5 ms·

Well there was this hyperbolic gem So now, as we struggle to live through a once-in-a-century pandemic... This is just so categorically false, there has been

by Guthur 6y ago

Well there was this hyperbolic gem So now, as we struggle to live through a once-in-a-century pandemic... This is just so categorically false, there has been both the HIV/AIDs pandemic and the Asian Flu in the 60s both were/are way more deadly.

collyw 6y ago
Heart disease and cancer are still killing significantly more people than covid. And are still pretty much ignored.
- dm319 6y ago
  God I keep hearing this. Most heart disease can be prevented or delayed by decades by smoking cessation. Some cancers similarly. We spend huge amount of man power and money on cancer research so I don't know how that is ignoring it.
  - saiya-jin 6y ago
    No smoking, better(also less) eating and more physical activity would cure probably 80-90% of these... for some reason, that's too much to ask for from so many folks because some blah blah excuses, like anybody would care about those. And its not about perfection, any sustained attempt will bring almost immediate massive benefits in quality of life and happiness. One day our descendants will be looking at us as primitive stupid self harming apes
  - shrimp_emoji 6y ago
    The cardiac, pulmonary, and endocrine disease burden tied to air pollution throws a monkey wrench in that, and air pollution kills many times more people per year than even COVID-19 has[0][1]. Humans suck at assessing dangers soberly. Another example: the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA in the U.S. exist solely because 3,000 people died one day. Significantly less is being done as 3,000 people now die per day. 0: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/03/10/every-day-10000-people-die-due-to-air-pollution-from-fossil-fuels/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/03/10/every-da... 1: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/12/03/pand-d03.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/12/03/pand-d03.html
    - claudeganon 6y ago
      Humans are also quite bad at distinguishing between linear versus exponential harms. Suffering the effects of air pollution doesn’t cause your family, friends, and coworkers to be at risk of the same.
  - Guthur 6y ago
    And similar for covid, without lifestyle based co morbidity the fatality rate would be a lot lower. We have over reacted to covid. No one ever puts it into perspective appropriately flinging around non relative numbers left and right and pulling on misplaced compassion. Hats decisions needed to be made and we decided to punish the healthy and young to save the old and sick, and whether or not you like it put like that it's the truth of it.
    - triceratops 6y ago
      > we decided to punish the healthy and young to save the old and sick You're saying that like it's a bad thing. Isn't protecting the weak and vulnerable the entire point of living in a society? Not to mention all the economic "punishment" the young have taken in the US could have been largely mitigated with proper stimulus programs instead of ceaseless Fed money-printing.
      - jlokier 6y ago
        > Isn't protecting the weak and vulnerable the entire point of living in a society? Thank you. I have never seen it put so clearly.
- fukpaywalls2 6y ago
  Hmm, but factors of heart disease, are your choice, no one is forcing McDonald's fries down your throat. Even second hand smoke, you can see and smell it. You can choose to wear a condom or not have sex. Not same with corona virus. Please don't conflate.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  > And are still pretty much ignored. This is says more about where you get your information. Heart disease is talked about constantly. Practically any interaction you have with a medical professional or health insurance company will involve consideration of your diet, exercise habits, how much your smoke and/or drink. The entire point of these questions is to reduce the risk of heart disease. February is National Heart Health month in the USA! Americans dedicate an entire month to talking about heart disease. A time in which we are inundated with news reports and ads about how to improve our overall well-being and reduce our risk of heart attacks. The American Heart Association is one of the most influential non-profits in the USA and they run ad campaigns, lobby politicians and healthcare providers, finance research, and issue guidelines for improving cardiac health for everyone. The same is true for cancer. There's a National Cancer Awareness Day in the USA. There are several high-profile non-profits that raise awareness and finance research into cancer. Medical professionals have guidelines for when cancer screenings should be performed, etc, etc. Cancer is not ignored; heart disease is not ignored. If you feel like you never hear about these topics, consider changing where you get your information from and perhaps you'll hear more about important topics!
- klyrs 6y ago
  In the US, covid has been the leading cause of death for several weeks now. That was before superspreading Christmas celebrations, and next up is New Years. But what do you mean that heart disease and cancer are pretty much ignored? Fundraising, research, and health advice for these causes is extremely popular and visible.
- triceratops 6y ago
  > And are still pretty much ignored Heart disease is a lifestyle disease. If it's being ignored, it's by the patients themselves. Kinda like a lot of Covid patients, actually.
mschuster91 6y ago
HIV/AIDS needs active direct sexual or blood contact for transmission, it can easily be protected against by wearing a condom. Corona in contrast can even be transmitted by asymptomatic people and masks, even hospital-grade PPE aren't a perfect protection either.
- Guthur 6y ago
  Irrelevant, AIDS is still a devastating "once in a century" pandemic.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    I agree with you, it's still classified as an ongoing pandemic and has killed orders of magnitude more people than coronavirus for what it's worth - but at the moment it is nowhere even close to being comparable with the comprehensive devastation that coronavirus has brought over the world, especially not when one accounts for AIDS being a thing for almost 40 years while coronavirus is barely one year old. There were no country-wide lockdowns for months for AIDS, there never was any factual reason to believe AIDS could be transmitted even by being in the same room as an infected person, there were no people dying in hospitals because there were not enough ICU beds because literally every single bed was occupied by another person infected, there were no entire industries employing many many millions of people being destroyed overnight (hospitality, tourism, events, sports). Again: don't get me wrong, AIDS has been a devastating illness especially for the LGBT community. Still, doesn't mean that it's wise or sensible to compare it with coronavirus.
    - jokethrowaway 6y ago
      It's not the illness causing havoc, it's the country wide lockdown Most people dying have underlying conditions
      - mschuster91 6y ago
        > It's not the illness causing havoc, it's the country wide lockdown It is the illness that's causing havoc because people are filling up all available ICU beds - and to make it worse, they're needing intensive care like ventilators and ECMO far longer than previous illnesses!
yellowapple 6y ago
COVID has already killed around half as many Americans in less than a year as HIV/AIDS did in nearly 40, and has killed nearly three times as many Americans as the "Asian flu" pandemic (which was in 1957/58, not "the 60s", by the way). And while I get that most countries haven't completely shat the bed with their COVID responses like we have here in the US, those countries doing better (like New Zealand and Taiwan) have been able to react accordingly and return approximately to normal.

by Guthur 6y ago

collyw 6y ago

Heart disease and cancer are still killing significantly more people than covid. And are still pretty much ignored.

dm319 6y ago
God I keep hearing this. Most heart disease can be prevented or delayed by decades by smoking cessation. Some cancers similarly. We spend huge amount of man power and money on cancer research so I don't know how that is ignoring it.
- saiya-jin 6y ago
  No smoking, better(also less) eating and more physical activity would cure probably 80-90% of these... for some reason, that's too much to ask for from so many folks because some blah blah excuses, like anybody would care about those. And its not about perfection, any sustained attempt will bring almost immediate massive benefits in quality of life and happiness. One day our descendants will be looking at us as primitive stupid self harming apes
- shrimp_emoji 6y ago
  The cardiac, pulmonary, and endocrine disease burden tied to air pollution throws a monkey wrench in that, and air pollution kills many times more people per year than even COVID-19 has[0][1]. Humans suck at assessing dangers soberly. Another example: the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA in the U.S. exist solely because 3,000 people died one day. Significantly less is being done as 3,000 people now die per day. 0: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/03/10/every-day-10000-people-die-due-to-air-pollution-from-fossil-fuels/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/03/10/every-da... 1: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/12/03/pand-d03.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/12/03/pand-d03.html
  - claudeganon 6y ago
    Humans are also quite bad at distinguishing between linear versus exponential harms. Suffering the effects of air pollution doesn’t cause your family, friends, and coworkers to be at risk of the same.
- Guthur 6y ago
  And similar for covid, without lifestyle based co morbidity the fatality rate would be a lot lower. We have over reacted to covid. No one ever puts it into perspective appropriately flinging around non relative numbers left and right and pulling on misplaced compassion. Hats decisions needed to be made and we decided to punish the healthy and young to save the old and sick, and whether or not you like it put like that it's the truth of it.
  - triceratops 6y ago
    > we decided to punish the healthy and young to save the old and sick You're saying that like it's a bad thing. Isn't protecting the weak and vulnerable the entire point of living in a society? Not to mention all the economic "punishment" the young have taken in the US could have been largely mitigated with proper stimulus programs instead of ceaseless Fed money-printing.
    - jlokier 6y ago
      > Isn't protecting the weak and vulnerable the entire point of living in a society? Thank you. I have never seen it put so clearly.
fukpaywalls2 6y ago
Hmm, but factors of heart disease, are your choice, no one is forcing McDonald's fries down your throat. Even second hand smoke, you can see and smell it. You can choose to wear a condom or not have sex. Not same with corona virus. Please don't conflate.
mywittyname 6y ago
> And are still pretty much ignored. This is says more about where you get your information. Heart disease is talked about constantly. Practically any interaction you have with a medical professional or health insurance company will involve consideration of your diet, exercise habits, how much your smoke and/or drink. The entire point of these questions is to reduce the risk of heart disease. February is National Heart Health month in the USA! Americans dedicate an entire month to talking about heart disease. A time in which we are inundated with news reports and ads about how to improve our overall well-being and reduce our risk of heart attacks. The American Heart Association is one of the most influential non-profits in the USA and they run ad campaigns, lobby politicians and healthcare providers, finance research, and issue guidelines for improving cardiac health for everyone. The same is true for cancer. There's a National Cancer Awareness Day in the USA. There are several high-profile non-profits that raise awareness and finance research into cancer. Medical professionals have guidelines for when cancer screenings should be performed, etc, etc. Cancer is not ignored; heart disease is not ignored. If you feel like you never hear about these topics, consider changing where you get your information from and perhaps you'll hear more about important topics!
klyrs 6y ago
In the US, covid has been the leading cause of death for several weeks now. That was before superspreading Christmas celebrations, and next up is New Years. But what do you mean that heart disease and cancer are pretty much ignored? Fundraising, research, and health advice for these causes is extremely popular and visible.
triceratops 6y ago
> And are still pretty much ignored Heart disease is a lifestyle disease. If it's being ignored, it's by the patients themselves. Kinda like a lot of Covid patients, actually.

mschuster91 6y ago

HIV/AIDS needs active direct sexual or blood contact for transmission, it can easily be protected against by wearing a condom. Corona in contrast can even be transmitted by asymptomatic people and masks, even hospital-grade PPE aren't a perfect protection either.

Guthur 6y ago
Irrelevant, AIDS is still a devastating "once in a century" pandemic.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  I agree with you, it's still classified as an ongoing pandemic and has killed orders of magnitude more people than coronavirus for what it's worth - but at the moment it is nowhere even close to being comparable with the comprehensive devastation that coronavirus has brought over the world, especially not when one accounts for AIDS being a thing for almost 40 years while coronavirus is barely one year old. There were no country-wide lockdowns for months for AIDS, there never was any factual reason to believe AIDS could be transmitted even by being in the same room as an infected person, there were no people dying in hospitals because there were not enough ICU beds because literally every single bed was occupied by another person infected, there were no entire industries employing many many millions of people being destroyed overnight (hospitality, tourism, events, sports). Again: don't get me wrong, AIDS has been a devastating illness especially for the LGBT community. Still, doesn't mean that it's wise or sensible to compare it with coronavirus.
  - jokethrowaway 6y ago
    It's not the illness causing havoc, it's the country wide lockdown Most people dying have underlying conditions
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      > It's not the illness causing havoc, it's the country wide lockdown It is the illness that's causing havoc because people are filling up all available ICU beds - and to make it worse, they're needing intensive care like ventilators and ECMO far longer than previous illnesses!

yellowapple 6y ago

COVID has already killed around half as many Americans in less than a year as HIV/AIDS did in nearly 40, and has killed nearly three times as many Americans as the "Asian flu" pandemic (which was in 1957/58, not "the 60s", by the way). And while I get that most countries haven't completely shat the bed with their COVID responses like we have here in the US, those countries doing better (like New Zealand and Taiwan) have been able to react accordingly and return approximately to normal.