6 ms·

You can’t sue Pfizer or Moderna if you have severe Covid vaccine side effects

18 points by jameslk 6y ago

greenminimalist 6y ago
This problem has existed since 1986. The US government is responsible for this hideous law. I'm not anti-vax by any stretch, but there have been many, many cases of the current vaccine and millions of other vaccine issues besides and there is nothing the average person can do. The US government indemnified the pharm companies. I'm so sick of the little man taking the crappy end of the stick. It would be great to see someone like AOC take on big pharma. If anyone can it, she can. She seems like the type who would relish this task. Hopefully the incoming POTUS will offer her a position where she can take some of these evils to task. I'm not getting my hopes up.
Bellamy 6y ago
"The quickest vaccine ever developed was for mumps. It took four years and was licensed in 1967. Covid-19 vaccine was develop in eight months." I'm not against vaccines, but I'm not taking it. I take rather the virus, please.
- antiterra 6y ago
  Perhaps this doesn’t exactly apply to you, but it’s always curious to me how the “I don’t live in fear” crowd is focused entirely on self-risk. The more difficult part of the equation is that you could be a carrier of the virus to someone the vaccine did not protect.
  - m463 6y ago
    There's another part of the equation where parents withhold vaccinations for kids.
- URfejk 6y ago
  > I'm not against vaccines, but I'm not taking it. I take rather the virus, please. Good for you. It took only two days for Moderna to design the vaccine: https://www.businessinsider.com/moderna-designed-coronavirus-vaccine-in-2-days-2020-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/moderna-designed-coronavirus... ... even less for Pfizer ...: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-co-founder-of-biontech-designed-the-coronavirus-vaccine-it-made-with-pfizer-in-just-a-few-hours-over-a-single-day/ar-BB1bS2XB https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-co-founder-of-b... ... and the vaccinated people are paying the price for it: https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/80-of-people-taking-maderna-vaccine-had-significant-side-effects/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/diseas...
  - treesprite82 6y ago
    > It took only two days for Moderna to design the vaccine: https://www.businessinsider.com/moderna-designed-coronavirus-vaccine-in-2-days-2020-11?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/moderna-designed-coronavirus... Which, as your linked article explains, is because they have better technology - not because they're skipping important steps. The virus had already been fully sequenced, and they don't need to cultivate it. > ... and the vaccinated people are paying the price for it: https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/80-of-people-taking-maderna-vaccine-had-significant-side-effects/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/diseas... This is just a blog post by a climate change denier. But to address the specific claims in it: > This is a RNA vaccine never before used mRNA vaccines have been trialled on humans for rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika, and as early as 2011. A roll out of this scale is new, but "never before used" is too strong of a claim. > at best vaccines are only 60% effective according to the CDC, which Bill Gates also controls This seems to be quoting seasonal flu statistics. Seasonal flu is challenging for multiple reasons (including some reasons that wouldn't be a problem for mRNA vaccines, like mutations while the virus is grown in eggs). This figure shouldn't be used as an upper bound for all vaccines - the Pfizer vaccine is believed to be 95% effective after both doses. > 80% of People Taking Maderna Vaccine Had Significant Side-Effects They've snuck the word "significant" in here which isn't in the video they're quoting. Most commonly it's just pain/swelling/redness at the injection site.
  - Bellamy 6y ago
    Armstrong article is so full of shit, I mean mistakes. It's not about how long it takes to make something, but to test it.
hn_asker 6y ago
People will try anyway. All that responsibility and yet no accountability. The fact that the pandemic is a rare event is not an excuse in my opinion. If anything, it's a reason to hold them accountable.
- timbo1642 6y ago
  Then you don't understand how things work. No company would be willing to fast track a vaccine and rush it out the door if they are going to be held liable. Normally vaccines are tested more, this isn't the case with the covid vaccine and that's why its not a good idea to rush out and get it unless you are high risk and are old or have other health conditions like diabetes. The exception would be medical professionals that are high risk and not always old
- pokerhobo 6y ago
  Normally, a vaccine takes 10 to 15 years to develop and tested. That’s the tradeoff. Source: https://www.reference.com/science/how-long-to-develop-vaccine https://www.reference.com/science/how-long-to-develop-vaccin...
DanBC 6y ago
We want people to get vaccinated. We know people may be harmed. We created funds to pay those people so they don't need to sue a multi-billion dollar multinational company to get compensation. The article alleges that people don't get paid by these programmes, but fails to account for cases that are settled before they get to adjudication. I'm struggling to understand the article's figures, especially compared to these: https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html > According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2018 over 3.7 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 7,565 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 5,297 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed,approximately 1 individual was compensated. See also the UK scheme: https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment

18 points by jameslk 6y ago

This problem has existed since 1986. The US government is responsible for this hideous law. I'm not anti-vax by any stretch, but there have been many, many cases of the current vaccine and millions of other vaccine issues besides and there is nothing the average person can do. The US government indemnified the pharm companies. I'm so sick of the little man taking the crappy end of the stick. It would be great to see someone like AOC take on big pharma. If anyone can it, she can. She seems like the type who would relish this task. Hopefully the incoming POTUS will offer her a position where she can take some of these evils to task. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Bellamy 6y ago

"The quickest vaccine ever developed was for mumps. It took four years and was licensed in 1967. Covid-19 vaccine was develop in eight months." I'm not against vaccines, but I'm not taking it. I take rather the virus, please.

antiterra 6y ago
Perhaps this doesn’t exactly apply to you, but it’s always curious to me how the “I don’t live in fear” crowd is focused entirely on self-risk. The more difficult part of the equation is that you could be a carrier of the virus to someone the vaccine did not protect.
- m463 6y ago
  There's another part of the equation where parents withhold vaccinations for kids.
URfejk 6y ago
> I'm not against vaccines, but I'm not taking it. I take rather the virus, please. Good for you. It took only two days for Moderna to design the vaccine: https://www.businessinsider.com/moderna-designed-coronavirus-vaccine-in-2-days-2020-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/moderna-designed-coronavirus... ... even less for Pfizer ...: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-co-founder-of-biontech-designed-the-coronavirus-vaccine-it-made-with-pfizer-in-just-a-few-hours-over-a-single-day/ar-BB1bS2XB https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-co-founder-of-b... ... and the vaccinated people are paying the price for it: https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/80-of-people-taking-maderna-vaccine-had-significant-side-effects/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/diseas...
- treesprite82 6y ago
  > It took only two days for Moderna to design the vaccine: https://www.businessinsider.com/moderna-designed-coronavirus-vaccine-in-2-days-2020-11?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/moderna-designed-coronavirus... Which, as your linked article explains, is because they have better technology - not because they're skipping important steps. The virus had already been fully sequenced, and they don't need to cultivate it. > ... and the vaccinated people are paying the price for it: https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/80-of-people-taking-maderna-vaccine-had-significant-side-effects/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/diseas... This is just a blog post by a climate change denier. But to address the specific claims in it: > This is a RNA vaccine never before used mRNA vaccines have been trialled on humans for rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika, and as early as 2011. A roll out of this scale is new, but "never before used" is too strong of a claim. > at best vaccines are only 60% effective according to the CDC, which Bill Gates also controls This seems to be quoting seasonal flu statistics. Seasonal flu is challenging for multiple reasons (including some reasons that wouldn't be a problem for mRNA vaccines, like mutations while the virus is grown in eggs). This figure shouldn't be used as an upper bound for all vaccines - the Pfizer vaccine is believed to be 95% effective after both doses. > 80% of People Taking Maderna Vaccine Had Significant Side-Effects They've snuck the word "significant" in here which isn't in the video they're quoting. Most commonly it's just pain/swelling/redness at the injection site.
- Bellamy 6y ago
  Armstrong article is so full of shit, I mean mistakes. It's not about how long it takes to make something, but to test it.

hn_asker 6y ago

People will try anyway. All that responsibility and yet no accountability. The fact that the pandemic is a rare event is not an excuse in my opinion. If anything, it's a reason to hold them accountable.

timbo1642 6y ago
Then you don't understand how things work. No company would be willing to fast track a vaccine and rush it out the door if they are going to be held liable. Normally vaccines are tested more, this isn't the case with the covid vaccine and that's why its not a good idea to rush out and get it unless you are high risk and are old or have other health conditions like diabetes. The exception would be medical professionals that are high risk and not always old
pokerhobo 6y ago
Normally, a vaccine takes 10 to 15 years to develop and tested. That’s the tradeoff. Source: https://www.reference.com/science/how-long-to-develop-vaccine https://www.reference.com/science/how-long-to-develop-vaccin...

DanBC 6y ago

We want people to get vaccinated. We know people may be harmed. We created funds to pay those people so they don't need to sue a multi-billion dollar multinational company to get compensation. The article alleges that people don't get paid by these programmes, but fails to account for cases that are settled before they get to adjudication. I'm struggling to understand the article's figures, especially compared to these: https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html > According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2018 over 3.7 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 7,565 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 5,297 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed,approximately 1 individual was compensated. See also the UK scheme: https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment