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> In the end the dead bodies count and it doesn't matter whether a cautious or inexperienced driver killed them It matters to the safe drivers. Bad drivers are

> In the end the dead bodies count and it doesn't matter whether a cautious or inexperienced driver killed them It matters to the safe drivers. Bad drivers are mostly a danger to themselves. At only "1.5x as safe as average", it's a good deal for the bad drivers, but there are probably a lot of "2x as safe as average" drivers that are getting a bad deal. They are in more danger than before. Edited for clarity.

dunefox 6y ago
> Bad drivers are mostly a danger to themselves. Source? It seems only logical that the number of accidental deaths goes up with the number of bad drivers on the road - not just because they kill themselves.
- degrews 6y ago
  I just mean that a disproportionate amount of the danger created by bad drivers is to themselves. I don't have a source, but I think this is obvious. My point is that, even if we lower the total death count, the safest drivers could still end up at greater risk, because a disproportionate amount of the reduction in deaths will go to bad drivers.
- sliken 6y ago
  The most common accidents are a car hitting a non-car.
  - dunefox 6y ago
    Source?
    - sliken 6y ago
      IIHS says "Nationwide, 53 percent of motor vehicle crash deaths in 2018 occurred in single-vehicle crashes." The other categories being multi-vehicle and property only.
      - the8472 6y ago
        How does that factor in pedestrians? Do they count as deaths in signle-vehicle deaths?
beat 6y ago
I am a safe driver. (My measure: two moving violations in nearly 40 years of driving, the last one 16 years ago. No accidents in 19 years, no injury accidents ever. And I've driven daily for the whole time.) In the past couple of weeks, I've narrowly avoided hitting pedestrians three different times. Each time, the pedestrian was somewhere other than a valid crosswalk (once was on a highway exit). In each case, I think an autonomous vehicle could have handled it better than me.
- bradlys 6y ago
  Maybe a "perfect" autonomous vehicle would've reacted better... But, I'm pretty sure that lady with her bicycle walking across the street in Arizona would say differently in regards to Uber's program. I mean, it was a perfect test case for such a system. The guy whose Tesla drove into the side of a semi-truck might feel differently too. Oh and the one in a Tesla who was driven into a barrier in Mountain View and the car caught fire... He died too. A perfect autonomous car sure sounds nice - but will it ever arrive? Would it have just hit 1 of those pedestrians instead? Would it just go, ding, and suddenly you're in control? Would it kill 1 and then the company would have the data to know to not kill pedestrians in that one specific example? How many people would have to die as test subjects before the system would be better than people? And what if it never got there but you still killed all those folks anyway?
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    The braking system was disabled in the Uber car. That's hardly representative of anything except Uber's carelessness. And tesla's system is unable to see stationary objects. It would never qualify as an autonomous driver. We don't need a perfect system to avoid hitting pedestrians. Current tech can actually do a good job. It just has to be a design goal of the system.

dunefox 6y ago

> Bad drivers are mostly a danger to themselves. Source? It seems only logical that the number of accidental deaths goes up with the number of bad drivers on the road - not just because they kill themselves.

degrews 6y ago
I just mean that a disproportionate amount of the danger created by bad drivers is to themselves. I don't have a source, but I think this is obvious. My point is that, even if we lower the total death count, the safest drivers could still end up at greater risk, because a disproportionate amount of the reduction in deaths will go to bad drivers.
sliken 6y ago
The most common accidents are a car hitting a non-car.
- dunefox 6y ago
  Source?
  - sliken 6y ago
    IIHS says "Nationwide, 53 percent of motor vehicle crash deaths in 2018 occurred in single-vehicle crashes." The other categories being multi-vehicle and property only.
    - the8472 6y ago
      How does that factor in pedestrians? Do they count as deaths in signle-vehicle deaths?

beat 6y ago

I am a safe driver. (My measure: two moving violations in nearly 40 years of driving, the last one 16 years ago. No accidents in 19 years, no injury accidents ever. And I've driven daily for the whole time.) In the past couple of weeks, I've narrowly avoided hitting pedestrians three different times. Each time, the pedestrian was somewhere other than a valid crosswalk (once was on a highway exit). In each case, I think an autonomous vehicle could have handled it better than me.

bradlys 6y ago
Maybe a "perfect" autonomous vehicle would've reacted better... But, I'm pretty sure that lady with her bicycle walking across the street in Arizona would say differently in regards to Uber's program. I mean, it was a perfect test case for such a system. The guy whose Tesla drove into the side of a semi-truck might feel differently too. Oh and the one in a Tesla who was driven into a barrier in Mountain View and the car caught fire... He died too. A perfect autonomous car sure sounds nice - but will it ever arrive? Would it have just hit 1 of those pedestrians instead? Would it just go, ding, and suddenly you're in control? Would it kill 1 and then the company would have the data to know to not kill pedestrians in that one specific example? How many people would have to die as test subjects before the system would be better than people? And what if it never got there but you still killed all those folks anyway?
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  The braking system was disabled in the Uber car. That's hardly representative of anything except Uber's carelessness. And tesla's system is unable to see stationary objects. It would never qualify as an autonomous driver. We don't need a perfect system to avoid hitting pedestrians. Current tech can actually do a good job. It just has to be a design goal of the system.