24 ms·
CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]
- roenxi 6y agoOne of several advantages military/policing/etc forces have is detailed records of what worked & what didn't in a confrontation, and the other doesn't even necessarily know that they are fighting. That and purpose-built gear which nearly goes without saying. Something I've noticed with the riots in Europe/America/China/the Middle East/Africa is that we now have first hand video footage of how situations play out. Often longform over 20 minutes which goes far beyond what traditional media forces would show. It isn't anywhere near enough to erase the organisational gap, but it is the furthest along the civilians have ever been in that game.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- gonzo41 6y agoThe main advantage 'the man' has is organization and unit cohesion. Riots look fun on TV. and then you're in one. And you've only met these protesters casually a few times. Are you ready to take a beat down for them? And are you willing to fight hard against a tight unit like LEO or the military who have a lot more weapons to escalate with.
- Fnoord 6y agoI believe a better question to ask yourself in such a situation is "Are you ready to avoid senseless violence?" ie. "is this worth it?" I don't believe is worth fighting police during a demonstration. I'm biased, sure, but still if you are in such situation you need to stop for a moment and think about such questions. Whenever I went to demonstrations -and, granted, its been a while since War in Iraq started- I made a very conscious decision about this beforehand. Its part of planning, because it might affect your OPSEC (things such as your possessions and your planned behavior). I also believe its not a valid comparison between physical violence and emotional violence (such as threats). I'm currently reading Ronan Farrow's Catch and Kill, and I keep thinking: "now this is a fight worth fighting for". I'm at 2/3 and I have not read about physical violence [against the reporter, Farrow; not referring to the violated women!] as of yet.
- erdos4d 6y ago> I don't believe is worth fighting police during a demonstration. As many protesters will tell you, in a lot of cases the police start the fight. Are you saying you're okay with them being able to just silence you? What do you propose doing when they use violence to shut down your protest?
- closeparen 6y ago>them being able to just silence you A protest is ordinarily not a story. The police suppressing a protest is a story. Protestors understand this, and there's a whole romanticism around getting arrested on camera.
- jessaustin 6y agoA protest is ordinarily not a story. Over the last month we've seen the strongest proof of this that one could imagine. In India, 250 million farmers and associated union members went on strike. Somehow this event went completely unreported by USA journalists. In nations where the USA "defense" department could conceivably waste more money, the threshold is considerably lower than 250M... more like, say, ten? Twenty? Possibly a hundred protesters in Syria or Hong Kong would be worth a report.
- Fnoord 6y agoSorry, I do not believe the police in uniform are the ones who start the fight. Not in my (democratic) country, at least. Instead, you need to announce a permit for a demonstration. If you don't have one, the police will tell you to leave the premise. If you fail to comply, you might get arrested, even if you don't use violence. But the part where protestors fail to comply with (reasonable and legal) instructions by the police is the part you omit. Whereas I never got into trouble with the police. Partly because I got the popular skin colour, gender, etc but also because I know when to be obedient and sincere. I can only recommend the same. Pick your battles!
- tw25567659 6y ago
- LunaSea 6y agoI think that the biggest advantage the "man" has is the law. If violence is perpetrated against the police, preparators will go to jail. That is however not the case when done by anti-riot police. These asymmetrical rules prevent much from happening.
- wavefunction 6y agoJail is probably the best possible outcome for someone who uses violence against the police, justified or not. As you note the color of law (and usually sympathy of the public as well) is the greatest of the asymmetrical assets of law enforcement and so the police at least in the US have the opportunity to assault or kill you with little or no legal liability.
- marrowgari 6y agoThe reason the 1% is able to utterly dominate the remaining 99% is they are hyper organized. They're even organized around the concept, idea, and execution of organization.
- erdos4d 6y agoThe fact that the most desperate of the 99% will take the 1%'s money to oppress the rest of the 99% has something to do with it. Put another way, I never once met a cop from the 1%.
- baybal2 6y ago> One of several advantages military/policing/etc forces have is detailed records of what worked & what didn't in a confrontation And this play against them, an enemy can study them too. The saying it that the Sun clan spread its military manuals far, and wide to indoctrinate everybody into using few easily predictable military strategies. A brilliant military strategy is always like a zero day exploit. Seeing an errand enemy spy always showing up at known route, and known times to check your garbage, or steal your post? A perfect opportunity to confront him with a few muscular guys, and a soft enough rubber hose.
- flotzam 6y agoSlides (PDF, 36 MB): https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/rc3/2020/Fahrplan/system/event_attachments/attachments/000/004/227/original/20201228-RC3-AMM-CIA-VS-WL.pdf https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/rc3/2020/Fahrplan/system/even...
- kubanczyk 6y agoThe meat starts at 15:52
- Fnoord 6y agoI'd say one slide later. On the slide you mentioned, some are wild claims which warrant more investigation but on their own are shallow. I have my smartphone set to 4G only, and it works, as long as my provider supports VoLTE. Not all do, nor do all phones work with it. Phonecalls always used 2G (data connection stops). I'd love to see the proof of what happened with GPG keys.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- powerapple 6y agoI am afraid the real world journalists don't care too much about Wikileak. I am afraid that's how I feel this way. To me, Wikileak is the real meat journalists, no speculation, no opinion, just information, data for people to process. But we don't want it, we want to read tldr;, one sentence is something I am interested to read about a topic. Journalists know that, they rather publish unchecked facts, as long as it grabs eyeballs. They want to force opinion, ideology to people. Can news be news, not opinions? I don't know. I am not going to anything related to this on mainstream news media I am sure.
- jasonvorhe 6y agoDid you miss that WikiLeaks met with Trump campaign staff that had close relations with russian secret services and then leaked DNC campaign mails so that right wing actors could make that into a pedophile pizza place conspiracy theory? I used to be a big WikiLeaks supporter but these days are long gone. They promised leaks on russian oligarchs that never happened. They promised to "bring down" Bank of America. They promised to release another video showing war crimes by the US that was never released. They criticized the release of the Panama Papers. People who still support WikiLeaks are either lunatics or they tend to have right wing agenda of their own.
- sunshinerag 6y agoso you did not care about the content of the DNC campaign mails? And you are asserting an order of events that hasn't be established... is that what ran in your mind?
- eli 6y agoWhat was newsworthy in the campaign emails that justified dumping a guy’s whole inbox?
- px43 6y agoThe illegal coordination between the Hillary campaign and the DNC was kind of a big deal, and did trigger a wave of corruption getting flushed out of the DNC. I voted for Hillary in 2016, she was by far the better candidate, but I also seeded the fuck out of those Podesta emails because DNC corruption is absolutely inexcusable.
- conistonwater 6y ago– (1) “Do you live in the UK?” / Alternative: “What is your occupation?” – (2) “How long do you stay?” – (3) “What do you do in the UK?” These are the questions I always get every time I cross any border anywhere except the border (on the way in) of my own country. I don't get this bit.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- implements 6y agoTo risk assess wether you have strong roots in the UK, and so are unlikely to overstay and work illegally in whatever country you’re visiting.
- raverbashing 6y agoYes, and? Countries have the right to decide who they want to let in or not
- jstanley 6y agoWhy?
- eitland 6y agoBecause thats how countries have decided it should be. Also removing that rule overnight would cause a lot of chaos.
- mellosouls 6y agoBecause unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world where everybody behaves in good faith. Borders are just one of the tools - but a significant one - established societies can use to ameliorate that.
- dvivsivd 6y agoFor the same reasons I have to pay taxes. Men with guns enforce laws. Good laws, bad laws, whatever. More men with more guns than you and all your pals enforce laws that you are subject to.
- jasonvorhe 6y agoAm I alone in finding that these slides read like the ramblings of a looney?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tyingq 6y agoI'm sort of wondering about that "tap board" in the Snom 870 VoiP phone. Pictures here: http://buggedplanet.info/lost+found/20180323/ http://buggedplanet.info/lost+found/20180323/ I can't tell which parts are supposedly not part of the original phone. The 870 doesn't have bluetooth, but some very similar looking models do, which could account for the antenna on the board. Edit: See my follow up below. I'm now convinced this is a pretty complex tap inside the VoiP phone. No reason for a UHF transmitter to be inside a desk VoiP phone.
- xvf22 6y ago5th image bottom left you can see a little board with 3 black wires running off of it that doesn't look original. Could be a factory bodge but definitely looks a bit out of place.
- tyingq 6y agoAh, thanks. Though the slides talk about, for example, the Spartan 6, which is on the larger board and seems factory looking. That white connector on the little tap board appears to plug into J4 on this board: http://buggedplanet.info/lost+found/20180323/Images/18.jpg http://buggedplanet.info/lost+found/20180323/Images/18.jpg So that larger board would have to be part of the conspiracy. It's the one with the 2 FPGAs, NAND memory, board trace antenna, etc. That board is obviously custom fit for this specific phone, with passthrough cutouts for the LCD ribbon cable, mounting screws, etc. Edit: Actually, I can make out a chip in the top left of that larger board linked above that says SX1231 on it, which is a Semtech UHF transceiver. The QFN24 packaging matches as well. Small excerpt from the data sheet: "The SX1231 is a highly integrated RF transceiver capable of operation over a wide frequency range, including the 433, 868 and 915 MHz license-free ISM (Industry Scientific and Medical) frequency bands." Which is a pretty fishy chip to be in a desk VOIP phone. Interesting that someone might have made a custom fit, nicely silkscreened and barcode part-labeled bug for one specific model of voip phone.
- 1cvmask 6y ago“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” ― Joseph Heller
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- yurielt 6y agoAfter Assange and h Snowden is pretty clear nobody is paranoid the documents are out there the NSA has a system where they monitor people inside and outside the United States the real question is what do you do when they are after everyone
- Craighead 6y agoAnd yet why don't you worry about SORM in Russia or the CCP's monitoring capabilities? I'd take wikileaks slightly more seriously if there intent wasn't solely anti-American sentiment forming.
- shadowgovt 6y agoStatistically speaking, they are after hardly anyone. But they have an obvious vested interest in having sufficient data to track the motions of anyone, because they can't know a-priori who is involved in an activity harmful to the interests of the United States of America until they have evidence an activity has happened or will happen and need to begin connecting the dots to identify the pattern. You can't connect dots you don't have. Most of the NSA's behavior can be understood as maximizing their dots.
- 13415 6y agoTalking about "connecting the dots" is a bit naive in this context, though. The NSA has been pursuing what they called a "total information awareness" program since the late 90s / early 2000s. The goal is to collect all digital data about all of the world citizens, so it can be used later in case that's deemed "necessary" for "national security." Basically like Facebook+Google, plus geolocation and mobile phone data and information from national police registers, credit card companies, and travel agencies. All of this integrated and searchable in real-time. It's a realistically attainable goal for an agency like the NSA. However, the Snowden revelations put it into jeopardy because their prior policy was that merely storing data about Americans is constitutional if it is not queried in an unconstitutional way. It is not. But they are allowed to store anything about anyone else, and they probably still do that. I mean, advertising companies do this at a city block level in many countries already.
- kierank 6y agoGreat to see the political side of CCC in its true form: The ramblings of a paranoid person sitting at home.
- admiralspoo 6y agoA lot of techy Germans are like this for some reason.
- chinathrow 6y agoThis goes into the direction of the tactics used by stasi - Zersetzung. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
- for_i_in_range 6y agoHe makes an important point early on in outlining the mission of Wikileaks centering on making Data and Information freely accessible to all (the concept of Dataism, for those who have read Yuval Harrari’s HOMO DEUS). However, the processing of Information into Intelligence that can be acted upon is what characterizes Intelligence agencies. Wikileaks does not concern itself with this phase. Yet, the CIA’s Pompeo is trying to paint a narrative that Wikileaks is doing this by labeling them a “non-state intelligence agency”, thereby justifying the CIA’s actions to attack Wikileaks. In brief: Narrative #1 - the CIA attacking an “Idealistic Free Information Publisher”. Narrative #2 - the CIA attacking a “Non-state Dark Intelligence Agency” The CIA is actively trying to create Narrative #2, which is a bit concerning.
- cochne 6y agoI think the true narrative is probably somewhere in the middle of those. Did WikiLeaks not strategically publish information for their desired political outcome?
- whatshisface 6y agoPeople keep saying this, but never include the story. What's the meat behind the claim that they did this?
- shadowgovt 6y agoThe New York Times did reporting on the WikiLeaks disclosure of the Clinton emails that suggested the timing indicated political motivation. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/us/politics/assange-timed-wikileaks-release-of-democratic-emails-to-harm-hillary-clinton.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/us/politics/assange-timed...
- medicineman 6y agoHer entire career has been politics. Releasing any information on her at any time can be suggestive of political motivation.
- vbtemp 6y agoHonest question, please don't snipe at me. Can someone please point me to significant leaks from out of china, russia, iran on wikileaks? Edit: since it appears no one can actually answer this question with an actual answer, and only down vote and troll, I think that probably means wikileaks does not make significant leaks from the military-industrial complexes of China or Russia.
- medicineman 6y ago>muh whataboutism
- throwaway829 6y agoJulian Assange's Mandarin, Russian & Persian comprehension skills probably aren't up for the task. And copying and pasting leaks in Google Translate probably wouldn't work either.
- sudosysgen 6y agoWikileaks is an English speaking website. All three of these countries aren't democracies, so whistle-blowers have no incentive to speak up. Finally, if you are from those countries and send info to Wikileaks, you would be sending information to a foreign organization which risks much harsher punishment. For all of these reasons, it is much much less likely for any leaker out of China, Russia or Iran to leak to Wikileaks instead of someone else.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- stefantalpalaru 6y ago> Can someone please point me to significant leaks from out of china, russia, iran on wikileaks? https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/ https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/ https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:Russia https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:Russia https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:China https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:China https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:Iran https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:Iran
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- 99_00 6y agoNow that Trump is out "the left" will end its alliance with intelligence agencies and go back to mistrusting them.
- jessaustin 6y agoBrilliant!
- 13415 6y agoHe's an analyst for "the right", that's why he's so brilliant.
- 99_00 6y ago"Be skeptical of intelligence agencies" shouldn't be a political perspective.
- jessaustin 6y agoAs I'm sure (by your "scare quotes") you know, the actual Left never believed a damn thing CIA said. They remember all of their comrades killed by CIA. My semi-skeptical praise was for the idea that anyone in public view would act any differently just because there's a new occupant.
- 99_00 6y agoI actually don't know anything about the actual left and the fake left. I think you are overestimating how familiar other people are with things you know a lot about.
- motohagiography 6y agoI recommend to people who ask my security advice to not have intelligence agencies in their personal threat models because it only encourages them and they need the budget justification. Working in cybersecurity for a couple of decades, lots of people have stories like these. There was even some speculation from one person that they keep people under surveillance just as training targets even when there is no intelligence value. The whole enterprise is pernicious, but apparently it's the price of civilization. As an antidote to the paranoia for others, consider the sort of person who has to do this kind of thing as a job and whether they are the sort of person whose opinion you value.
- andred14 6y agoIt is not a crime to report crimes.
- pengaru 6y agoIt's maddening when you get caught up in such targeted surveillance efforts. <story time> At one point I programmed from the same cafe almost daily for much of a year. A mid-level drug dealer decided to setup shop in the cafe, often sitting near me. His street dealers would come in about once a week for a pow-wow where they'd all exchange cheap burner phones for new ones he'd supply, backpack was overflowing with phones. I always wore headphones so never really overheard their discussions, and never wanted to invite conversation, so I just ignored this hoping it'd just go away as these things tend to constantly move around. I'd always see some illicit activity in every cafe I worked from often enough, so it wasn't too surprising. Then one day things got crazy with him running out to the nearby clifftop carrying massive binoculars looking over the Pacific ocean, running back in talking on his phone about locations and times of a shipment and trucks dumping "meth shit", it was like a breaking bad episode irl. Everyone in the cafe saw this happening, he was well on the road to getting busted for being so obvious in public. Something had gone wrong with a pickup and he was having a sort of crisis right there in the open, making all these calls and yelling at people about the situation. I ended up mentioning it to the owners who seemed ignorant of this happening in their cafe, as they employed lackeys to run the place and were rarely around. They were furious and clearly intended to do something about it, especially when they realized he was a local guy they knew who went to school with their son. So I avoided the cafe for some time after that. Maybe a month or so goes by and I start testing the waters, guy seems completely gone, all better right? Not quite. Unfamiliar people started showing up at the cafe hovering around me, following me, asking about my phone, phone starts malfunctioning, asking about my laptop, totally obvious and annoying shit. They'd come in and sometimes just sit right across from me without ordering anything more than a single paper cup of black coffee just to have ordered something, and keep checking their watch. Right at the stroke of 5, up and walk out, they were working shifts and eager to leave. When I'd switch to another nearby cafe, they'd miss me for a few days then start appearing there too. When you spend enough time in a small local cafe over years you recognize the locals, you know the customer patterns, this kind of thing sticks out like a sore thumb. All this just because I was in proximity to this bullshit happening in a cafe I frequented. Though, the fact that I was at the cafe nearly every day and probably appeared to not have a legitimate income source I'm sure didn't help. But I wasn't doing anything illegal, just taking a break from the SV grind. What I learned was that there's substantial resources thrown at this style of policing. It's like a dust-devil blowing around to wherever some shit goes down, and whoever's nearby becomes a person of interest. Eventually it will blow on to another priority, but until it does you're annoyed by its invasion into your personal life. I don't remember how long this went on for (if I ever really knew). I ended up stopping going to these cafes for months, just programming from my apt instead, and disposing of that phone not long after it started malfunctioning, simply going phoneless for a very long time. Fortunately my thinkpad never seemed to be affected, though I'm sure I retired it earlier than I would have otherwise.
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- richardARPANET 6y agoMore than half way through watching this. Why doesn't this guy just fit cameras around his home?
- seesawtron 6y agoOne of the questions from chat asked him exactly that. His answer was that he already lives in a government-sector in Berlin where he doesn't need cameras to feel safe at home. The main argument of this talk was about his experiences when he travelled abroad (UK/US) and experienced the surveillance and intimidation.
- richardARPANET 6y agoSure, but they were in his home. If he had cameras streaming to a server recording everything they would stop doing that at least. (Or if they didn't, he would at least have evidence of the criminals faces)
- chinathrow 6y agoIt's not clear (from the talk) if they were in his home at all. He uses a stealth key, I guess the one from UrbanAlps where the key is 3d printend outside in. https://www.urbanalps.com/ https://www.urbanalps.com/
- AntiImperialis3 6y agoWhat happened to Assange is what happens when you take moralistic nonsense designed to control the masses and actually try to apply it to the real world. It's like when people try to apply feminist theory or diversity theory. (Some notes on diversity theory here, turn on showdead in your profile to see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25505252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25505252) I think either Assange only realized it when he got to the point of no return... or will never realize it. But at least, it's a lesson for everyone else who is sharp enough to see it. If you're smart enough, you can work for the elites and rise in the ranks, and get what you want. I'm sure Snowden had time to realize it... except he had settle for working for different set of elites than what he started out doing. Overall, I think he got pretty lucky. Unfortunately for Assange, things don't look so good.
- kordlessagain 6y ago> In February 2016, Assange wrote: "I have had years of experience in dealing with Hillary Clinton and have read thousands of her cables. Hillary lacks judgment and will push the United States into endless, stupid wars which spread terrorism. ... she certainly should not become president of the United States."
- zimbatm 6y agoAt the end he is asking what he can do about it, to stop the surveillance. I didn't feel like he really got an answer for that unfortunately. Living like that must be like hell. Maybe the best option is total transparency. There people operate in a shadowy world. If you take photos of the people following you and post them publicly, that might burn their agents and make the operation more expensive. People in that field probably don't want to end-up on the internet and be linked with image reverse search. Plus it acts as documentation.