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> She received automatic citizenship by being born on U.S. soil, but has no other connection to the country, having left as a baby. Sorry, but there is no way

> She received automatic citizenship by being born on U.S. soil, but has no other connection to the country, having left as a baby. Sorry, but there is no way in hell a European wouldn't know they have dual citizenship by being born in the U.S. And there's no way they wouldn't have renounced it in all this time unless they saw that citizenship as a benefit that outweighs the costs, or at least as a potential benefit down the road. This article imbues Accidental Americans with the stereotypical dumbassery of I-Am-A-Real-American's in an attempt to get me to sympathize with people who don't want to pay taxes. Edit: added Hulk Hogan entry song reference for clarity

mleo 6y ago
I have dual citizenship with another country and haven’t given it any consideration since I have not lived there since I was 18 months old. I wouldn’t know or consider tax implications of the country since I have lived my entire life here and identify as American.
andrepew 6y ago
I don’t think it is unreasonable for them to not know they had US citizenship despite being born in the US. Completely unconditional citizenship based on location of birth isn’t really a thing in Europe. It is also possible they knew and they didn’t think it was a problem. The US is one of only two countries in the world that do taxes based on citizenship.
detaro 6y ago
Why would they definitively know that? It's not exactly a common thing and widely talked about.
mcv 6y ago
This is not true. Many of these accidental Americans really weren't aware of this. Why would they? They never received a US passport or any other official US documents, never lived there, didn't go to school, and had no reason to be aware of their unintended dual citizenship until the US started bugging them for taxes. Also, renouncing this accidental citizenship is far from trivial. That requires jumping through a lot of bureaucratic hoops. They never received any benefit from it, and if they knew at all, they ignored it. And they have no problem paying taxes, they just pay their taxes in the country in which they live and work. They don't want to have to fill in tax forms for every random country that chooses to bestow unwanted citizenship on them. Make no mistake, the only reason this is an issue at all, is because the US is too powerful to ignore. No other country does this (except maybe Ethiopia or Eritrea, I think), and no other country would get away with this. Only the US does. It's rather odd that for a country where so many people question Obama's citizenship, the country is so eager to claim ownership over people who don't want it.
- bloodorange 6y ago
  While I don't like that warmongering nation any more than you do, in this case, it is not a secret that people's citizenship can be affected by where they are born, their parents' citizenship etc. So, if anything, their parents are to blame and not these folks who had no choice in the matter.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Well, regarding the French citizenship, as long as the parents aren't registering their children born abroad at a French consulate the kids are not French citizens. Easy enough yo do all that later. And that part of citizenship is different from requesting passports. Source: My own children, both dual citizenship, different names on each passport due different naming legislation for unmarried parents, one with two passports, the other currently only with one.
  - mcv 6y ago
    The US is really the only country in the world that's this aggressive about their citizenship. A few others come close (I believe Turkey doesn't allow you to revoke Turkish citizenship and claims children of Turks born abroad as citizens, or something like that), but most western countries determine citizenship based on where and how you register your child's birth. It's quite unreasonable to expect all non-Americans to be aware of all these little exceptions in US law.
mantap 6y ago
It's not easy to renounce American citizenship. The US considers itself entitled to taxes from citizens who live in other countries. Even if they haven't been to the US since they were a baby. If you want to renounce citizenship you have to pay up.
- bloodorange 6y ago
  In most countries, you do have to pay for government services. Renouncing citizenship is not a trivial thing and of course most countries would have some fee associated with it. One could claim "I have never been there since I was an infant" but it falls on the people rendering the service to verify the facts. I can see why people are upset (and I don't like the warmongering nation) but many of these complaints are not really well considered in my view.
  - Diggsey 6y ago
    Most countries don't tax their citizens abroad though, so there's no real necessity to give up citizenship. The US charges far more to give up citizenship than most other countries, and requires you to pay any outstanding tax before you can do so. For some people that is just not possible. What exactly are they supposed to do now that they can't access any financial services?
- thrower123 6y ago
  I am looking on with interest as it appears increasingly plausible that US states will try some form of this justification in order to tax in perpetuity former residents who flee to lower-tax states
bitcharmer 6y ago
> Sorry, but there is no way in hell a European wouldn't know they have dual citizenship by being born in the U.S. And there's no way they wouldn't have renounced it in all this time Wrong on both counts. I know two people who fall under the category you deem "no way in hell"
- jancsika 6y ago
  You know two people who were born in the U.S. and do not know that this means they are a U.S. citizen?
erentz 6y ago
I think you’re being a bit unfair. Certainly there will be some like you suggest but a lot that just never thought about it or as the article says couldn’t spend the money to renounce it: “in part because the fees to relinquish American citizenship jumped in 2014 from $450 to $2,350, a sum many U.S.-born people could not afford to pay.” Note when you renounce your US citizenship (as I understand it) you may also be required to pay capital gains on what you own as if you sold it at that time, the rules around this are a little complicated. So imagine you live abroad since you’re a baby, don’t speak English, don’t have a US passport, and now you have to pay thousands in fees and maybe tens or hundreds of thousands in one time tax to the US government to be free from their dragnet, plus met a bunch of legal requirements about having filed your tax returns for past years etc. I can definitely see a lot of people would just ignore that problem thinking it’s US overreach and they are a citizen of a sovereign country, then low and behold one day it catches up with them at their bank.
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
How much do you remember as a baby? I’ve known people who didn’t realize they were actually undocumented immigrants having grown up here past where their memories began. It is an awkward conversation with their parents eventually, but not knowing your citizenship isn’t weird.
TomVDB 6y ago
Even if they were aware that they are a US citizen, it is highly unlikely that they are aware of the tax consequences unless somebody explicitly told them. In almost all countries in the world, there is no good reason to renounce your accidental citizenship of a foreign country and there is no point in going through the trouble of doing so. And that doesn't even take into account the high cost of doing it.
- walshemj 6y ago
  It might only come up in later life when the IRS come after your inheritance "sorry your parent just died - but that house they left you we want a slice"
wenc 6y ago
It's been my experience that most natives of a country know little about the immigration and citizenship laws of their own country, much less another. Why? They've never had occasion to find out, until they find themselves having to sponsor a foreign spouse or do anything that forces them to interact with the system.

mleo 6y ago

I have dual citizenship with another country and haven’t given it any consideration since I have not lived there since I was 18 months old. I wouldn’t know or consider tax implications of the country since I have lived my entire life here and identify as American.

andrepew 6y ago

I don’t think it is unreasonable for them to not know they had US citizenship despite being born in the US. Completely unconditional citizenship based on location of birth isn’t really a thing in Europe. It is also possible they knew and they didn’t think it was a problem. The US is one of only two countries in the world that do taxes based on citizenship.

detaro 6y ago

Why would they definitively know that? It's not exactly a common thing and widely talked about.

mcv 6y ago

This is not true. Many of these accidental Americans really weren't aware of this. Why would they? They never received a US passport or any other official US documents, never lived there, didn't go to school, and had no reason to be aware of their unintended dual citizenship until the US started bugging them for taxes. Also, renouncing this accidental citizenship is far from trivial. That requires jumping through a lot of bureaucratic hoops. They never received any benefit from it, and if they knew at all, they ignored it. And they have no problem paying taxes, they just pay their taxes in the country in which they live and work. They don't want to have to fill in tax forms for every random country that chooses to bestow unwanted citizenship on them. Make no mistake, the only reason this is an issue at all, is because the US is too powerful to ignore. No other country does this (except maybe Ethiopia or Eritrea, I think), and no other country would get away with this. Only the US does. It's rather odd that for a country where so many people question Obama's citizenship, the country is so eager to claim ownership over people who don't want it.

bloodorange 6y ago
While I don't like that warmongering nation any more than you do, in this case, it is not a secret that people's citizenship can be affected by where they are born, their parents' citizenship etc. So, if anything, their parents are to blame and not these folks who had no choice in the matter.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Well, regarding the French citizenship, as long as the parents aren't registering their children born abroad at a French consulate the kids are not French citizens. Easy enough yo do all that later. And that part of citizenship is different from requesting passports. Source: My own children, both dual citizenship, different names on each passport due different naming legislation for unmarried parents, one with two passports, the other currently only with one.
- mcv 6y ago
  The US is really the only country in the world that's this aggressive about their citizenship. A few others come close (I believe Turkey doesn't allow you to revoke Turkish citizenship and claims children of Turks born abroad as citizens, or something like that), but most western countries determine citizenship based on where and how you register your child's birth. It's quite unreasonable to expect all non-Americans to be aware of all these little exceptions in US law.

mantap 6y ago

It's not easy to renounce American citizenship. The US considers itself entitled to taxes from citizens who live in other countries. Even if they haven't been to the US since they were a baby. If you want to renounce citizenship you have to pay up.

bloodorange 6y ago
In most countries, you do have to pay for government services. Renouncing citizenship is not a trivial thing and of course most countries would have some fee associated with it. One could claim "I have never been there since I was an infant" but it falls on the people rendering the service to verify the facts. I can see why people are upset (and I don't like the warmongering nation) but many of these complaints are not really well considered in my view.
- Diggsey 6y ago
  Most countries don't tax their citizens abroad though, so there's no real necessity to give up citizenship. The US charges far more to give up citizenship than most other countries, and requires you to pay any outstanding tax before you can do so. For some people that is just not possible. What exactly are they supposed to do now that they can't access any financial services?
thrower123 6y ago
I am looking on with interest as it appears increasingly plausible that US states will try some form of this justification in order to tax in perpetuity former residents who flee to lower-tax states

bitcharmer 6y ago

> Sorry, but there is no way in hell a European wouldn't know they have dual citizenship by being born in the U.S. And there's no way they wouldn't have renounced it in all this time Wrong on both counts. I know two people who fall under the category you deem "no way in hell"

jancsika 6y ago
You know two people who were born in the U.S. and do not know that this means they are a U.S. citizen?

erentz 6y ago

I think you’re being a bit unfair. Certainly there will be some like you suggest but a lot that just never thought about it or as the article says couldn’t spend the money to renounce it: “in part because the fees to relinquish American citizenship jumped in 2014 from $450 to $2,350, a sum many U.S.-born people could not afford to pay.” Note when you renounce your US citizenship (as I understand it) you may also be required to pay capital gains on what you own as if you sold it at that time, the rules around this are a little complicated. So imagine you live abroad since you’re a baby, don’t speak English, don’t have a US passport, and now you have to pay thousands in fees and maybe tens or hundreds of thousands in one time tax to the US government to be free from their dragnet, plus met a bunch of legal requirements about having filed your tax returns for past years etc. I can definitely see a lot of people would just ignore that problem thinking it’s US overreach and they are a citizen of a sovereign country, then low and behold one day it catches up with them at their bank.

seanmcdirmid 6y ago

How much do you remember as a baby? I’ve known people who didn’t realize they were actually undocumented immigrants having grown up here past where their memories began. It is an awkward conversation with their parents eventually, but not knowing your citizenship isn’t weird.

TomVDB 6y ago

Even if they were aware that they are a US citizen, it is highly unlikely that they are aware of the tax consequences unless somebody explicitly told them. In almost all countries in the world, there is no good reason to renounce your accidental citizenship of a foreign country and there is no point in going through the trouble of doing so. And that doesn't even take into account the high cost of doing it.

walshemj 6y ago
It might only come up in later life when the IRS come after your inheritance "sorry your parent just died - but that house they left you we want a slice"

wenc 6y ago

It's been my experience that most natives of a country know little about the immigration and citizenship laws of their own country, much less another. Why? They've never had occasion to find out, until they find themselves having to sponsor a foreign spouse or do anything that forces them to interact with the system.