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So what's the main barrier to using these industrially? Is it reliability? Did this video a zillion takes? Is it manufacturing? Maybe it's hard to scale them

So what's the main barrier to using these industrially? Is it reliability? Did this video a zillion takes? Is it manufacturing? Maybe it's hard to scale them up? Is it battery life? Maybe it can power itself for just a few minutes? Is it object manipulation or sensing/world understanding? Maybe it can't apply the right forces to a soft thing or a flexible thing or know what it can step on vs over or what will move or stay still? Is it just that anything worth automating is worth specializing, and there are better robots for different specific tasks? We've seen industrial robots for a while now, and these more general robots have gotten really good, so where are they?

twelve40 6y ago
as with many things, probably the cost
lucideer 6y ago
Is it cost?
thysultan 6y ago
battery
joe_the_user 6y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by "industrially". In actual factories, which are highly controlled environments, the things called robots are much simpler and more specialized. So you're "Is it just that anything worth automating is worth specializing, and there are better robots for different specific tasks?" point is more or less it. But also consider, while these bipedal, quadrupedal and wheeled robots can do all sorts of these in isolation, their ability to accomplish things autonomously in the chaotic, unstructured world outside the factory is little-to-none, accent on none. The Darpa Robitics challenge was essentially considered a failure, all entrant failed. Most could not do the "walk to a door and open it" challenge. Similarly, Boston Dynamics sells their "big dog" walking robot to the military but it is seldom if ever deployed. It's strong and faster than a horse with basically the use case as a pack horse. But well trained pack horse won't injure if you get in front of it and will walk along with the troops on it's own without a guy with joy stick directing it. And the Big Dog needs constant direction. Basically, robots don't have even the "animal intelligence" needed for real world activity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Robotics_Challenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Robotics_Challenge
- drannex 6y ago
  > And the Big Dog needs constant direction. And the Big Dog requires a lot of technical experts surrounding it at all times, an energy production system, and if it falls over or gets stuck it will be harder for one or two people to get it back to orientation.
- bumby 6y ago
  Have they made a useful quiet version of Big Dog? I know that’s one reason it was initial not very pragmatic for the military
  - qayxc 6y ago
    Big Dog was discontinued in 2015. Until there's light weight batteries or fuel cells available, big, long-endurance robots like Big Dog just aren't practical (especially for military use).
andi999 6y ago
Who needs dancing robots? What I mean this video does not show that useful work has been implemented. Probably flexibility of tasks might be a problem. Or there is no problem and we see rollout in the next few years.
- dbcurtis 6y ago
  It shows that they can fuse IMU and other sensor data and feed it to a trajectory-optimization system and get actuation torques meeting realtime contraints sufficiently quickly to not fall over. Bonus points for smooth motion. Check out MIT’s Underactuated Robotics class taught by Tedrake. Spring 2018 is all on Youtube, I believe. A Raibert Hopper simulation is one of the first homework sets. Post a link to tbe video of your solution.
  - andi999 6y ago
    Yes, this is all well and good, but it is technology driven and not problem driven. If you want to make sales you need to address a need.
thewarrior 6y ago
A human in India or China can be had for a couple of hundred dollars a month. These robots probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy and maintain. And they aren’t as adaptable.
- jtsiskin 6y ago
  $35 a month, according to buzzfeed https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alison_killing/xinjiang-camps-china-factories-forced-labor https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alison_killing/xinjiang...
  - rasz 6y ago
    as low as $6.79 /month according to Wistron and Apple
- rasz 6y ago
  Now teach that human weapon control, tactics, chain of command. Make sure he is healthy, strong and has high endurance. 1-2 years should do it.
- dereg 6y ago
  I don’t think this is it. US farming is vastly more productive than in India or China. It has less to do with the cost of labor but the nature of labor, ie these robots don’t have a niche.
- dash2 6y ago
  But a guy in India can’t deliver your parcel in Santa Cruz.
RivieraKid 6y ago
Repetitive physical tasks can usually be done with existing machinery and industrial robots. To do anything more complex than that, i.e. non-repetitive tasks, even if they could do it physically, they lack the required brain power. They don't follow verbal instructions except very basic ones.
spelunker 6y ago
Isn't the big wheeled robot used in some warehouses today? Maybe I just remember watching another BD marketing video about it...
kordlessagain 6y ago
> So what's the main barrier to using these industrially? Battery technology.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mabbo 6y ago
> So what's the main barrier to using these industrially? In an industrial setting, a purpose-built robot will outdo these robots, or a human, at nearly all tasks. And whatever these things are doing, likely a human can do it better with a little bit of training- that's low capital cost compared to these robots. Carrying things around? Conveyor belts. Picking things up? Robot arms. Going up and down stairs? Elevators and/or conveyor belts. If your aim is to make money, a general purpose robot is rarely the best choice. The only real purpose I can see for these things is being able to travel quickly in rough terrain. Military applications, basically. Just picture a small army of these robots, armed with tasers, chasing you through the woods. While dancing.
- bengale 6y ago
  I can imagine one of these hopping out the back of the self driving Amazon van to drop my parcel off when the price makes sense.
- viraptor 6y ago
  And a new edition of robot wars. We deserve to see the human-like robots doing realistic sword fights.
  - neuromanser 6y ago
    Game of Drones?
- brushfoot 6y ago
  > The only real purpose I can see for these things is being able to travel quickly in rough terrain This reminds me of the (alleged) Tom Watson quote: "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." These robots will be everywhere in twenty years. The cost and the software aren't there yet, but it's only a matter of time. Flexibility and time to market will beat purpose-built robots in many cases once the cost comes down. Many purpose-built factories will disappear. Local, distributed generalist factories will spring up, staffed by robots. Drones and autonomous vehicles will deliver "hand-crafted" products directly to customers. With autonomous vehicles poised to replace the most common job in the majority of U.S. states -- truck driver -- we're on the verge of massive systemic changes. That's at best. At worst, with economic and political tensions already high, we'll get violence and bloodshed on a global scale.
cybertronic 6y ago
Entertainment, sport (remember the robocup?), and police of course
saalweachter 6y ago
> Is it object manipulation or sensing/world understanding? Maybe it can't apply the right forces to a soft thing or a flexible thing or know what it can step on vs over or what will move or stay still? Did you notice the robot's hands? Or, you know, lack thereof? These robots are impressive, amazing and advanced ... but they are demonstrating mobility, not utility. If you want your robot to really replace people, it needs amazing hands. Also amazing visual processing, but there's a lot of work being done there by the autonomous vehicle people, and I'm not sure who is currently leading the pack on hands.
bariswheel 6y ago
Much harder to make the machine that makes the machine. Mass manufacturing these robots is probably unlikely at this time.
Defenestresque 6y ago
Lots of interesting answers to your question, but if I may present another: There is none. These robots are currently in use screening COVID patients, assessing parts of the Chernobyl plant and working in warehouses. Those are just the applications that I know of. I think the "barrier to industrial use" was simply that Boston Dynamics wanted to ensure they had a fairly mature platform before scaling up to significant production.
dan_hawkins 6y ago
> Did this video a zillion takes? Definitely quite a lot - take a look at the floor underneath some of them, shiny patches worn out by constant beatings I guess.
Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
Price. Only the price is the barrier. :) But it is getting better quickly as we speak. Spot is 7000 USD. This is cheap enough to be useful in many situations, but certainly not in your average storage facility.

twelve40 6y ago

as with many things, probably the cost

lucideer 6y ago

Is it cost?

thysultan 6y ago

battery

joe_the_user 6y ago

I'm not sure what you mean by "industrially". In actual factories, which are highly controlled environments, the things called robots are much simpler and more specialized. So you're "Is it just that anything worth automating is worth specializing, and there are better robots for different specific tasks?" point is more or less it. But also consider, while these bipedal, quadrupedal and wheeled robots can do all sorts of these in isolation, their ability to accomplish things autonomously in the chaotic, unstructured world outside the factory is little-to-none, accent on none. The Darpa Robitics challenge was essentially considered a failure, all entrant failed. Most could not do the "walk to a door and open it" challenge. Similarly, Boston Dynamics sells their "big dog" walking robot to the military but it is seldom if ever deployed. It's strong and faster than a horse with basically the use case as a pack horse. But well trained pack horse won't injure if you get in front of it and will walk along with the troops on it's own without a guy with joy stick directing it. And the Big Dog needs constant direction. Basically, robots don't have even the "animal intelligence" needed for real world activity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Robotics_Challenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Robotics_Challenge

drannex 6y ago
> And the Big Dog needs constant direction. And the Big Dog requires a lot of technical experts surrounding it at all times, an energy production system, and if it falls over or gets stuck it will be harder for one or two people to get it back to orientation.
bumby 6y ago
Have they made a useful quiet version of Big Dog? I know that’s one reason it was initial not very pragmatic for the military
- qayxc 6y ago
  Big Dog was discontinued in 2015. Until there's light weight batteries or fuel cells available, big, long-endurance robots like Big Dog just aren't practical (especially for military use).

andi999 6y ago

Who needs dancing robots? What I mean this video does not show that useful work has been implemented. Probably flexibility of tasks might be a problem. Or there is no problem and we see rollout in the next few years.

dbcurtis 6y ago
It shows that they can fuse IMU and other sensor data and feed it to a trajectory-optimization system and get actuation torques meeting realtime contraints sufficiently quickly to not fall over. Bonus points for smooth motion. Check out MIT’s Underactuated Robotics class taught by Tedrake. Spring 2018 is all on Youtube, I believe. A Raibert Hopper simulation is one of the first homework sets. Post a link to tbe video of your solution.
- andi999 6y ago
  Yes, this is all well and good, but it is technology driven and not problem driven. If you want to make sales you need to address a need.

thewarrior 6y ago

A human in India or China can be had for a couple of hundred dollars a month. These robots probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy and maintain. And they aren’t as adaptable.

jtsiskin 6y ago
$35 a month, according to buzzfeed https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alison_killing/xinjiang-camps-china-factories-forced-labor https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alison_killing/xinjiang...
- rasz 6y ago
  as low as $6.79 /month according to Wistron and Apple
rasz 6y ago
Now teach that human weapon control, tactics, chain of command. Make sure he is healthy, strong and has high endurance. 1-2 years should do it.
dereg 6y ago
I don’t think this is it. US farming is vastly more productive than in India or China. It has less to do with the cost of labor but the nature of labor, ie these robots don’t have a niche.
dash2 6y ago
But a guy in India can’t deliver your parcel in Santa Cruz.

RivieraKid 6y ago

Repetitive physical tasks can usually be done with existing machinery and industrial robots. To do anything more complex than that, i.e. non-repetitive tasks, even if they could do it physically, they lack the required brain power. They don't follow verbal instructions except very basic ones.

spelunker 6y ago

Isn't the big wheeled robot used in some warehouses today? Maybe I just remember watching another BD marketing video about it...

kordlessagain 6y ago

> So what's the main barrier to using these industrially? Battery technology.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mabbo 6y ago

> So what's the main barrier to using these industrially? In an industrial setting, a purpose-built robot will outdo these robots, or a human, at nearly all tasks. And whatever these things are doing, likely a human can do it better with a little bit of training- that's low capital cost compared to these robots. Carrying things around? Conveyor belts. Picking things up? Robot arms. Going up and down stairs? Elevators and/or conveyor belts. If your aim is to make money, a general purpose robot is rarely the best choice. The only real purpose I can see for these things is being able to travel quickly in rough terrain. Military applications, basically. Just picture a small army of these robots, armed with tasers, chasing you through the woods. While dancing.

bengale 6y ago
I can imagine one of these hopping out the back of the self driving Amazon van to drop my parcel off when the price makes sense.
viraptor 6y ago
And a new edition of robot wars. We deserve to see the human-like robots doing realistic sword fights.
- neuromanser 6y ago
  Game of Drones?
brushfoot 6y ago
> The only real purpose I can see for these things is being able to travel quickly in rough terrain This reminds me of the (alleged) Tom Watson quote: "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." These robots will be everywhere in twenty years. The cost and the software aren't there yet, but it's only a matter of time. Flexibility and time to market will beat purpose-built robots in many cases once the cost comes down. Many purpose-built factories will disappear. Local, distributed generalist factories will spring up, staffed by robots. Drones and autonomous vehicles will deliver "hand-crafted" products directly to customers. With autonomous vehicles poised to replace the most common job in the majority of U.S. states -- truck driver -- we're on the verge of massive systemic changes. That's at best. At worst, with economic and political tensions already high, we'll get violence and bloodshed on a global scale.

cybertronic 6y ago

Entertainment, sport (remember the robocup?), and police of course

saalweachter 6y ago

> Is it object manipulation or sensing/world understanding? Maybe it can't apply the right forces to a soft thing or a flexible thing or know what it can step on vs over or what will move or stay still? Did you notice the robot's hands? Or, you know, lack thereof? These robots are impressive, amazing and advanced ... but they are demonstrating mobility, not utility. If you want your robot to really replace people, it needs amazing hands. Also amazing visual processing, but there's a lot of work being done there by the autonomous vehicle people, and I'm not sure who is currently leading the pack on hands.

bariswheel 6y ago

Much harder to make the machine that makes the machine. Mass manufacturing these robots is probably unlikely at this time.

Defenestresque 6y ago

Lots of interesting answers to your question, but if I may present another: There is none. These robots are currently in use screening COVID patients, assessing parts of the Chernobyl plant and working in warehouses. Those are just the applications that I know of. I think the "barrier to industrial use" was simply that Boston Dynamics wanted to ensure they had a fairly mature platform before scaling up to significant production.

dan_hawkins 6y ago

> Did this video a zillion takes? Definitely quite a lot - take a look at the floor underneath some of them, shiny patches worn out by constant beatings I guess.

Erlich_Bachman 6y ago

Price. Only the price is the barrier. :) But it is getting better quickly as we speak. Spot is 7000 USD. This is cheap enough to be useful in many situations, but certainly not in your average storage facility.