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These are bad comparisons. Other collectibles are tangible; Bitcoin is invisible. It will take effort to prove that you indeed do have one or more of the "fin

by blunte 6y ago

These are bad comparisons. Other collectibles are tangible; Bitcoin is invisible. It will take effort to prove that you indeed do have one or more of the "finite" (21 million is a big finite when it comes to collectibles) bitcoins. Collectors like to show off their collections. And since most people in the world, many techies included, cannot discern what is true from what is counterfeit when it comes to virtual items, there will be many times more fake bitcoin collections than real ones. You're better off collecting words. Those are finite too, and some fall out of use or even exist only in some dead languages.

Rallerbabs 6y ago
Tangibility is overrated. Just stack sats.
capableweb 6y ago
> It will take effort to prove that you indeed do have one or more of the "finite" (21 million is a big finite when it comes to collectibles) bitcoins. Is it really? Here's how you can verify wallet ownership in about 10 minutes: - The one who like you to verify the ownership generates a signature file from whatever they want - Ask the owner of the wallet to add the hash of that file to OP_RETURN in a transaction from their wallet - Wait for the transaction to be validated (longest step) - The one who wants to verify the ownership can now compare the latest transaction from the wallet to the hash of their signature file Same process applies for proving ownership of bank accounts, although if done in the weekend/evening, verifying the bank account will take longer time and you need to have a receiving bank account to read the signature hash, otherwise the process is mostly identical. The rest of your comment is based on that you can't prove you own any bitcoins, hence worthless as you can prove you own bitcoins, it's trivial really. A quick search before thinking out loud would have shown you the answer.
- joosters 6y ago
  That's 10 minutes more than it takes to show off any other collectible: "Here's my collection of beanie babies!", "Look at my lovely Van Gogh painting!" Now, to prove authenticity of an item obviously takes a lot longer - you need art experts to validate your Van Gogh, and some beanie baby specialist to affirm that your toys aren't counterfeit, but that's besides the point: when you show off a collection, you are doing so to let people view and admire it, not authenticate it.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    Have some imagination will you? Just as you say, you don't want to verify ownership every time someone views your thing. You do it once with a trusted 3rd party, get a certificate or whatever you want, and hang it next to your piece. If you now wanna show off your bitcoin worth, get a e-ink display connected to a raspberry pi that shows the current value of your bitcoin wallet. Have the certificate you acquired for this wallet right next to the e-ink display. Now exactly the same as if you were to show off your Van Gogh. Bit false of you to compare showing a Van Gogh with verifying a bitcoin wallet. More appropriate to compare verifying a Van Gogh with verifying a bitcoin wallet, and we both surely know which one is faster and more reliable.
    - scotty79 6y ago
      And how do you prove the certificate is authentic? You can prove any given bitcoin is yours just by transfering exactly the amount requested by the viewer from one address to another (also yours). It costs whatever single transaction costs and takes exactly as long. You can do it as many times as you need, and you don't need any third party, just a computer connected to the internet that is sufficiently secure for you.
  - snicksnak 6y ago
    Well you can publish your address and everyone can look up your balance, or "collection of coins", on a bitcoin explorer
  - monokh 6y ago
    I took 5 seconds to verify my balance and 5 more seconds to share this with you: https://btc.monokh.com/address/tb1qfapwkjkhe5vh592ypym6qj8k537r0fttwtdsdv?message=29%2F12%2F2020%20Yes%20HN.%20Bitcoin%20is%20the%20ultimate%20collectors%20item.&messageSig=2022011adc954533949fac778e042bb678c9f6b3d023d938ce09e3713939d14cfb32b368a17dbeb6c38b3269d18b206bb162ac733afd258e5cb488ab141171f5f2 https://btc.monokh.com/address/tb1qfapwkjkhe5vh592ypym6qj8k5... In just about every way, digital bitcoin proofs are better than art collections in terms of display and verification. - Is your art collection independently verifiable by everyone? - How long does it take to verify your art? - Can you share your original piece of art + an "original certificate" digitally with anyone in the world? - Can you share your art collection without risk of theft or damage? For Bitcoin, the answer to all those is yes and much more.
- wcoenen 6y ago
  That procedure is for recording a hash in the blockchain, which is overkill in this case. There is no need to make an actual transaction. If you only want to prove ownership of an address, you can simply sign a message with the private key behind it. There's a "sign message" feature in the bitcoin qt client for this purpose. I think Electrum also supports it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
cryptica 6y ago
>> It will take effort to prove... This statement could not be further from the truth. It's far easier and more reliable to prove that you own an authentic Bitcoin than it is to prove that you own an authentic painting. In fact, Bitcoin is the most auditable asset in the history of mankind. The audit process can be done in a decentralized way and carries 0 risk and unlike the auditing processes of other valuable assets, it can be carried out quickly, cheaply and at any scale. All other auditing processes rely on trusting a third party, not Bitcoin. It's the perfect asset. Sooner or later, the reserve banks of the world are going to be forced onto cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is better than gold in terms of supply inelasticity and auditability; these are the two most important features from a reserve asset. Bitcoin is also gaining ground in terms of universal recognition which is the third most important feature.
- Lewton 6y ago
  It's a shame you put that last paragraph, because that one is very much opinion, while the rest is a good explanation of why the GP is wrong
- blunte 6y ago
  If bitcoin is still in circulation, then proving is easy. If it is a relic, and something of interesting collectible nature, then it would be like proving your tablet IOU from the BC times is legit. But in any case, most users have a hard time understanding cryptocurrency systems. Thus, it would be very easy to provide bogus info which looks convincing to a layperson. And because fakes would be common, it would take extra care to _really_ prove your collection is real.
geomark 6y ago
"21 million is a big finite when it comes to collectibles" It's worse than that. You can divide BTC into a lot of tiny pieces. So there are lot more than 21 million pieces. Most collectibles are valuble as the whole thing, not little pieces sliced off of them.
imtringued 6y ago
It's actually much harder to prove that your conventional collection is worth what you think. Sure it might be a pretty collection but maybe only for the collector himself. With bitcoin it might be easier to lie but it is also easier to verify the lie.
- jcpham2 6y ago
  Resistance to fraud you say? Almost as if that’s a feature! ( of the crazy internet money ledgers)
JoshTko 6y ago
Bitcoin collectors are definitely showing off their "collections" to their family and friends. Verification is even better than any collectible, just show them a screen of your coinbase account.

by blunte 6y ago

Rallerbabs 6y ago

Tangibility is overrated. Just stack sats.

capableweb 6y ago

> It will take effort to prove that you indeed do have one or more of the "finite" (21 million is a big finite when it comes to collectibles) bitcoins. Is it really? Here's how you can verify wallet ownership in about 10 minutes: - The one who like you to verify the ownership generates a signature file from whatever they want - Ask the owner of the wallet to add the hash of that file to OP_RETURN in a transaction from their wallet - Wait for the transaction to be validated (longest step) - The one who wants to verify the ownership can now compare the latest transaction from the wallet to the hash of their signature file Same process applies for proving ownership of bank accounts, although if done in the weekend/evening, verifying the bank account will take longer time and you need to have a receiving bank account to read the signature hash, otherwise the process is mostly identical. The rest of your comment is based on that you can't prove you own any bitcoins, hence worthless as you can prove you own bitcoins, it's trivial really. A quick search before thinking out loud would have shown you the answer.

joosters 6y ago
That's 10 minutes more than it takes to show off any other collectible: "Here's my collection of beanie babies!", "Look at my lovely Van Gogh painting!" Now, to prove authenticity of an item obviously takes a lot longer - you need art experts to validate your Van Gogh, and some beanie baby specialist to affirm that your toys aren't counterfeit, but that's besides the point: when you show off a collection, you are doing so to let people view and admire it, not authenticate it.
- capableweb 6y ago
  Have some imagination will you? Just as you say, you don't want to verify ownership every time someone views your thing. You do it once with a trusted 3rd party, get a certificate or whatever you want, and hang it next to your piece. If you now wanna show off your bitcoin worth, get a e-ink display connected to a raspberry pi that shows the current value of your bitcoin wallet. Have the certificate you acquired for this wallet right next to the e-ink display. Now exactly the same as if you were to show off your Van Gogh. Bit false of you to compare showing a Van Gogh with verifying a bitcoin wallet. More appropriate to compare verifying a Van Gogh with verifying a bitcoin wallet, and we both surely know which one is faster and more reliable.
  - scotty79 6y ago
    And how do you prove the certificate is authentic? You can prove any given bitcoin is yours just by transfering exactly the amount requested by the viewer from one address to another (also yours). It costs whatever single transaction costs and takes exactly as long. You can do it as many times as you need, and you don't need any third party, just a computer connected to the internet that is sufficiently secure for you.
- snicksnak 6y ago
  Well you can publish your address and everyone can look up your balance, or "collection of coins", on a bitcoin explorer
- monokh 6y ago
  I took 5 seconds to verify my balance and 5 more seconds to share this with you: https://btc.monokh.com/address/tb1qfapwkjkhe5vh592ypym6qj8k537r0fttwtdsdv?message=29%2F12%2F2020%20Yes%20HN.%20Bitcoin%20is%20the%20ultimate%20collectors%20item.&messageSig=2022011adc954533949fac778e042bb678c9f6b3d023d938ce09e3713939d14cfb32b368a17dbeb6c38b3269d18b206bb162ac733afd258e5cb488ab141171f5f2 https://btc.monokh.com/address/tb1qfapwkjkhe5vh592ypym6qj8k5... In just about every way, digital bitcoin proofs are better than art collections in terms of display and verification. - Is your art collection independently verifiable by everyone? - How long does it take to verify your art? - Can you share your original piece of art + an "original certificate" digitally with anyone in the world? - Can you share your art collection without risk of theft or damage? For Bitcoin, the answer to all those is yes and much more.
wcoenen 6y ago
That procedure is for recording a hash in the blockchain, which is overkill in this case. There is no need to make an actual transaction. If you only want to prove ownership of an address, you can simply sign a message with the private key behind it. There's a "sign message" feature in the bitcoin qt client for this purpose. I think Electrum also supports it.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

cryptica 6y ago

>> It will take effort to prove... This statement could not be further from the truth. It's far easier and more reliable to prove that you own an authentic Bitcoin than it is to prove that you own an authentic painting. In fact, Bitcoin is the most auditable asset in the history of mankind. The audit process can be done in a decentralized way and carries 0 risk and unlike the auditing processes of other valuable assets, it can be carried out quickly, cheaply and at any scale. All other auditing processes rely on trusting a third party, not Bitcoin. It's the perfect asset. Sooner or later, the reserve banks of the world are going to be forced onto cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is better than gold in terms of supply inelasticity and auditability; these are the two most important features from a reserve asset. Bitcoin is also gaining ground in terms of universal recognition which is the third most important feature.

Lewton 6y ago
It's a shame you put that last paragraph, because that one is very much opinion, while the rest is a good explanation of why the GP is wrong
blunte 6y ago
If bitcoin is still in circulation, then proving is easy. If it is a relic, and something of interesting collectible nature, then it would be like proving your tablet IOU from the BC times is legit. But in any case, most users have a hard time understanding cryptocurrency systems. Thus, it would be very easy to provide bogus info which looks convincing to a layperson. And because fakes would be common, it would take extra care to _really_ prove your collection is real.

geomark 6y ago

"21 million is a big finite when it comes to collectibles" It's worse than that. You can divide BTC into a lot of tiny pieces. So there are lot more than 21 million pieces. Most collectibles are valuble as the whole thing, not little pieces sliced off of them.

imtringued 6y ago

It's actually much harder to prove that your conventional collection is worth what you think. Sure it might be a pretty collection but maybe only for the collector himself. With bitcoin it might be easier to lie but it is also easier to verify the lie.

jcpham2 6y ago
Resistance to fraud you say? Almost as if that’s a feature! ( of the crazy internet money ledgers)

JoshTko 6y ago

Bitcoin collectors are definitely showing off their "collections" to their family and friends. Verification is even better than any collectible, just show them a screen of your coinbase account.