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I’ve decided to leave the Apple ecosystem in 2021. But the problem is not isolated to Apple. In fact, I’d be surprised if other, cheaper products aren’t quite a
by christophilus 6y ago
I’ve decided to leave the Apple ecosystem in 2021. But the problem is not isolated to Apple. In fact, I’d be surprised if other, cheaper products aren’t quite a bit worse.
Is there an electronics company that does a better job? (That’s not a rhetorical question.)
- delecti 6y agoFairphone is your best bet with smartphones, but I'm not sure if there's similarly ethically produced hardware of other types.
- simonh 6y agoFairphone have dozens of suppliers in China, some of them indirect, and they say in their own literature they can't directly vouch for every company in their supply chain. They're in exactly the same boat as Apple. IMHO this is about China, not any one company.
- fsflover 6y agoLack of perfection does not mean you should give up everything.
- simonh 6y agoOh absolutely, they work very hard on this and deserver a lot of credit for it, but then so do Apple. They have some of the strictest policies and most thorough inspections in the industry and this still keeps happening to them.
- boudin 6y agoI don't think it's comparable no. The effort put by Fairphone to build an ethical tech company is not comparable with what apple have been doing. There's a lot of information on their website and it's worth to have a look: https://www.fairphone.com/en/impact https://www.fairphone.com/en/impact
- diebeforei485 6y agoI mean, Apple also has a lot of information on their website and it's also worth looking at: https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ They also have annual reports for the past few years just about this.
- simonh 6y agoAnd Apple are also the highest rated tech company by Greenpeace for environmental issues after Fairphone.
- fsflover 6y agoThat's quite strange given what they have been doing with repair: http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-impossible-deemed-future-e-waste-ifixit-2465348 http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-imposs... https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-sues-canadian-recycling-firm-for-reselling-100000-devices-instead-of-destroying-them/ https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-sues-canadian-recyc... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144489
- simonh 6y agoRepair is only a factor because it contributes to device longevity, but iPhones have the longest average device lifetimes in the industry by a long way. In theory they could make it even longer but it's a relatively marginal issue in environmental terms. I agree there are other reasons that make it desirable as well and every little helps, but the fact remains iPhones have industry leading overall environmental impact. “..researchers found that brand, an intangible property, is more important than repairability or memory size in extending the life of a product.”[0] The article found that Apple phones last on average a year longer than Samsung’s. [0]https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016142434.h https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016142434.h... Another estimate puts Apple device lifespans at 4 years 3 months.[1] [1]https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone-ipad-mac-heres-how-long https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone-ipad-mac-heres-how-long... The average for all smartphones is estimated as from 2 to 3 years, but bear in mind that includes many Apple devices, so non Apple devices must average the low end of that.[2] [2]https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/lifespan-smartphone.html https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/lifespan-smartphone.html
- corty 6y agoFairphone is also about being fair to its user, e.g. with available spare parts.
- hertzrat 6y agoHow’s the privacy on a fairphone? The same as regular android?
- alltakendamned 6y agoThere’s the fairphone https://www.fairphone.com/en/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/
- fsflover 6y agoThere is also Librem 5 USA, but it's $2k: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/.
- PurpleFoxy 6y agoIt’s not really made in the US is more that they inspect the parts and clip them together in the US and that costs them $1000 for some reason.
- fsflover 6y agoDid you read the link? It's manufactured in the US. The other version of Librem 5 which is made in China and assembled in US costs $800: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- herbst 6y agoHonestly i never felt the ecosystem to be that great, its just the same shit others are doing in a walled garden way. I am sure you will be fine finding your own stack
- fhrow4484 6y agoEven if a phone is made 100% in US or Europe, the raw materials for it like Cobalt is probably not immune to other types of human rights abuse: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/dec/16/apple-and-google-named-in-us-lawsuit-over-congolese-child-cobalt-mining-deaths https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/dec/16/a... https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/oct/12/phone-misery-children-congo-cobalt-mines-drc https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/oct/12/p...
- christophilus 6y agoSadly true. Years ago, I watched a brutal documentary on a mine where the life expectancy of the workers was insanely short. Their primary industrial clients were electronics manufacturers. I don’t know what I can do, though, as programming is my living. I like the suggestion of always buying used goods. But obviously, a secondary market still encourages the primary market. It’s not a perfect solution.
- jimbob45 6y agoJust take care of what you own and don’t needlessly buy additional electronics.
- natecham 6y agoWould you consider only buying a used/refurbished phone/computer? Obviously it’s not scalable to the masses, but not putting any money in Apple’s pocket directly
- christophilus 6y agoI only buy used phones. But I rarely buy used computers / monitors. Those are my bread and butter, so reliability matters.
- natecham 6y agoYea understandable, I’ve had great experiences with refurbished MacBooks for what it’s worth
- matwood 6y agoApple is one of the better ones in a sea of really bad. It's a low bar and certainly doesn't mean Apple is perfect. There might be some boutique phone makers who claim to be better like Librem or Fairphone, but because they have fewer resources than the big players it's much harder for them to really know. And if you dig into the mining side of the rare earths, worker conditions drop quickly.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ogre_codes 6y agoThis is the big problem. Few of these companies have the resources to verify their supply chain is free of abuse. The smaller companies likely have even less control over their supply chain.
- nomel 6y agoAnd supply chains aren’t necessarily constants. They can flip overnight when some distant vendor lights the contract on fire after the audit is complete by switching to a cheaper source, pocketing the difference. The most newsworthy instances often involve steel and catastrophic failure. People in this comment section saying that Apple executives should be held criminally liable have a very naive understanding of how long the tentacles of the supply chain go for anything made with more than a few raw materials.
- gscott 6y agoI believe, a good guess, this company is forced to take these laborers. The CCP calls the shots and if you own the company you have to go along or become one of the prisoners. The CCP even has the forced laborers in a parade. They have their hands on it from start to finish.
- Siira 6y agoOne way to punish them is to simply buy less. Upgrading electronics is usually superfluous.
- KozmoNau7 6y agoThe least harmful thing you can do is to only buy refurbished devices and to use them for as long as possible before replacing them. You'll have to choose to get off the constant upgrade carousel.