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Too profitable, obviously. We can argue about carbohydrates endlessly, and I have to no avail in the past, but there is no dietary need for sugar at all. We tol

Too profitable, obviously. We can argue about carbohydrates endlessly, and I have to no avail in the past, but there is no dietary need for sugar at all. We tolerate some of it, but the less of it you eat the better off your body will be. On a related note, the alcohol industry is actually really shady. They like to put on a clean image of providing responsible adults entertainment, but in reality the industry is deeply dependent on alcoholics. It’s estimated (2007 numbers) that just over 10% of alcohol drinkers consume half of the alcohol in the United States. Without that small cohort of alcoholics, a large percentage of the industry would go broke. Ever since learning this fact, I’ve taken an extra skeptical eye towards anything that even vaguely looks like alcohol industry influence.

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
Lots of industries like that. Look up gun ownership numbers. Another strange food is dairy. In fact, I think that most Europeans were lactose-intolerant, until they started getting people from Asia mixing in genes. There was a study, to that effect, recently; where they looked at old DNA samples. I remember the Masai tribe, in Africa. These are some of the most robust, healthy people you have ever seen, and their traditional food is cow's milk, mixed with cow's blood. YUM. But I loves my sugar and milk in my tea (don't drink booze, though).
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  The difference is between companies depending on collectors or aficionados, and companies depending on addicts. Assuming that one doesn’t have issues with firearm ownership in general, then there doesn’t seem to be anything fundamentally wrong with someone collecting a large number of firearms. You might find it odd, but there doesn’t seem to be a social level difference between someone owning a handgun and someone collecting them. (Correct me if someone can show a link between number of guns owned and violence). There is a major difference between someone averaging a drink every other day or so, and someone having 10 drinks a day. The latter group is unquestionably addicted, with extremely negative personal and social consequences for that addiction.
- slowhand09 6y ago
  Re the gun ownership issue, roughly 40% of US households ADMIT to having guns. There is a significant amount that will NEVER answer that question on any survey. Much like those that admit to owning them will rarely tell you specifics like how many they have.
  - User23 6y ago
    The smart ones actually lie and say no they don't have guns. Refusing to answer will get you binned as a gun owner just like refusing to disclose race on a work or college application will get you binned as White. And in both cases those answers will likely get flagged as uncooperative too.
- kome 6y ago
  > Another strange food is dairy. In fact, I think that most Europeans were lactose-intolerant, until they started getting people from Asia mixing in genes. I think it's the other way around, but i claim no expertise.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
    You may be right: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200903114212.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200903114212.h...
  - User23 6y ago
    Modern Europeans are people from Asia, they only migrated a handful of millennia ago.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    Central Asians, not East Asians.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Evidence suggests independent emergence in north-central Europe (present-day Germany), central Asia (Kazakhs), and multiple regions in Africa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence
hirundo 6y ago
> in reality the industry is deeply dependent on alcoholics. What business wouldn't adapt to the fact that their customers' purchases follow a Pareto distribution? Many (most?) do. I'm not saying that they're not shady, but this isn't evidence of that.
- cultus 6y ago
  Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but there's plenty of evidence that they depend on these consumers, and they are certainly aware of them because alcohol companies have been known to engage in marketing activities. This is a broad overview: https://www.recoveryanswers.org/research-post/alcohol-sales-excessive-drinking/ https://www.recoveryanswers.org/research-post/alcohol-sales-... As you say, it is completely predictable that beverage companies would adapt to a Pareto-like distribution of consumption. However, unlike for things like books or outdoor equipment, adapting to a Pareto distribution here means that a company is intentionally profiting from addiction. This is an absolutely huge negative externality in terms of the social , health, and economic harm that alcohol addiction causes.
- frenchy 6y ago
  I'm sure they would, but a business is not going to willing shrink its market unless is forced to. Trying to maintain your market, while giving all sorts of people liver cancer, cirrhosis, fetal alcohol syndrom, et al, is probably considered shady by most people.
- Nbox9 6y ago
  It’s not shady that an industry is doing the best thing for their own interest. It’s shady that the alcohol industry’s best interest is against many strong public health concerns.
gfxgirl 6y ago
I'm curious if that's true in all countries. UK with its pub culture. Japan with its izakaya culture. Muslim countries where drinking is forbidden
- mhh__ 6y ago
  UK is increasingly drinking cheap stuff at home. Even as teenagers we drink a pretty large amount before actually going out and really getting going.
  - Mauricebranagh 6y ago
    That is because the off trade Corner shops, Bodegas Supermarkets are not taxed the same as the on trade (Pubs / Clubs) Just base the cost of a off licence on square footage.
iguy 6y ago
If alcoholics drink half the alcohol, by volume, it may still be a lot less than half the revenue, let alone half the profit. But hard to guess... I wonder what proportion of alcohol sold is (say) more than twice the price of the cheapest stuff (of the same broad category)?
- Nbox9 6y ago
  I don’t know where the revenue is, but it’s worth noting a significant amount of alcohol advertising is spent on cheap beer.
- fedreserved 6y ago
  Ancedotal experience the 2 alcoholics I know and have hung out with in the under 35 age group drank the cheapest of the cheap. 1 a 30 pack of natty light a day, the other a bottle of drive thru tequila 20% abv a night. The tequila drinker was clearing 70k a year as a nurse living at his mom's in small town midwest so he could have afforded finer spirits
rpedela 6y ago
> no dietary need for sugar Can I assume you mean simple sugars that are added for taste? If you literally meant what you said, well you will die without carbohydrates (sugar).
- nradov 6y ago
  Humans can survive just fine with zero dietary carbohydrate intake, as long as they get sufficient calories and micronutrients.
  - rpedela 6y ago
    Where do you think those calories come from?
    - nxc18 6y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_macronutrients https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_macronutrients The ‘everything is sugar’ meme really frustrates the conversation about nutrition and does lead to people making bad nutrition choices, as I’ve personally observed IRL.
    - JackMorgan 6y ago
      The liver will start to adapt by performing gluconeogenesis from fat, which has plenty of calories (almost 2x as much per gram as carbohydrates). A human can easily thrive on just fats and protein. See Inuit people who have lived on mostly blubber and meat for centuries.
    - sergiosgc 6y ago
      Your body can get energy/calories from carbohydrates, fat or protein. Whatever is available. You absolutely need proteins. Between fat and carbohydrates, the body can compensate. There is a clear limit on the ability to process carbohydrates.
      - dredmorbius 6y ago
bluedino 6y ago
I might eat a couple Starbursts a month, but I have a co-worker who eats an entire $5 bag of them, twice a week.
waihtis 6y ago
Not only alcohol but also gambling, mobile gaming (with micropayments), and many other ”fun” pastimes with addictive qualities have the exact same distribution.
tasty_freeze 6y ago
Your numbers are off: the top decile accounts for about 75% of all alcohol consumed (US, 2014) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...
- throw_away 6y ago
  I think you may have read that chart wrong. ~75 is the # of drinks/week of the top decile (!!). Your linked article says: > As Cook notes in his book, the top 10 percent of drinkers account for well over half of the alcohol consumed in any given year. Also notable from this article: > "If the top decile somehow could be induced to curb their consumption level to that of the next lower group (the ninth decile), then total ethanol sales would fall by 60 percent."
  - tasty_freeze 6y ago
    No, I didn't misread the chart. I added up the total number of drinks across all categories and did the division. It just so happened that the total number of drinks is close to 100. > The top 10 percent of drinkers account for well over half of the alcohol consumed in any given year. Yes, 75% is well over half.

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

Lots of industries like that. Look up gun ownership numbers. Another strange food is dairy. In fact, I think that most Europeans were lactose-intolerant, until they started getting people from Asia mixing in genes. There was a study, to that effect, recently; where they looked at old DNA samples. I remember the Masai tribe, in Africa. These are some of the most robust, healthy people you have ever seen, and their traditional food is cow's milk, mixed with cow's blood. YUM. But I loves my sugar and milk in my tea (don't drink booze, though).

ashtonkem 6y ago
The difference is between companies depending on collectors or aficionados, and companies depending on addicts. Assuming that one doesn’t have issues with firearm ownership in general, then there doesn’t seem to be anything fundamentally wrong with someone collecting a large number of firearms. You might find it odd, but there doesn’t seem to be a social level difference between someone owning a handgun and someone collecting them. (Correct me if someone can show a link between number of guns owned and violence). There is a major difference between someone averaging a drink every other day or so, and someone having 10 drinks a day. The latter group is unquestionably addicted, with extremely negative personal and social consequences for that addiction.
slowhand09 6y ago
Re the gun ownership issue, roughly 40% of US households ADMIT to having guns. There is a significant amount that will NEVER answer that question on any survey. Much like those that admit to owning them will rarely tell you specifics like how many they have.
- User23 6y ago
  The smart ones actually lie and say no they don't have guns. Refusing to answer will get you binned as a gun owner just like refusing to disclose race on a work or college application will get you binned as White. And in both cases those answers will likely get flagged as uncooperative too.
kome 6y ago
> Another strange food is dairy. In fact, I think that most Europeans were lactose-intolerant, until they started getting people from Asia mixing in genes. I think it's the other way around, but i claim no expertise.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  You may be right: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200903114212.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200903114212.h...
- User23 6y ago
  Modern Europeans are people from Asia, they only migrated a handful of millennia ago.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Central Asians, not East Asians.
dredmorbius 6y ago
Evidence suggests independent emergence in north-central Europe (present-day Germany), central Asia (Kazakhs), and multiple regions in Africa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence

hirundo 6y ago

> in reality the industry is deeply dependent on alcoholics. What business wouldn't adapt to the fact that their customers' purchases follow a Pareto distribution? Many (most?) do. I'm not saying that they're not shady, but this isn't evidence of that.

cultus 6y ago
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but there's plenty of evidence that they depend on these consumers, and they are certainly aware of them because alcohol companies have been known to engage in marketing activities. This is a broad overview: https://www.recoveryanswers.org/research-post/alcohol-sales-excessive-drinking/ https://www.recoveryanswers.org/research-post/alcohol-sales-... As you say, it is completely predictable that beverage companies would adapt to a Pareto-like distribution of consumption. However, unlike for things like books or outdoor equipment, adapting to a Pareto distribution here means that a company is intentionally profiting from addiction. This is an absolutely huge negative externality in terms of the social , health, and economic harm that alcohol addiction causes.
frenchy 6y ago
I'm sure they would, but a business is not going to willing shrink its market unless is forced to. Trying to maintain your market, while giving all sorts of people liver cancer, cirrhosis, fetal alcohol syndrom, et al, is probably considered shady by most people.
Nbox9 6y ago
It’s not shady that an industry is doing the best thing for their own interest. It’s shady that the alcohol industry’s best interest is against many strong public health concerns.

gfxgirl 6y ago

I'm curious if that's true in all countries. UK with its pub culture. Japan with its izakaya culture. Muslim countries where drinking is forbidden

mhh__ 6y ago
UK is increasingly drinking cheap stuff at home. Even as teenagers we drink a pretty large amount before actually going out and really getting going.
- Mauricebranagh 6y ago
  That is because the off trade Corner shops, Bodegas Supermarkets are not taxed the same as the on trade (Pubs / Clubs) Just base the cost of a off licence on square footage.

iguy 6y ago

If alcoholics drink half the alcohol, by volume, it may still be a lot less than half the revenue, let alone half the profit. But hard to guess... I wonder what proportion of alcohol sold is (say) more than twice the price of the cheapest stuff (of the same broad category)?

Nbox9 6y ago
I don’t know where the revenue is, but it’s worth noting a significant amount of alcohol advertising is spent on cheap beer.
fedreserved 6y ago
Ancedotal experience the 2 alcoholics I know and have hung out with in the under 35 age group drank the cheapest of the cheap. 1 a 30 pack of natty light a day, the other a bottle of drive thru tequila 20% abv a night. The tequila drinker was clearing 70k a year as a nurse living at his mom's in small town midwest so he could have afforded finer spirits

rpedela 6y ago

> no dietary need for sugar Can I assume you mean simple sugars that are added for taste? If you literally meant what you said, well you will die without carbohydrates (sugar).

nradov 6y ago
Humans can survive just fine with zero dietary carbohydrate intake, as long as they get sufficient calories and micronutrients.
- rpedela 6y ago
  Where do you think those calories come from?
  - nxc18 6y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_macronutrients https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_macronutrients The ‘everything is sugar’ meme really frustrates the conversation about nutrition and does lead to people making bad nutrition choices, as I’ve personally observed IRL.
  - JackMorgan 6y ago
    The liver will start to adapt by performing gluconeogenesis from fat, which has plenty of calories (almost 2x as much per gram as carbohydrates). A human can easily thrive on just fats and protein. See Inuit people who have lived on mostly blubber and meat for centuries.
  - sergiosgc 6y ago
    Your body can get energy/calories from carbohydrates, fat or protein. Whatever is available. You absolutely need proteins. Between fat and carbohydrates, the body can compensate. There is a clear limit on the ability to process carbohydrates.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago

bluedino 6y ago

I might eat a couple Starbursts a month, but I have a co-worker who eats an entire $5 bag of them, twice a week.

waihtis 6y ago

Not only alcohol but also gambling, mobile gaming (with micropayments), and many other ”fun” pastimes with addictive qualities have the exact same distribution.

tasty_freeze 6y ago

Your numbers are off: the top decile accounts for about 75% of all alcohol consumed (US, 2014) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

throw_away 6y ago
I think you may have read that chart wrong. ~75 is the # of drinks/week of the top decile (!!). Your linked article says: > As Cook notes in his book, the top 10 percent of drinkers account for well over half of the alcohol consumed in any given year. Also notable from this article: > "If the top decile somehow could be induced to curb their consumption level to that of the next lower group (the ninth decile), then total ethanol sales would fall by 60 percent."
- tasty_freeze 6y ago
  No, I didn't misread the chart. I added up the total number of drinks across all categories and did the division. It just so happened that the total number of drinks is close to 100. > The top 10 percent of drinkers account for well over half of the alcohol consumed in any given year. Yes, 75% is well over half.