3 ms·

I don't see how that's a valid comparison - unemployment benefits are barely enough to survive on, and those in receipt are both stigmatised by society and pres

I don't see how that's a valid comparison - unemployment benefits are barely enough to survive on, and those in receipt are both stigmatised by society and pressured by the government to find a job ASAP. Basic income is about giving everyone a "no-catches" income that's enough to actually live on, rather than merely survive on.

mejutoco 6y ago
I find it an insightful comparison. Probably the closest to UBI today. How do we know receiving UBI will not be stigmatized? It can also vary from place to place (it is cultural). At least in one country I know unemployment is 60% of your previous salary. This could be enough to survive or to live a very comfortable life, depending on your income. I agree with you, though, with unemployment benefits being conditional on finding a job, plus the limited time they can be provided in full.
- GordonS 6y ago
  > How do we know receiving UBI will not be stigmatized? UBI is given to everyone, but I suppose it's true that those that live on UBI without also working might be made to feel marginalised. > At least in one country I know unemployment is 60% of your previous salary. This could be enough to survive or to live a very comfortable life, depending on your income. I'm in the UK, and have no experience of or knowledge of systems like this, but on the face of it, it sounds pretty good.
nelgaard 6y ago
And how much is that? This always comes up and we always hear that it will be enough to live on, but it will not break the budget. Give us some ballpark number please. Danish unemployment benefits are not that low. It depends what you earned before. But it can be DKK 19300 ($3100)/month. That is taxable income, so the state get some back. On the other hand people on unemployment benefit also get many other benefits. So multiplying that with 4.8 mio adult Danes we get 1 trillion DKK. The BNP is 2.3 trillion DKK (most likely a lot less after UBI). So what would a post UBI budget look like? You could cut pensions, kindergardens, special support for children, housing support, etc. But that would not be enough. There have been some experiments. But they all have very little to with UBI. They are not even trying. They usually only last a couple of years and the participants are few and poor. It would be more interesting with with a 20 year experiment that gave UBI to * Totally randomly selected citizens * University graduates * People in low or middle income jobs that are boring. (Dilbert Land) * Nurses I think someone is just scared that they would end up giving $3000/months to some investment banker, that use it to slightly expand his wine cellar.

mejutoco 6y ago

I find it an insightful comparison. Probably the closest to UBI today. How do we know receiving UBI will not be stigmatized? It can also vary from place to place (it is cultural). At least in one country I know unemployment is 60% of your previous salary. This could be enough to survive or to live a very comfortable life, depending on your income. I agree with you, though, with unemployment benefits being conditional on finding a job, plus the limited time they can be provided in full.

GordonS 6y ago
> How do we know receiving UBI will not be stigmatized? UBI is given to everyone, but I suppose it's true that those that live on UBI without also working might be made to feel marginalised. > At least in one country I know unemployment is 60% of your previous salary. This could be enough to survive or to live a very comfortable life, depending on your income. I'm in the UK, and have no experience of or knowledge of systems like this, but on the face of it, it sounds pretty good.

nelgaard 6y ago

And how much is that? This always comes up and we always hear that it will be enough to live on, but it will not break the budget. Give us some ballpark number please. Danish unemployment benefits are not that low. It depends what you earned before. But it can be DKK 19300 ($3100)/month. That is taxable income, so the state get some back. On the other hand people on unemployment benefit also get many other benefits. So multiplying that with 4.8 mio adult Danes we get 1 trillion DKK. The BNP is 2.3 trillion DKK (most likely a lot less after UBI). So what would a post UBI budget look like? You could cut pensions, kindergardens, special support for children, housing support, etc. But that would not be enough. There have been some experiments. But they all have very little to with UBI. They are not even trying. They usually only last a couple of years and the participants are few and poor. It would be more interesting with with a 20 year experiment that gave UBI to * Totally randomly selected citizens * University graduates * People in low or middle income jobs that are boring. (Dilbert Land) * Nurses I think someone is just scared that they would end up giving $3000/months to some investment banker, that use it to slightly expand his wine cellar.