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Did US turn against Google and Facebook? I think so. The trend is clear, the Internet giants are becoming so powerful that government feels threatened and corne

Did US turn against Google and Facebook? I think so. The trend is clear, the Internet giants are becoming so powerful that government feels threatened and cornered.

bookofjoe 6y ago
When I remarked on Twitter about 10 years ago that Mark Zuckerberg was the most powerful person on earth, I got attacked big-time.
- simonh 6y ago
  Power to do what? That’s not an attack, I just don’t know what you mean by power.
  - ngokevin 6y ago
    IMO, essentially mind control and subtle influence of people's decisions and stance on everything, including the outcome of elections.
    - simonh 6y ago
      I’m not entirely sure that he can reliably tilt the deck on Facebook sentiment, and if so he can only push it in very vaguely defined directions. In comparison Rupert Murdoch can exert very fine grained control on specific issues and craft specific narratives to be pushed by his media empire. All Zuck can do is fiddle with algorithms and hope the results tilt one way or another. I’m not even sure he can reliably do that. I think pretty the vast majority of the effects of Facebook’s algorithmic attention trolling have been entirely accidental.
  - amelius 6y ago
    Power to swing elections?
    - mr_toad 6y ago
      Zuck could potentially swing an election. Xi can simply dictate the results.
      - justicezyx 6y ago
        Technically Xi installed by Mr. Jiang Mr. Hu, and numerous power brokers in CCP and outside, probably US involvement was playing some negligible role as well. The power struggles happen inside the high circle of CCP. Rarely one can get the actual underlying mechanism from it. Likely wise, I doubt anyone here understands much how US high power works. Xi also cannot dictate an election result. At least there was no precedence. As there is only one candidate for the highest position. Of course, US has 2 candidates, how much better/worse? I don't know, anyone can judge themselves. As a matter of fact, no election can be held in China. Election was never a thing anyone can understand. Like when I was in elementary school, the classroom head was appointed. No important position was ever elected. You might stand before Xi, and claim that Xi would be powerless if China is to hold an election. And himself and mostly everyone statistically picked on street, would look at you bewildered, probably laugh hard and walks away like anyone who encounter some lunatic. The analogy could be a Chinese run to US Senate speech, and claim that communism is better for US. The next day all the media would laugh so hard that I bet even divided as Trump's US, everyone would unit and celebrate this rare consensus that this Chinese guys is mad. Essentially, both concepts are virtually foreign to each other's mental system. They cannot process them. What I want to say is that, China runs a system that is neither democracy nor dictatorship, in western sense. A lot of people hate China, they often think that's because China is oppressive or authoritarian. While in fact, China is far more exotic than oppressive or authoritarian. I often speculate that people hate China out of the deep fear of unknown. Not only unknown, China is strong enough that they basically position themselves to be unshakable in the current geopolitical system, unlike the old empire, which also claim superiority and reject inspection, but they were not really strong enough to resist. I guess China learned the lesson since the opium war: it's important to be actually powerful than just claiming to have the mandate of the heaven.
konjin 6y ago
The difference is that the worst that can happen to Zuck et al is having their company split up and paying more in taxes. Ma on the other hand could well end up getting Epsteined.
- monocasa 6y ago
  Weird that the example you used for what couldn't happen to Zuck was a western near billionaire killed in his jail cell in Manhattan.
  - franklampard 6y ago
    Exactly. How did Epstein got Epsteined not in China, but in the U.S.?
  - zepto 6y ago
    Was he really a near billionaire? He posed as one but nobody seems to be able to tell where his money actually came from.
    - monocasa 6y ago
      He apparently had ~$600B listed in his will. I'm sure it mainly came from rampant insider trading.
      - nceqs3 6y ago
        600 mil not bil
        monocasa 6y ago
        Lol, good catch, thanks.
  - konjin 6y ago
    Epstein more than likely tried to blackmail at least the British crown. You'd think that people wouldn't try and antagonize a family that owns their own torture tower and shows it off to tourists. Regular corruption is fine in the West though, it's a victimless crime. For people who matter anyway, not the peasants who have to drink drilling oil fluid. The point is that in the West there are clear and mostly unchanging rules that everyone knows. In China not so much. Today you're the richest man in China, tomorrow you're an enemy of the people, next week you have tragically fallen to your death taking a selfie from a ladder. All while doing the same thing everyone else in your wealth bracket does.
frongpik 6y ago
Who's going to provide the most successfull data collection platform (Android, etc.) for CIA/NSA? Not only people around the world carry a device with a mic and a gps tracker, they voluntarily and with enthusiasm report all their whereabouts. They in fact compete with each other about who can provide a better and more detailed timeline of their life. This is better than if everyone had a gps chip implanted in them. If anything, the US will be super careful to not disrupt Google and Facebook too much.

Did US turn against Google and Facebook? I think so. The trend is clear, the Internet giants are becoming so powerful that government feels threatened and cornered.

bookofjoe 6y ago

When I remarked on Twitter about 10 years ago that Mark Zuckerberg was the most powerful person on earth, I got attacked big-time.

simonh 6y ago
Power to do what? That’s not an attack, I just don’t know what you mean by power.
- ngokevin 6y ago
  IMO, essentially mind control and subtle influence of people's decisions and stance on everything, including the outcome of elections.
  - simonh 6y ago
    I’m not entirely sure that he can reliably tilt the deck on Facebook sentiment, and if so he can only push it in very vaguely defined directions. In comparison Rupert Murdoch can exert very fine grained control on specific issues and craft specific narratives to be pushed by his media empire. All Zuck can do is fiddle with algorithms and hope the results tilt one way or another. I’m not even sure he can reliably do that. I think pretty the vast majority of the effects of Facebook’s algorithmic attention trolling have been entirely accidental.
- amelius 6y ago
  Power to swing elections?
  - mr_toad 6y ago
    Zuck could potentially swing an election. Xi can simply dictate the results.
    - justicezyx 6y ago
      Technically Xi installed by Mr. Jiang Mr. Hu, and numerous power brokers in CCP and outside, probably US involvement was playing some negligible role as well. The power struggles happen inside the high circle of CCP. Rarely one can get the actual underlying mechanism from it. Likely wise, I doubt anyone here understands much how US high power works. Xi also cannot dictate an election result. At least there was no precedence. As there is only one candidate for the highest position. Of course, US has 2 candidates, how much better/worse? I don't know, anyone can judge themselves. As a matter of fact, no election can be held in China. Election was never a thing anyone can understand. Like when I was in elementary school, the classroom head was appointed. No important position was ever elected. You might stand before Xi, and claim that Xi would be powerless if China is to hold an election. And himself and mostly everyone statistically picked on street, would look at you bewildered, probably laugh hard and walks away like anyone who encounter some lunatic. The analogy could be a Chinese run to US Senate speech, and claim that communism is better for US. The next day all the media would laugh so hard that I bet even divided as Trump's US, everyone would unit and celebrate this rare consensus that this Chinese guys is mad. Essentially, both concepts are virtually foreign to each other's mental system. They cannot process them. What I want to say is that, China runs a system that is neither democracy nor dictatorship, in western sense. A lot of people hate China, they often think that's because China is oppressive or authoritarian. While in fact, China is far more exotic than oppressive or authoritarian. I often speculate that people hate China out of the deep fear of unknown. Not only unknown, China is strong enough that they basically position themselves to be unshakable in the current geopolitical system, unlike the old empire, which also claim superiority and reject inspection, but they were not really strong enough to resist. I guess China learned the lesson since the opium war: it's important to be actually powerful than just claiming to have the mandate of the heaven.

konjin 6y ago

The difference is that the worst that can happen to Zuck et al is having their company split up and paying more in taxes. Ma on the other hand could well end up getting Epsteined.

monocasa 6y ago
Weird that the example you used for what couldn't happen to Zuck was a western near billionaire killed in his jail cell in Manhattan.
- franklampard 6y ago
  Exactly. How did Epstein got Epsteined not in China, but in the U.S.?
- zepto 6y ago
  Was he really a near billionaire? He posed as one but nobody seems to be able to tell where his money actually came from.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    He apparently had ~$600B listed in his will. I'm sure it mainly came from rampant insider trading.
    - nceqs3 6y ago
      600 mil not bil
      - monocasa 6y ago
        Lol, good catch, thanks.
- konjin 6y ago
  Epstein more than likely tried to blackmail at least the British crown. You'd think that people wouldn't try and antagonize a family that owns their own torture tower and shows it off to tourists. Regular corruption is fine in the West though, it's a victimless crime. For people who matter anyway, not the peasants who have to drink drilling oil fluid. The point is that in the West there are clear and mostly unchanging rules that everyone knows. In China not so much. Today you're the richest man in China, tomorrow you're an enemy of the people, next week you have tragically fallen to your death taking a selfie from a ladder. All while doing the same thing everyone else in your wealth bracket does.

frongpik 6y ago

Who's going to provide the most successfull data collection platform (Android, etc.) for CIA/NSA? Not only people around the world carry a device with a mic and a gps tracker, they voluntarily and with enthusiasm report all their whereabouts. They in fact compete with each other about who can provide a better and more detailed timeline of their life. This is better than if everyone had a gps chip implanted in them. If anything, the US will be super careful to not disrupt Google and Facebook too much.