5 ms·

Ask HN: I use a VPN and Google appear to be the only one knowing my location

44 points by Triv888 6y ago

Is it likely to be an IPv6 leak? I setup the VPN server using PiVPN (Wireguard VPN) For example, when I do a Google search, my location is correct at the bottom of the page.

Isthatablackgsd 6y ago
I recommend going to ipleak.net, it a tester for your IP and detecting leaks. It will tell you which source is exposing your information.
- Triv888 6y ago
  This shows the location of the VPN
java-man 6y ago
browser fingerprinting? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Device_fingerprint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Device_fingerprint
- FlyingSnake 6y ago
  To second this: You can test your browser fingerprint here: https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/
  - YuccaGloriosa 6y ago
    ...or try a different freshly installed browser
phillipseamore 6y ago
In private browsing mode?
- aearm 6y ago
  Even in private they google seems to know your location
api 6y ago
Are you logged in with Chrome? Are you running other Google products on your computer or behind the same router (e.g. an Android phone) that are logged in and have you added a payment method in Google with an address anywhere? Got any Google home assistant products around? Otherwise they are probably using browser fingerprinting and cross referencing.
- 2Gkashmiri 6y ago
  has anyone confirmed google does these? i personally haven't used google in years, dont hold a gmail account or use their services other than youtube which i do on a private firefox tab. while i do have a unique browser fingerprint according to https://coveryourtracks.eff.org https://coveryourtracks.eff.org >Your browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 327,358 tested in the past 45 days. should i be concerned? now, if i use this same browser on any vpn, if youtube is doing fingerprinting then i am a unique user anyways so any ideas?
  - tux 6y ago
    You should never use same profile for your VPN. You can create seperate profiles to use one for direct access and one only for your VPN connection. I would even recommend using different browser profiles for specific tasks. Like "shopping" for example. Create Firefox Profile: firefox -ProfileManager Use Firefox Profile: firefox --no-remote -private -P profile-name Create & Use Chrome Profile: chromium --incognito --user-data-dir=location/profile-name On top of seperate browser profiles (at least in your VPN profiles), you need to do browser hardening and use something like uBlock/uMatrix to block everything by default. [1] I do not recommend using regular Google Chrome for VPN at all. Use something like Ungoogled-Chrome. [2] or similar security browser instead. Also it is highly recommented if you use Linux/Unix OS, to properly firewall your VPN connection. So for example if your VPN connection suddenly stops working, it will not leak out any data. There is many tutorials on how to do this. I'm sure it is possible to do something similar on Windows too. [1] firefox hardening; https://chrisx.xyz/blog/yet-another-firefox-hardening-guide/ https://chrisx.xyz/blog/yet-another-firefox-hardening-guide/ [2] https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium [3] chrome hardening; https://peter.sh/experiments/chromium-command-line-switches/ https://peter.sh/experiments/chromium-command-line-switches/
teddyc 6y ago
Could be scanning available wireless networks and using that to locate you
- Triv888 6y ago
  So Firefox on Desktop would share with Google which wireless network I'm connected to?
  - FroshKiller 6y ago
    What network you're connected to doesn't matter. What matters is what networks your device sees.
    - Triv888 6y ago
      On desktop/linux/firefox/private window and vpn, how can Google know which Wi-Fi network I'm connected to?
      - dylz 6y ago
        HTML5 geolocation if you ever click allow even one time can granularly identify location based on where you are. It sends nearby MAC and correlates this to wardriving-equivalent scans. You do not need to be connected to wifi.
soared 6y ago
Mobile or desktop?
- Triv888 6y ago
  Desktop
nknealk 6y ago
Possibly a dumb one but do you allow your browser to share your location? On mobile if you have location sharing enabled, most devices will allow the browser to get coarse GPS location
- Triv888 6y ago
  I don't share my location in Firefox/Desktop (but I do use the same VPN on my phone).
ynniv 6y ago
It could be the X-Client-Data header. If you are using Chrome, try incognito mode. https://9to5google.com/2020/02/06/google-chrome-x-client-data-tracking/ https://9to5google.com/2020/02/06/google-chrome-x-client-dat...
- Triv888 6y ago
  I use Firefox, so this probably doesn't apply
wtmt 6y ago
It would be easier to offer some better answers if you edit your post and state what device, OS and browser you’re using for the search. Also, are you logged in to Google or Gmail or any other Google services (even if that window has been closed)? In other words, are the cookies cleared in your browser? What’s your DNS setting on the device and/or browser?
- Triv888 6y ago
  It is too late to edit but: > device, OS and browser Latest Firefox on Manjaro/Desktop > are you logged in to Google or Gmail I am currently logged in gmail, but usually not and I'm pretty sure that the issue is still the same (but either way, I tried a private tab and it still knows my location) > What’s your DNS setting Quad9: 9.9.9.9. 149.112.112.112
sathackr 6y ago
If you are logged into your Google account on both the VPN-connected device and a phone with location settings turned on, Google will use the location feature of your phone to locate your usage on the VPN connected device as well.
- Triv888 6y ago
  That appears to be the most likely scenario, but in that case, wouldn't people on the network where the VPN is get the wrong location (aka, my location)?
  - sathackr 6y ago
    It's tying your google account to the location, not your IP
    - Triv888 6y ago
      yes, my VPN's IP is GA, USA and Google somehow knows that I'm in Florida
  - rescbr 6y ago
    Yes, they do. Google geolocates an US-based VPS that I have since 2016 as being in the Ukraine. I have tried to correct it, but Google can't admit being wrong.
gfxgirl 6y ago
How close is the location? Many sites look at your time zone since they can just ask the browser "what time is it"
- Triv888 6y ago
  My VPN is in GA,US and I'm in Florida or at least 600 miles
revicon 6y ago
> For example, when I do a Google search, my location is correct at the bottom of the page. I saw the same behavior. Loading google in incognito mode solves this for me. I know I've granted google access to my browser's location services, perhaps you have too. Loading in incognito mode resets this.
- Triv888 6y ago
  A private Firefox tab on desktop has the same problem for me.
bdcravens 6y ago
As others have mentioned, it's probably correlating both your mobile and desktop, since there's certainly shared accounts being accessed on both.
- Triv888 6y ago
  That appears to be the most likely scenario, but in that case, wouldn't people on the network where the VPN is get the wrong location (aka, my location)?
  - bdcravens 6y ago
    No because it's likely that when you're using Google on the VPC'ed machine you have some sort of session and/or browser fingerprint connected to your account.
bigphishy 6y ago
I like to check what data my web browser shows using.... https://www.ipleak.net https://www.ipleak.net
fileoffset 6y ago
I had a similar problem with an Android phone and VPN, and tracked it down to my DHCP server only serving primary DNS IP and no secondary. In this circumstance it seems Google automatically adds its own DNS resolver as secondary, which was causing DNS leaks. Try tunning tcpdump on your gateway looking at DNS and mDNS requests.
- tompazourek 6y ago
  How can Google automatically add its own DNS resolver? Is that just what Chrome or Android does or is it some other way?
heimatau 6y ago
I would also consider that the problem is the client you are using to connect with the VPN. Sometimes the VPN provider's client are just borky and Google is the first to figure out the issue. I just recently encountered this. P.S. 95% of search attempts can be adequately satisfied with DGG. I'd suggest you isolate G products to a specific browser, this way you isolate what data you actually provide G with.

44 points by Triv888 6y ago

Is it likely to be an IPv6 leak? I setup the VPN server using PiVPN (Wireguard VPN) For example, when I do a Google search, my location is correct at the bottom of the page.

Isthatablackgsd 6y ago

I recommend going to ipleak.net, it a tester for your IP and detecting leaks. It will tell you which source is exposing your information.

Triv888 6y ago
This shows the location of the VPN

java-man 6y ago

browser fingerprinting? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Device_fingerprint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Device_fingerprint

FlyingSnake 6y ago
To second this: You can test your browser fingerprint here: https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/
- YuccaGloriosa 6y ago
  ...or try a different freshly installed browser

phillipseamore 6y ago

In private browsing mode?

aearm 6y ago
Even in private they google seems to know your location

api 6y ago

Are you logged in with Chrome? Are you running other Google products on your computer or behind the same router (e.g. an Android phone) that are logged in and have you added a payment method in Google with an address anywhere? Got any Google home assistant products around? Otherwise they are probably using browser fingerprinting and cross referencing.

2Gkashmiri 6y ago
has anyone confirmed google does these? i personally haven't used google in years, dont hold a gmail account or use their services other than youtube which i do on a private firefox tab. while i do have a unique browser fingerprint according to https://coveryourtracks.eff.org https://coveryourtracks.eff.org >Your browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 327,358 tested in the past 45 days. should i be concerned? now, if i use this same browser on any vpn, if youtube is doing fingerprinting then i am a unique user anyways so any ideas?
- tux 6y ago
  You should never use same profile for your VPN. You can create seperate profiles to use one for direct access and one only for your VPN connection. I would even recommend using different browser profiles for specific tasks. Like "shopping" for example. Create Firefox Profile: firefox -ProfileManager Use Firefox Profile: firefox --no-remote -private -P profile-name Create & Use Chrome Profile: chromium --incognito --user-data-dir=location/profile-name On top of seperate browser profiles (at least in your VPN profiles), you need to do browser hardening and use something like uBlock/uMatrix to block everything by default. [1] I do not recommend using regular Google Chrome for VPN at all. Use something like Ungoogled-Chrome. [2] or similar security browser instead. Also it is highly recommented if you use Linux/Unix OS, to properly firewall your VPN connection. So for example if your VPN connection suddenly stops working, it will not leak out any data. There is many tutorials on how to do this. I'm sure it is possible to do something similar on Windows too. [1] firefox hardening; https://chrisx.xyz/blog/yet-another-firefox-hardening-guide/ https://chrisx.xyz/blog/yet-another-firefox-hardening-guide/ [2] https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium [3] chrome hardening; https://peter.sh/experiments/chromium-command-line-switches/ https://peter.sh/experiments/chromium-command-line-switches/

teddyc 6y ago

Could be scanning available wireless networks and using that to locate you

Triv888 6y ago
So Firefox on Desktop would share with Google which wireless network I'm connected to?
- FroshKiller 6y ago
  What network you're connected to doesn't matter. What matters is what networks your device sees.
  - Triv888 6y ago
    On desktop/linux/firefox/private window and vpn, how can Google know which Wi-Fi network I'm connected to?
    - dylz 6y ago
      HTML5 geolocation if you ever click allow even one time can granularly identify location based on where you are. It sends nearby MAC and correlates this to wardriving-equivalent scans. You do not need to be connected to wifi.

soared 6y ago

Mobile or desktop?

Triv888 6y ago
Desktop

nknealk 6y ago

Possibly a dumb one but do you allow your browser to share your location? On mobile if you have location sharing enabled, most devices will allow the browser to get coarse GPS location

Triv888 6y ago
I don't share my location in Firefox/Desktop (but I do use the same VPN on my phone).

ynniv 6y ago

It could be the X-Client-Data header. If you are using Chrome, try incognito mode. https://9to5google.com/2020/02/06/google-chrome-x-client-data-tracking/ https://9to5google.com/2020/02/06/google-chrome-x-client-dat...

Triv888 6y ago
I use Firefox, so this probably doesn't apply

wtmt 6y ago

It would be easier to offer some better answers if you edit your post and state what device, OS and browser you’re using for the search. Also, are you logged in to Google or Gmail or any other Google services (even if that window has been closed)? In other words, are the cookies cleared in your browser? What’s your DNS setting on the device and/or browser?

Triv888 6y ago
It is too late to edit but: > device, OS and browser Latest Firefox on Manjaro/Desktop > are you logged in to Google or Gmail I am currently logged in gmail, but usually not and I'm pretty sure that the issue is still the same (but either way, I tried a private tab and it still knows my location) > What’s your DNS setting Quad9: 9.9.9.9. 149.112.112.112

sathackr 6y ago

If you are logged into your Google account on both the VPN-connected device and a phone with location settings turned on, Google will use the location feature of your phone to locate your usage on the VPN connected device as well.

Triv888 6y ago
That appears to be the most likely scenario, but in that case, wouldn't people on the network where the VPN is get the wrong location (aka, my location)?
- sathackr 6y ago
  It's tying your google account to the location, not your IP
  - Triv888 6y ago
    yes, my VPN's IP is GA, USA and Google somehow knows that I'm in Florida
- rescbr 6y ago
  Yes, they do. Google geolocates an US-based VPS that I have since 2016 as being in the Ukraine. I have tried to correct it, but Google can't admit being wrong.

gfxgirl 6y ago

How close is the location? Many sites look at your time zone since they can just ask the browser "what time is it"

Triv888 6y ago
My VPN is in GA,US and I'm in Florida or at least 600 miles

revicon 6y ago

> For example, when I do a Google search, my location is correct at the bottom of the page. I saw the same behavior. Loading google in incognito mode solves this for me. I know I've granted google access to my browser's location services, perhaps you have too. Loading in incognito mode resets this.

Triv888 6y ago
A private Firefox tab on desktop has the same problem for me.

bdcravens 6y ago

As others have mentioned, it's probably correlating both your mobile and desktop, since there's certainly shared accounts being accessed on both.

Triv888 6y ago
That appears to be the most likely scenario, but in that case, wouldn't people on the network where the VPN is get the wrong location (aka, my location)?
- bdcravens 6y ago
  No because it's likely that when you're using Google on the VPC'ed machine you have some sort of session and/or browser fingerprint connected to your account.

bigphishy 6y ago

I like to check what data my web browser shows using.... https://www.ipleak.net https://www.ipleak.net

fileoffset 6y ago

I had a similar problem with an Android phone and VPN, and tracked it down to my DHCP server only serving primary DNS IP and no secondary. In this circumstance it seems Google automatically adds its own DNS resolver as secondary, which was causing DNS leaks. Try tunning tcpdump on your gateway looking at DNS and mDNS requests.

tompazourek 6y ago
How can Google automatically add its own DNS resolver? Is that just what Chrome or Android does or is it some other way?

heimatau 6y ago

I would also consider that the problem is the client you are using to connect with the VPN. Sometimes the VPN provider's client are just borky and Google is the first to figure out the issue. I just recently encountered this. P.S. 95% of search attempts can be adequately satisfied with DGG. I'd suggest you isolate G products to a specific browser, this way you isolate what data you actually provide G with.