y ago
      > There's a lot of buzz lately about flash player being retired. Why couldn't Electron copy its approach? Certainly can't work on mobile platforms where everything is sandboxed.
      - nicoburns 6y ago
        Electron doesn't run on mobile platforms anyway.
        VoxPelli 6y ago
        There are Electron like tools for mobile platforms though
        nicoburns 6y ago
        True, but most of them already share the runtime, partly because iOS doesn't let you do it any other way if you want JITed JavaScript.
    - alexhutcheson 6y ago
      The JVM world is moving away from that approach. The current recommendation is to use jlink[1] to build a custom runtime image, which doesn’t depend on a JRE being present on the system.
      - 6y ago
  - sirius87 6y ago
    Linux Mint's take on this in it's next release seems the most appealing to me. It's based on "Peppermint Ice" [1] "WebApp Manager" uses the Chrome/Chromium/FF installed on your machine and creates a separate browser profile for each "WebApp" you configure and launches the "app" or "site-specific browser" in a new window. Details: [2][3] Works well for simple sites where you're mostly visiting links in the same site, like Youtube. [1] https://youtu.be/UCzL8P3WDd4?t=407 https://youtu.be/UCzL8P3WDd4?t=407 [2] https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3960 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3960 [3] https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager
    - phil294 6y ago
      This looks great! But am I right to assume it makes use of FF's SSB feature – now being removed – and will thus soon stop working?
      - sirius87 6y ago
        Not sure. That bug report discussed the --app switch, but I don't see that switch being used by webapp-manager [1] Not sure --class is related. [1] https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager/blob/4a879d11ef243c253f7d609fe814c33eb37c360b/usr/lib/webapp-manager/common.py#L167 https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager/blob/4a879d11ef2...
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    It makes sense as long as forward and backward compatibility are maintained perfectly. If a future version of the runtime breaks something in your application you suddenly lose a lot of the value of this kind of packaging. Ditto if you make an application that uses features only available in the latest runtime.
    - neodymiumphish 6y ago
      I imagine you could declare which runtime version is known to work, and then force a compatibility mode with that declaration?
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        Sure, but ask yourself why that isn't true of every library and runtime that exists today and you'll see how messy reality messes up the theory.
  - pcmaffey 6y ago
    Or just run them in the browser...
    - postalrat 6y ago
      I do. But it's often nice to be able to manage them like an app in the operating system. For example being open them with a command (such as spotlight for mac or searching by name in windows). Always having their own icon in the task bar. Even missing all the chrome around the app window is nice since it reduces clutter and eliminates parts you may accidentally click on.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      When COVID forced us to work from home, I initially resisted installing Slack on my computer. I don't like Electron, and I'd set up my machine such that installing Electron apps was technically difficult anyway. IMO, the UX was horrible. I tried to keep Slack as a pinned Firefox tab, but it was far too easy to accidentally move over to a different website, at which point I stopped getting notifications. I also felt like I had to constantly keep my web browser open—I can't say why that's substantially different than having to keep a Slack application open, but for some reason, the separate dock icon helps me to mentally compartmentalize. When I finally switched to a standalone Slack app, it felt much nicer.
      - samb1729 6y ago
        If you would like to try an alternative Slack client which doesn't require Electron, give Ripcord[0] a try. I'm not affiliated in any way, just a happy user. If you really wanted, it's so lightweight that you could use it just to consistently receive notifications that prompt you to check your pinned tab. [0]: https://cancel.fm/ripcord/ https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
        O1111OOO 6y ago
        From the website: "Shareware is coming back, baby." I've been on Linux for a while now and have not come across the word shareware in a long time. Odd the it makes me feel nostalgic and (oddly) hopeful (that is: a business model that doesn't rely on tracking, ads or some nebulous behind the scenes actions to monetize you). Nice, straightforward, simple business transaction. Software sales (especially shareware) is really tough. Wish the author some success for his efforts.
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    > It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. Especially considering that old versions of Chromium are likely to have more security vulnerabilities. On the iOS platform, Apple essentially forbids the use of any browser engine other than the WebKit/Nitro engine provided by the OS itself. From the user's point of view this has the advantage of guaranteeing the absence of old and vulnerable browser engines on their system (provided they're up to date with iOS updates, and of course provided Apple hold up their end and maintain their software well). As AnIdiotOnTheNet points out, this requires app vendors to stay on top of testing their app as the iOS browser engine is updated by Apple.
  - O1111OOO 6y ago
    > It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. It's why I liked Microsoft's HTA (HTML Application) approach: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536496(v=vs.85) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536496(... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536495(v=vs.85) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536495(... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_Application https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_Application It had lots of potential but never really took off. Looking at Sciter[0] as a lightweight Electron alternative (and a modern HTA replacement). [0] https://sciter.com/ https://sciter.com/
- input_sh 6y ago
  I'd prefer one Firefox tab in a standalone window (for example: Slack) instead of booting an instance of a different browser. Granted, I could always have that tab in a separate window, but that groups it with other Firefox windows, making it harder to navigate to when compared to PWA.
- K0nserv 6y ago
  There's another angle to this that was discussed on the Risky Business[0] podcast a while back, namely the security angle. As the recent Microsoft Team's vulnerability[1] illustrated, with many Electron apps any XSS vulnerability turns into RCE. Personally I am moving away from Slack, Discord, and other electron apps like them. The browser sandbox ensures that XSS is "only" XSS and doesn't turn into RCE as well. 0: https://www.risky.biz/ https://www.risky.biz/ 1: https://github.com/oskarsve/ms-teams-rce https://github.com/oskarsve/ms-teams-rce
- tziki 6y ago
  Electron has a number of problems. First, as already mentioned, any XSS turns into much more serious RCE bug. Second, the bloat. Third, on platforms like MacOS you're encouraged (soon required) to obtain a code signing certificate, which costs money and time and is often unfeasible for someone developing a simple app, compared to web. Finally, another security issue is/was that Electron releases lag behind the official Chrome releases (although nowadays this is much better).
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  > Do people not just use Electron App on Desktop? This is precisely why Firefox should support adding websites as desktop apps. Electron is Chromium. Anyone who installs Slack as a desktop app is using Chromium. The more people who use Chromium, the less incentive Slack has to make their website compatible with anything which isn't than Chromium, which is presumably why you can't, for instance, make Slack calls in a browser other than Chrome or Edge. If the purpose of Firefox is to give Mozilla a say in the direction of the web, they should be supporting and encouraging users to install websites as "apps" through Firefox.
seba_dos1 6y ago
Desktop Firefox is also a mobile Firefox on GNU/Linux mobile platforms though.
- VoxPelli 6y ago
  Well, those mobile platforms are yet to mature. So the “mobile Firefox” there isn’t really a mobile Firefox just the desktop browser used in a mobile context? Or does Mozilla support such platforms in any official way? Even the Android Firefox app just got fairly recently rebuilt, mobile isn’t really Mozilla’s strong game after they shut down Firefox OS (which though strangely lives on as KaiOS) Also: Both Android and Jolla are also Linux based
  - fsflover 6y ago
    > Both Android and Jolla are also Linux based AFAIK the kernel plays practically no role in how a browser works.
    - VoxPelli 6y ago
      Yeah, was a pointless nitpick from me, had a smilie in there but Hacker News apparently removes those. On your comment though: I think maybe MacOS Big Sur disagrees with you: https://twitter.com/voxpelli/status/1343323353294262272?s=21 https://twitter.com/voxpelli/status/1343323353294262272?s=21 Not sure if kernel level or other level, but it sure has made eg VS Code pretty slow for some people ;)
freebuju 6y ago
Who is to say PWA on mobile isn't next?
coffeefirst 6y ago
Right. This is hardly the death of PWAs. It just means the PWA experience will just be a shortcut to a regular browser tab. Which is fine. The Single-Site Browser experience, putting an icon on the desktop that opens a browser with no url bar, extensions, back button, or any of the other features of the browser, isn't actually good. There's a better way to approach web apps with notifications and offline support.
BadInformatics 6y ago
From the issue thread: > If there is some hard data somewhere we've missed that shows we would gain more market share by implementing [SSB] than other projects then that would sure be useful though! This is a rare opportunity for everyone on HN disappointed about this removal (myself included) to put together a convincing argument with data about how important PWA desktop integration could be. The pessimist in me thinks there's just going to be more derision and complaints without action though. Hoping to be proven wrong.
thayne 6y ago
According to MDN (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web_apps https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web...) a PWAs are "are web apps that use emerging web browser APIs and features along with traditional progressive enhancement strategy to bring a native app-like user experience to cross-platform web applications." I would consider being able to install the app to the homescreen part of having a "native app-like user experience". And installing to homescreen is listed as part of PWA on that MDN page.
- VoxPelli 6y ago
  It’s a “progressive” web app though, so such a one is never all or nothing. Pretty much: Have a Service Worker and/or a Web Manifest and you are well on your way to claim to have a PWA
- e12e 6y ago
  > I would consider being able to install the app to the homescreen part of having a "native app-like user experience There's some more relevant discussion on this bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1407202 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1407202 For now you can supply --ssb on the command line - but I suppose that will go away, if the feature discussed in op is axed (it's not entirely clear to me if axing the pefrence/feature flag includes axing the command line flag - but it seems so). At any rate - most desktop os' should allow shortcuts to urls - so should support "installing" apps.
  - thayne 6y ago
    > At any rate - most desktop os' should allow shortcuts to urls - so should support "installing" apps. That's just part of it though. What about hiding browser chrome, or making sure it opens as a new window instead of a new tab, or having seperate window preferences (such as size and location) for it? And I believe one goal of PWA is that "installed" apps have additional permissions, such as being able to use keyboard shortcuts that are normally reserved.

ksec 6y ago

Yes and I thought it make sense. Do people not just use Electron App on Desktop? I mean the App would be packaged as such most consumer wont even notice. And I thought some of the comments in the Bug Tracker were quite hostile.

tehbeard 6y ago
> Do people not just use Electron App on Desktop It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. Shipping just the app code and using the runtime (edge or chrome i guess, would've been nice to have firefox as a modern xulrunner successor) on the end users machine makes more sense to me.
- tuukkah 6y ago
  And it's not just the number of installs but also multitasking of multiple browser engines exhausting RAM on typically 16GB laptops.
- pedro2 6y ago
  For Windows Chredge/Edgium is planned to support that via Microsoft’s something-something API which allows to declare Electronesque-mode for a app and get independent updates to the common Electron layer (and hopefully, reduce memory usage). I don’t recall if such is only available via Windows Store or is only dependent on APPX (which correlates but does not depend on Windows Store - at least not on the server side of it)
  - thefounder 6y ago
    Any idea if it will support CORS bypass?
  - merb 6y ago
    I never heard of an api from microsoft that has an electron layer. I know of webview2 runtime, but that does not work that well in appx/msix packages. also chakra that could've been close to that is deprecated.
    - pedro2 6y ago
      And I can't seem to find it. As soon as I do I'll post here for you to double check, I may have misunderstood.
    - pedro2 6y ago
      Hum I may have misunderstood the model. I was thinking of this, but there is no mention of Electron anywhere on the docs. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mspoweruser.com/windows-10-2004s-new-hosted-app-model-is-pretty-great/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/mspoweruser.com/windows-10-2004...
    - pedro2 6y ago
      Ok the Electron part was from HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22773785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22773785
      - merb 6y ago
        oh wow that was helpful, ok there is a uap10:HostRuntime, unfortunatly the same problem than the webview2 has, you need to package your runtime so that it works with the appx model, which is not always the case and thus you need to create your own "runtime" package if there is no electron runtime package that is inside the windows store. basically if nobody provides an up to date hostruntime package, it will be the same case as it is now.
- qalmakka 6y ago
  There's a lot of buzz lately about flash player being retired. Why couldn't Electron copy its approach? Install a single runtime and run all your apps on it (like Archlinux already does, btw); problem solved. It's pretty much how the JVM or .NET have worked for decades. I understand people don't care about supporting multiple version of the runtime, but there should be a way to reduce the cruft of multiple bundled Chromiums on systems that might have storage constraints (thanks Apple and soldered SSDs)
  - masklinn 6y ago
    > There's a lot of buzz lately about flash player being retired. Why couldn't Electron copy its approach? Certainly can't work on mobile platforms where everything is sandboxed.
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      Electron doesn't run on mobile platforms anyway.
      - VoxPelli 6y ago
        There are Electron like tools for mobile platforms though
        nicoburns 6y ago
        True, but most of them already share the runtime, partly because iOS doesn't let you do it any other way if you want JITed JavaScript.
  - alexhutcheson 6y ago
    The JVM world is moving away from that approach. The current recommendation is to use jlink[1] to build a custom runtime image, which doesn’t depend on a JRE being present on the system.
    - 6y ago
- sirius87 6y ago
  Linux Mint's take on this in it's next release seems the most appealing to me. It's based on "Peppermint Ice" [1] "WebApp Manager" uses the Chrome/Chromium/FF installed on your machine and creates a separate browser profile for each "WebApp" you configure and launches the "app" or "site-specific browser" in a new window. Details: [2][3] Works well for simple sites where you're mostly visiting links in the same site, like Youtube. [1] https://youtu.be/UCzL8P3WDd4?t=407 https://youtu.be/UCzL8P3WDd4?t=407 [2] https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3960 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3960 [3] https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager
  - phil294 6y ago
    This looks great! But am I right to assume it makes use of FF's SSB feature – now being removed – and will thus soon stop working?
    - sirius87 6y ago
      Not sure. That bug report discussed the --app switch, but I don't see that switch being used by webapp-manager [1] Not sure --class is related. [1] https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager/blob/4a879d11ef243c253f7d609fe814c33eb37c360b/usr/lib/webapp-manager/common.py#L167 https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager/blob/4a879d11ef2...
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  It makes sense as long as forward and backward compatibility are maintained perfectly. If a future version of the runtime breaks something in your application you suddenly lose a lot of the value of this kind of packaging. Ditto if you make an application that uses features only available in the latest runtime.
  - neodymiumphish 6y ago
    I imagine you could declare which runtime version is known to work, and then force a compatibility mode with that declaration?
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      Sure, but ask yourself why that isn't true of every library and runtime that exists today and you'll see how messy reality messes up the theory.
- pcmaffey 6y ago
  Or just run them in the browser...
  - postalrat 6y ago
    I do. But it's often nice to be able to manage them like an app in the operating system. For example being open them with a command (such as spotlight for mac or searching by name in windows). Always having their own icon in the task bar. Even missing all the chrome around the app window is nice since it reduces clutter and eliminates parts you may accidentally click on.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    When COVID forced us to work from home, I initially resisted installing Slack on my computer. I don't like Electron, and I'd set up my machine such that installing Electron apps was technically difficult anyway. IMO, the UX was horrible. I tried to keep Slack as a pinned Firefox tab, but it was far too easy to accidentally move over to a different website, at which point I stopped getting notifications. I also felt like I had to constantly keep my web browser open—I can't say why that's substantially different than having to keep a Slack application open, but for some reason, the separate dock icon helps me to mentally compartmentalize. When I finally switched to a standalone Slack app, it felt much nicer.
    - samb1729 6y ago
      If you would like to try an alternative Slack client which doesn't require Electron, give Ripcord[0] a try. I'm not affiliated in any way, just a happy user. If you really wanted, it's so lightweight that you could use it just to consistently receive notifications that prompt you to check your pinned tab. [0]: https://cancel.fm/ripcord/ https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
      - O1111OOO 6y ago
        From the website: "Shareware is coming back, baby." I've been on Linux for a while now and have not come across the word shareware in a long time. Odd the it makes me feel nostalgic and (oddly) hopeful (that is: a business model that doesn't rely on tracking, ads or some nebulous behind the scenes actions to monetize you). Nice, straightforward, simple business transaction. Software sales (especially shareware) is really tough. Wish the author some success for his efforts.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  > It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. Especially considering that old versions of Chromium are likely to have more security vulnerabilities. On the iOS platform, Apple essentially forbids the use of any browser engine other than the WebKit/Nitro engine provided by the OS itself. From the user's point of view this has the advantage of guaranteeing the absence of old and vulnerable browser engines on their system (provided they're up to date with iOS updates, and of course provided Apple hold up their end and maintain their software well). As AnIdiotOnTheNet points out, this requires app vendors to stay on top of testing their app as the iOS browser engine is updated by Apple.
- O1111OOO 6y ago
  > It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. It's why I liked Microsoft's HTA (HTML Application) approach: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536496(v=vs.85) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536496(... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536495(v=vs.85) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536495(... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_Application https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_Application It had lots of potential but never really took off. Looking at Sciter[0] as a lightweight Electron alternative (and a modern HTA replacement). [0] https://sciter.com/ https://sciter.com/
input_sh 6y ago
I'd prefer one Firefox tab in a standalone window (for example: Slack) instead of booting an instance of a different browser. Granted, I could always have that tab in a separate window, but that groups it with other Firefox windows, making it harder to navigate to when compared to PWA.
K0nserv 6y ago
There's another angle to this that was discussed on the Risky Business[0] podcast a while back, namely the security angle. As the recent Microsoft Team's vulnerability[1] illustrated, with many Electron apps any XSS vulnerability turns into RCE. Personally I am moving away from Slack, Discord, and other electron apps like them. The browser sandbox ensures that XSS is "only" XSS and doesn't turn into RCE as well. 0: https://www.risky.biz/ https://www.risky.biz/ 1: https://github.com/oskarsve/ms-teams-rce https://github.com/oskarsve/ms-teams-rce
tziki 6y ago
Electron has a number of problems. First, as already mentioned, any XSS turns into much more serious RCE bug. Second, the bloat. Third, on platforms like MacOS you're encouraged (soon required) to obtain a code signing certificate, which costs money and time and is often unfeasible for someone developing a simple app, compared to web. Finally, another security issue is/was that Electron releases lag behind the official Chrome releases (although nowadays this is much better).
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
> Do people not just use Electron App on Desktop? This is precisely why Firefox should support adding websites as desktop apps. Electron is Chromium. Anyone who installs Slack as a desktop app is using Chromium. The more people who use Chromium, the less incentive Slack has to make their website compatible with anything which isn't than Chromium, which is presumably why you can't, for instance, make Slack calls in a browser other than Chrome or Edge. If the purpose of Firefox is to give Mozilla a say in the direction of the web, they should be supporting and encouraging users to install websites as "apps" through Firefox.

seba_dos1 6y ago

Desktop Firefox is also a mobile Firefox on GNU/Linux mobile platforms though.

VoxPelli 6y ago
Well, those mobile platforms are yet to mature. So the “mobile Firefox” there isn’t really a mobile Firefox just the desktop browser used in a mobile context? Or does Mozilla support such platforms in any official way? Even the Android Firefox app just got fairly recently rebuilt, mobile isn’t really Mozilla’s strong game after they shut down Firefox OS (which though strangely lives on as KaiOS) Also: Both Android and Jolla are also Linux based
- fsflover 6y ago
  > Both Android and Jolla are also Linux based AFAIK the kernel plays practically no role in how a browser works.
  - VoxPelli 6y ago
    Yeah, was a pointless nitpick from me, had a smilie in there but Hacker News apparently removes those. On your comment though: I think maybe MacOS Big Sur disagrees with you: https://twitter.com/voxpelli/status/1343323353294262272?s=21 https://twitter.com/voxpelli/status/1343323353294262272?s=21 Not sure if kernel level or other level, but it sure has made eg VS Code pretty slow for some people ;)

freebuju 6y ago

Who is to say PWA on mobile isn't next?

coffeefirst 6y ago

Right. This is hardly the death of PWAs. It just means the PWA experience will just be a shortcut to a regular browser tab. Which is fine. The Single-Site Browser experience, putting an icon on the desktop that opens a browser with no url bar, extensions, back button, or any of the other features of the browser, isn't actually good. There's a better way to approach web apps with notifications and offline support.

BadInformatics 6y ago

From the issue thread: > If there is some hard data somewhere we've missed that shows we would gain more market share by implementing [SSB] than other projects then that would sure be useful though! This is a rare opportunity for everyone on HN disappointed about this removal (myself included) to put together a convincing argument with data about how important PWA desktop integration could be. The pessimist in me thinks there's just going to be more derision and complaints without action though. Hoping to be proven wrong.

thayne 6y ago

According to MDN (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web_apps https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web...) a PWAs are "are web apps that use emerging web browser APIs and features along with traditional progressive enhancement strategy to bring a native app-like user experience to cross-platform web applications." I would consider being able to install the app to the homescreen part of having a "native app-like user experience". And installing to homescreen is listed as part of PWA on that MDN page.

VoxPelli 6y ago
It’s a “progressive” web app though, so such a one is never all or nothing. Pretty much: Have a Service Worker and/or a Web Manifest and you are well on your way to claim to have a PWA
e12e 6y ago
> I would consider being able to install the app to the homescreen part of having a "native app-like user experience There's some more relevant discussion on this bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1407202 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1407202 For now you can supply --ssb on the command line - but I suppose that will go away, if the feature discussed in op is axed (it's not entirely clear to me if axing the pefrence/feature flag includes axing the command line flag - but it seems so). At any rate - most desktop os' should allow shortcuts to urls - so should support "installing" apps.
- thayne 6y ago
  > At any rate - most desktop os' should allow shortcuts to urls - so should support "installing" apps. That's just part of it though. What about hiding browser chrome, or making sure it opens as a new window instead of a new tab, or having seperate window preferences (such as size and location) for it? And I believe one goal of PWA is that "installed" apps have additional permissions, such as being able to use keyboard shortcuts that are normally reserved.