13 ms·

Switching from Apple to Lenovo

91 points by ynv 6y ago

notorandit 6y ago
Switching from OSX to widows. Bad idea, anyway!
- ipodopt 6y ago
  It works fine nowadays in general for software development with: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/about https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/about You can even have VS code running extension on it and such: https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/wsl https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/wsl Source: I did software development on a window machine recently for a job.
  - EvilEy3 6y ago
    It unfortunately doesn't work fine as an OS. I moved to Macs over two years ago, had to work on multiple Macs(2 2018, 1 2020) and literally had ONE issue during update which was solved in 15 seconds by rebooting into whatever the name of the super menu in Macs. My girlfriend on the other hand routinely faces issues with Windows updates, drivers issues, WiFi not working, random restarts, noise issues. And this is on 2.5k lenovo, which puts it into the same bucket as my MBP. If she didn't need Windows for work she would switch to Mac without looking back.
    - CasReazxcv 6y ago
      I don’t think it’s fair to blame Windows for all random behavior with arbitrary hw and sw configurations. If you build a Windows desktop with compatible components, it mostly works fine. If you install SW from parties who don’t have adequate expertise or quality control in place, you will start experiencing weird behavior. This is because Windows let’s the installed apps/drivers do a lot. Windows 10s should fix some of these issues by restricting what the SW can do and what SW one can install to the machine they own, but not everyone wants to be restricted like this.
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      Some $500 windows laptop are perfectly reliable, and some $3000 laptops are full of issues- unfortunately all I can do, is but one online, and return it if it has issues. I had self-built 3 desktops over 10 years and they have been rock solid. With a laptop there is an entire team of engineers to select and vet parts, I threw together random parts. It is still a mystery to me how that is possible.
carlob 6y ago
I had a very positive experience with a t480s (also switching from mac), though I use linux... The hardware feels much better for my needs than a mac: way better keyboard, matte screen and all the ports you'd expect including ethernet...oh and did I mention it's also way lighter?
- allie1 6y ago
  What distro did you run? I have been contemplating the same with PureOS
  - nobleach 6y ago
    I'm not the OP, but I ran ArchLinux with great success on my Carbon X1C. Everything other than the fingerprint reader were recognized and "just worked". I did also try Manjaro for a few months. It was not too bad either. I did have to fiddle with a few more things to get sound working properly (when I plugged into an external monitor).
    - mdtusz 6y ago
      Another vote here for ThinkPads. I have a t480s and an X1C for work, both with arch and they both run beautifully using the same configs and dotfiles on both (with a few minor changes around display resolutions). They're solid machines if you get a good one and the keyboards are IMO the best you can get.
    - thefunnyman 6y ago
      I had an older X1 yoga that ran Arch great. I now have a newer X1 yoga and got lazy and just threw Ubuntu on it. Since 20.04 everything including fingerprint reader is working great.
  - abdullahkhalids 6y ago
    I run Debian on a T470. Everything works perfectly.
- timvisee 6y ago
mrweasel 6y ago
While Apple has certainly made their share of mistakes in designing laptops (like designing a laptop that will crash because it doesn't starts it's fans when the graphics card get hot, or the butterfly keyboard) general quality is how they trap you. People normal say that Apple lock you into their ecosystem, but that's not the main reason I generally choose Apple product. My reasoning is: That the hell else do you suggest I buy? Windows is still to this day physically cramping up my hand when I use it. It's a slow incoherent mess. I love Linux, on servers, but I really don't want to manage my laptop and the desktop environments are still worse than macOS. For hardware, the minute you want a good screen and trackpad, you might as well just get a MacBook of some sort, the price will be more or less the same and I get macOS. I don't mean to sound like an Apple fanboy, there are other great products out there. Generally speaking though, if I just want my stuff to work, and work together, I don't have many options.
- adkadskhj 6y ago
  Agreed. I switched from macOS to Linux, and i don't see the point if you're not getting something very valuable out of it. I am however, in my mind, so i'm quite happpy. Specifically, i'm toying with immutable operating systems. I view that as valuable because i feel confident in the stability and reproducibility of my system. I'd probably switch back to macOS if they offered something similar to NixOS, but that seems unlikely in the near future. If i use Mac for my next laptop i'll probably stick Nixpkgs and HomeManager on it and touch the OS as little as possible outside of Nix.
  - lifeisstillgood 6y ago
    so reproducible on the metal or on a VM on the host OS? I have a very little skin in the game but always interested in other peoples takes (I am trying to relaunch github.com/mikadosoftware/workstation - basically I want to get ssh -X working for wayland on fedora)
    - adkadskhj 6y ago
      Not sure i follow - but reproducible in the sense that i want a lockfile (ala Cargo, NPM, etc) for my entire operating system. Allowing me to rebuild it perfectly. NixOS has a lot of flaws in my mind (though some may just be inexperience), but it has some super solid concepts of configuration first systems.
franciscop 6y ago
I unfortunately decided to move to Apple with the 2019 Macbook Air, which had the awful keyboard. It genuinely took a chunk out of they joy out of programming for me, to be typing "correctly" and then suddenly a character is skipped or doubled. The great thing is that I identified that as the only major flaw I could find. So I'm waiting a bit and getting the new M1 on the post-holidays with the fixed keyboard. Also as the author suggests, I loathe window since it feel all of the time that they are trying to scam or trick you. I've used Linux forever, which has issues for sure, but at least you feel the system is on your side and the internet people are as well. I was pleasantly surprised about macOS being fairly on the user side (though I do know of the issues e.g. installing 3rd party software).
caycep 6y ago
I use a mac for my main...but the office has to run some old activex windows program. We managed to snag a few T490s on sale, which wasn't bad. But basically we wiped the drive with a fresh install, and it seems to work ok for people who were working on some decrepit Dells before upgrading. Screen and trackpad setup really sucks. I've gone to keeping the program alive on my NUC desktop and RDP'ing in from my mac...
nobleach 6y ago
I've always kept both. For family members, they all use Macbook Airs. For me, I have the 2018 MacBook Pro. I also use a Lenovo Carbon X1 and a Dell XPS15. Apple kills the Dell in build quality. The X1C is a fantastic build quality, and the lightest of the 3. But, it does feel like a laptop from 10 years ago. The black with red highlights makes it feel like an AS/400. I can't knock the machine though. It's a solid performer. All this said, I have no idea what the Windows experience is on any of these machines. I can't imagine I'd want to try it. ArchLinux with Gnome works well enough for me as a macOS replacement. I do most work in a Terminal and Web browser, so it feels like almost any environment would do.
fierarul 6y ago
I would have bet the move would be towards Lenovo + Linux but no, it was a Lenovo running Windows. Apple gear is nice, but you can't compare the price of a Lenovo having a fast Ryzen with the latest MBP. I bought the Lenovo at 1/3rd the price. Considering the difference I think the bumps I encountered are worth the $$$$ saved.
woofie11 6y ago
I have one of each (Windows, Linux, Mac). On the whole, I don't find any dramatically superior. PC laptops do have a race-to-the-bottom. Even top-of-the-line laptops are luck-of-the-draw. Lenovo is far more scammy than IBM ThinkPads of the golden age. I think the idea is you need to be 5% better than the competition to control the high-end market, and they cut quality until they hit that. Apple quality is much more consistent. But with PCs, although really good laptops don't exist, you can build a perfectly fine desktop. Windows has become surprisingly usable with WSL. It's also actually more stable than Linux or MacOS now. MacOS periodically stalls out using all CPU until my mouse pointer locks up, for reasons I can't fathom. Linux runs into oddball issues with complex device setups. Windows just works for me. On the other hand, Windows is trying to become a SaaS, and seems to collect a ton of data, do hostile updates, and really wants to show me ads. For now, I've disabled all of that, but it's gotten harder to do so. If it goes further that direction, it might stop to be usable. Linux has been going down the tubes the past few decades, but isn't bad yet. Complexity has grown, and stability has fallen, but it's still simpler than MacOS or Windows. I can understand and tweak the system. I'd never e.g. run a server on MacOS or Windows. Too much stuff going on behind the scenes. On the whole, I find myself gravitating towards: * Linux for software engineering, math, servers, or similar -- places where I do things by hand and want a lot of control. * Windows for video conferencing, video editing, graphic design, and similar (which is odd, since this is Mac's classic strength, but I'm finding Windows to work better now). * MacOS for general-purpose computing (e.g. writing documents, making a presentation, or browsing the web). It excels at normal things.
- eddhead 6y ago
  Surface devices are great really, no bloatware and clean Windows
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  I don't think update policy is hostile, it is an over-correction of the problem they had before, where average laptop had 3 trojans fighting for control. For the unwashed masses, its certainly an improvement
  - 6y ago
jevgeni 6y ago
Moved from an iMac to a self-built Win10 workstation after the Catalina update completely bricked my Mac's firmware and Apple store in my area wanted to bill me 1.5k EUR for the repairs without any guarantees it'll work. Suggested I buy a new machine. So I did. Went with a slightly odd choice of Windows 10 for Workstations, but the stability, extensibility with PowerShell, WSL2 and ReFS are super solid. Great for development, great for the Adobe suite.
bilal4hmed 6y ago
I dunno, seems like the author had their mind made up from the get go. I use a T480 with Windows and its been a great experience. Lenovo doesn't bog down the image with their own software and it only had their firmware manager.
- jbboehr 6y ago
  > Lenovo doesn't bog down the image with their own software and it only had their firmware manager. Even if they don't, the first thing I would do when buying a new computer is nuke the hard drive and do a fresh install. For me nowadays, it's Linux (NixOS) with LUKS+LVM, but I would do it when I used Windows as well.
j7ake 6y ago
In my opinion, the apple trackpad is superior to all other laptops. And this gap between the trackpads make it difficult to justify a switch to non-apple laptops.
- revicon 6y ago
  I'm surprised I had to scroll this far down to find this comment, it's the reason I can't switch away from macs. There is no even close competitor to the mac trackpad.
logbiscuitswave 6y ago
Have newer Lenovo laptops fixed the keyboard matrix issues where typing too quickly causes the speaker to beep? Words like “should”, “would” or anything that may risk an n-key rollover problem have plagued Lenovo laptop keyboards for me for many years now. I have a couple years old T480 that still does this and typing on it is miserable. The keyboard feels nice enough but the constant missed keys and beeps drive me crazy.
- nobodywasishere 6y ago
  I have an x220 and t450 that I've used with Windows 10 and Arch and have never run into this issue.
treekogreen 6y ago
Another commenter echo'd this here but it's the same for me. I find running WSL2 on windows easier to get up and running and way more stable than running Linux and macOS which just 5 years ago would be the anectote of a crazy person. Things really just work, I get a stable desktop environment, not the prettiest compared to macOS but at least the window + virtual desktop management is leagues better, and an even better development environment without dual booting.
- atoav 6y ago
  Curious, I went the opposite direction: I used Windows for decades, and WSL since I first heard of it. When I switched to Kubuntu i felt like I was finally home. I always heard bad things about KDE but the thing that I found there might be the best desktop environment at the moment. I like it better than OSX even. Ofc there are some annoying things on Linux machines (e.g. having to research more before buying hardware), but Windows isn't without it's annoyances as well (e.g. bloatware like MS Edge that will try to get your attention once in a while, some things that you can easily achieve on a linux machine are cumbersome or impossible to solve, and the ways you do it change much faster than on Linux etc) I use both. But for dev stuff I prefer Linux by a lot.
Rochus 6y ago
There are also Linux ready ThinkPads. I would never ever work again on a laptop which doesn't have a trackpoint (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick). Being able to operate everything without moving the hand away from the keyboard is just great. I also have Macs, but I neither like the keyboard nor the single button trackpad.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
The most insightfull part of the article, to me, relates to Lenovo's website and customer communication: "Everything seems to be on sale all the time, there are laptops of different generations of the same product line being advertised to you." I feel this is on point, and i felt the same buying monitor from LG, it took hours of research to tell the difference between their models, etc - its arcane and impossible for the uninitiated. While building a good OS is hard, getting half decent website and legible model names surely isn't?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
underwater 6y ago
If you're assessing the Windows and Lenovo combo against the benchmark of "Apple-like" experience, then of course you're going to be disappointed, because you can never be as Apple-like as the real thing. What the author has forgotten is that Apple have built one vision of personal computing, but that's not necessarily a perfect vision or best experience for all people. People moving in the opposite direction might have similar complaints about lack of hardware options, form factors, backwards compatibility, ecosystem lock in, OS inflexibility, etc. and forget that that's not what Apple is optimising for. That said, I really wish Microsoft would tackle some of the obvious things. Settings vs. Control Panel is embarassing. I don't hold out hope, given Windows doesn't seem to be a priority for them.
monster2control 6y ago
Couldn’t agree more about everything said here and there is still so much more you could complain about.
peterburkimsher 6y ago
My 2014 MacBook Pro died a few weeks ago. The logic board fried when waking from sleep after a battery replacement. There are no official replacement batteries. I'm trying to find a suitable computer to switch to. 2014 MacBook Pro: + Repair parts are easy to find + Skilled repairers can fix the logic board (e.g. Louis Rossmann, Paul Daniels) + Retina screen, good webcam + Full size USB, HDMI, SD card slots. + SSD upgraded to 4 TB, currently possible up to 8 TB, presumably more in future. - Original batteries swollen. Replacement batteries broke 3 logic boards in a week due to power surges when waking from sleep. - Not sure who to trust in order to replace the battery safely. 2016-2020 Intel MacBook: + AppleCare would allow me to have it fixed for another 3 years. - No full-size USB, HDMI ports. - I can't upgrade the SSD, or remove the SSD and recover data elsewhere - Important chips for repair, e.g. ISL9239, are not available. https://youtu.be/gmRd9IVE6dc?t=490 https://youtu.be/gmRd9IVE6dc?t=490 - No MagSafe 2020 ARM MacBook: + M1 chip is very fast. + Good battery life - Cannot boot into Linux or Windows, which I will need for work. - No more Target Disk Mode - Cannot sync iPhone over USB (contacts, calendars, music, bookmarks, photos) Non-Apple: - No Time Machine - Software compatibility: AppleScript, Office, Keynote/Numbers/Pages, Skype - Cannot sync iPhone over USB (contacts, calendars, music, bookmarks, photos) - Generally heavier, worse webcams, non-replacable batteries - No leaked schematics, boardviews, parts, iFixit guides for repairers. Even though the repairers (especially Rossmann) say many terrible things about Apple, I still think the documentation and parts are easier to find for old Macs than for average PCs. It's been 6 years though, and I don't think Apple are going to change their mind. I want to be able to move away, but it's really hard to find a decent alternative.
- athms 6y ago
  >No Time Machine There are plenty of ways to sync files or clone disks, either natively or using third party applications, both free and commercial. >Software compatibility: AppleScript, Office, Keynote/Numbers/Pages, Skype Office and Skype are available for Windows. Windows has PowerShell and it is cross platform, available on both MacOS and Linux. >Cannot sync iPhone over USB On Windows, you can use iTunes or SMB via Files. >Generally heavier, worse webcams, non-replacable batteries That depends on the brand and model. There are many laptops that are lighter than the MBA and offer more ports. Apple's 720p webcam in their laptops is not that great, it is a decade old at this point and on par with many other laptops. You can find Windows laptops with 1080p webcams, but they are usually on premium models. Brands Dell, Lenovo, and HP (and other brands) have replaceable batteries which use screws and brackets to hold them in place. You might mean user replaceable and this is the same as Apple, the manufacturer will only allow authorized service for battery replacement. Unless you have an onsite service (which many brands offer), you need to mail the laptop to the manufacturer for a battery replacement. That said, there are plenty of third party sellers of batteries for Windows laptops. >No leaked schematics, boardviews, parts, iFixit guides for repairers. Dell, Lenovo, and HP (and other brands) have freely available hardware support documentation on their websites. You can find repair guides for many of these laptops that available from third party sites including iFixit and YouTube.
shvedchenko 6y ago
My last Apple laptop switched off the WiFi everytime I stick the USB in it. And I still remember one of the Air models that placed cooler right on the cap inside, not related to any heating part like CPU or whatever. I've switched to Thinkpad x270 with Ubuntu 20 on it after 13 years of MacBooks and I'm so happy with it! Lenovo is cool!
iqandjoke 6y ago
Once upon a time, some iPhone 6s has TSMC and some has Samsung A9 Processor. Can we call this "cpu/chip lottery"?

91 points by ynv 6y ago

notorandit 6y ago

Switching from OSX to widows. Bad idea, anyway!

ipodopt 6y ago
It works fine nowadays in general for software development with: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/about https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/about You can even have VS code running extension on it and such: https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/wsl https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/wsl Source: I did software development on a window machine recently for a job.
- EvilEy3 6y ago
  It unfortunately doesn't work fine as an OS. I moved to Macs over two years ago, had to work on multiple Macs(2 2018, 1 2020) and literally had ONE issue during update which was solved in 15 seconds by rebooting into whatever the name of the super menu in Macs. My girlfriend on the other hand routinely faces issues with Windows updates, drivers issues, WiFi not working, random restarts, noise issues. And this is on 2.5k lenovo, which puts it into the same bucket as my MBP. If she didn't need Windows for work she would switch to Mac without looking back.
  - CasReazxcv 6y ago
    I don’t think it’s fair to blame Windows for all random behavior with arbitrary hw and sw configurations. If you build a Windows desktop with compatible components, it mostly works fine. If you install SW from parties who don’t have adequate expertise or quality control in place, you will start experiencing weird behavior. This is because Windows let’s the installed apps/drivers do a lot. Windows 10s should fix some of these issues by restricting what the SW can do and what SW one can install to the machine they own, but not everyone wants to be restricted like this.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    Some $500 windows laptop are perfectly reliable, and some $3000 laptops are full of issues- unfortunately all I can do, is but one online, and return it if it has issues. I had self-built 3 desktops over 10 years and they have been rock solid. With a laptop there is an entire team of engineers to select and vet parts, I threw together random parts. It is still a mystery to me how that is possible.

carlob 6y ago

I had a very positive experience with a t480s (also switching from mac), though I use linux... The hardware feels much better for my needs than a mac: way better keyboard, matte screen and all the ports you'd expect including ethernet...oh and did I mention it's also way lighter?

allie1 6y ago
What distro did you run? I have been contemplating the same with PureOS
- nobleach 6y ago
  I'm not the OP, but I ran ArchLinux with great success on my Carbon X1C. Everything other than the fingerprint reader were recognized and "just worked". I did also try Manjaro for a few months. It was not too bad either. I did have to fiddle with a few more things to get sound working properly (when I plugged into an external monitor).
  - mdtusz 6y ago
    Another vote here for ThinkPads. I have a t480s and an X1C for work, both with arch and they both run beautifully using the same configs and dotfiles on both (with a few minor changes around display resolutions). They're solid machines if you get a good one and the keyboards are IMO the best you can get.
  - thefunnyman 6y ago
    I had an older X1 yoga that ran Arch great. I now have a newer X1 yoga and got lazy and just threw Ubuntu on it. Since 20.04 everything including fingerprint reader is working great.
- abdullahkhalids 6y ago
  I run Debian on a T470. Everything works perfectly.
timvisee 6y ago

mrweasel 6y ago

While Apple has certainly made their share of mistakes in designing laptops (like designing a laptop that will crash because it doesn't starts it's fans when the graphics card get hot, or the butterfly keyboard) general quality is how they trap you. People normal say that Apple lock you into their ecosystem, but that's not the main reason I generally choose Apple product. My reasoning is: That the hell else do you suggest I buy? Windows is still to this day physically cramping up my hand when I use it. It's a slow incoherent mess. I love Linux, on servers, but I really don't want to manage my laptop and the desktop environments are still worse than macOS. For hardware, the minute you want a good screen and trackpad, you might as well just get a MacBook of some sort, the price will be more or less the same and I get macOS. I don't mean to sound like an Apple fanboy, there are other great products out there. Generally speaking though, if I just want my stuff to work, and work together, I don't have many options.

adkadskhj 6y ago
Agreed. I switched from macOS to Linux, and i don't see the point if you're not getting something very valuable out of it. I am however, in my mind, so i'm quite happpy. Specifically, i'm toying with immutable operating systems. I view that as valuable because i feel confident in the stability and reproducibility of my system. I'd probably switch back to macOS if they offered something similar to NixOS, but that seems unlikely in the near future. If i use Mac for my next laptop i'll probably stick Nixpkgs and HomeManager on it and touch the OS as little as possible outside of Nix.
- lifeisstillgood 6y ago
  so reproducible on the metal or on a VM on the host OS? I have a very little skin in the game but always interested in other peoples takes (I am trying to relaunch github.com/mikadosoftware/workstation - basically I want to get ssh -X working for wayland on fedora)
  - adkadskhj 6y ago
    Not sure i follow - but reproducible in the sense that i want a lockfile (ala Cargo, NPM, etc) for my entire operating system. Allowing me to rebuild it perfectly. NixOS has a lot of flaws in my mind (though some may just be inexperience), but it has some super solid concepts of configuration first systems.

franciscop 6y ago

I unfortunately decided to move to Apple with the 2019 Macbook Air, which had the awful keyboard. It genuinely took a chunk out of they joy out of programming for me, to be typing "correctly" and then suddenly a character is skipped or doubled. The great thing is that I identified that as the only major flaw I could find. So I'm waiting a bit and getting the new M1 on the post-holidays with the fixed keyboard. Also as the author suggests, I loathe window since it feel all of the time that they are trying to scam or trick you. I've used Linux forever, which has issues for sure, but at least you feel the system is on your side and the internet people are as well. I was pleasantly surprised about macOS being fairly on the user side (though I do know of the issues e.g. installing 3rd party software).

caycep 6y ago

I use a mac for my main...but the office has to run some old activex windows program. We managed to snag a few T490s on sale, which wasn't bad. But basically we wiped the drive with a fresh install, and it seems to work ok for people who were working on some decrepit Dells before upgrading. Screen and trackpad setup really sucks. I've gone to keeping the program alive on my NUC desktop and RDP'ing in from my mac...

nobleach 6y ago

I've always kept both. For family members, they all use Macbook Airs. For me, I have the 2018 MacBook Pro. I also use a Lenovo Carbon X1 and a Dell XPS15. Apple kills the Dell in build quality. The X1C is a fantastic build quality, and the lightest of the 3. But, it does feel like a laptop from 10 years ago. The black with red highlights makes it feel like an AS/400. I can't knock the machine though. It's a solid performer. All this said, I have no idea what the Windows experience is on any of these machines. I can't imagine I'd want to try it. ArchLinux with Gnome works well enough for me as a macOS replacement. I do most work in a Terminal and Web browser, so it feels like almost any environment would do.

fierarul 6y ago

I would have bet the move would be towards Lenovo + Linux but no, it was a Lenovo running Windows. Apple gear is nice, but you can't compare the price of a Lenovo having a fast Ryzen with the latest MBP. I bought the Lenovo at 1/3rd the price. Considering the difference I think the bumps I encountered are worth the $$$$ saved.

woofie11 6y ago

I have one of each (Windows, Linux, Mac). On the whole, I don't find any dramatically superior. PC laptops do have a race-to-the-bottom. Even top-of-the-line laptops are luck-of-the-draw. Lenovo is far more scammy than IBM ThinkPads of the golden age. I think the idea is you need to be 5% better than the competition to control the high-end market, and they cut quality until they hit that. Apple quality is much more consistent. But with PCs, although really good laptops don't exist, you can build a perfectly fine desktop. Windows has become surprisingly usable with WSL. It's also actually more stable than Linux or MacOS now. MacOS periodically stalls out using all CPU until my mouse pointer locks up, for reasons I can't fathom. Linux runs into oddball issues with complex device setups. Windows just works for me. On the other hand, Windows is trying to become a SaaS, and seems to collect a ton of data, do hostile updates, and really wants to show me ads. For now, I've disabled all of that, but it's gotten harder to do so. If it goes further that direction, it might stop to be usable. Linux has been going down the tubes the past few decades, but isn't bad yet. Complexity has grown, and stability has fallen, but it's still simpler than MacOS or Windows. I can understand and tweak the system. I'd never e.g. run a server on MacOS or Windows. Too much stuff going on behind the scenes. On the whole, I find myself gravitating towards: * Linux for software engineering, math, servers, or similar -- places where I do things by hand and want a lot of control. * Windows for video conferencing, video editing, graphic design, and similar (which is odd, since this is Mac's classic strength, but I'm finding Windows to work better now). * MacOS for general-purpose computing (e.g. writing documents, making a presentation, or browsing the web). It excels at normal things.

eddhead 6y ago
Surface devices are great really, no bloatware and clean Windows
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
I don't think update policy is hostile, it is an over-correction of the problem they had before, where average laptop had 3 trojans fighting for control. For the unwashed masses, its certainly an improvement
- 6y ago

jevgeni 6y ago

Moved from an iMac to a self-built Win10 workstation after the Catalina update completely bricked my Mac's firmware and Apple store in my area wanted to bill me 1.5k EUR for the repairs without any guarantees it'll work. Suggested I buy a new machine. So I did. Went with a slightly odd choice of Windows 10 for Workstations, but the stability, extensibility with PowerShell, WSL2 and ReFS are super solid. Great for development, great for the Adobe suite.

bilal4hmed 6y ago

I dunno, seems like the author had their mind made up from the get go. I use a T480 with Windows and its been a great experience. Lenovo doesn't bog down the image with their own software and it only had their firmware manager.

jbboehr 6y ago
> Lenovo doesn't bog down the image with their own software and it only had their firmware manager. Even if they don't, the first thing I would do when buying a new computer is nuke the hard drive and do a fresh install. For me nowadays, it's Linux (NixOS) with LUKS+LVM, but I would do it when I used Windows as well.

j7ake 6y ago

In my opinion, the apple trackpad is superior to all other laptops. And this gap between the trackpads make it difficult to justify a switch to non-apple laptops.

revicon 6y ago
I'm surprised I had to scroll this far down to find this comment, it's the reason I can't switch away from macs. There is no even close competitor to the mac trackpad.

logbiscuitswave 6y ago

Have newer Lenovo laptops fixed the keyboard matrix issues where typing too quickly causes the speaker to beep? Words like “should”, “would” or anything that may risk an n-key rollover problem have plagued Lenovo laptop keyboards for me for many years now. I have a couple years old T480 that still does this and typing on it is miserable. The keyboard feels nice enough but the constant missed keys and beeps drive me crazy.

nobodywasishere 6y ago
I have an x220 and t450 that I've used with Windows 10 and Arch and have never run into this issue.

treekogreen 6y ago

Another commenter echo'd this here but it's the same for me. I find running WSL2 on windows easier to get up and running and way more stable than running Linux and macOS which just 5 years ago would be the anectote of a crazy person. Things really just work, I get a stable desktop environment, not the prettiest compared to macOS but at least the window + virtual desktop management is leagues better, and an even better development environment without dual booting.

atoav 6y ago
Curious, I went the opposite direction: I used Windows for decades, and WSL since I first heard of it. When I switched to Kubuntu i felt like I was finally home. I always heard bad things about KDE but the thing that I found there might be the best desktop environment at the moment. I like it better than OSX even. Ofc there are some annoying things on Linux machines (e.g. having to research more before buying hardware), but Windows isn't without it's annoyances as well (e.g. bloatware like MS Edge that will try to get your attention once in a while, some things that you can easily achieve on a linux machine are cumbersome or impossible to solve, and the ways you do it change much faster than on Linux etc) I use both. But for dev stuff I prefer Linux by a lot.

Rochus 6y ago

There are also Linux ready ThinkPads. I would never ever work again on a laptop which doesn't have a trackpoint (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick). Being able to operate everything without moving the hand away from the keyboard is just great. I also have Macs, but I neither like the keyboard nor the single button trackpad.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

The most insightfull part of the article, to me, relates to Lenovo's website and customer communication: "Everything seems to be on sale all the time, there are laptops of different generations of the same product line being advertised to you." I feel this is on point, and i felt the same buying monitor from LG, it took hours of research to tell the difference between their models, etc - its arcane and impossible for the uninitiated. While building a good OS is hard, getting half decent website and legible model names surely isn't?

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underwater 6y ago

If you're assessing the Windows and Lenovo combo against the benchmark of "Apple-like" experience, then of course you're going to be disappointed, because you can never be as Apple-like as the real thing. What the author has forgotten is that Apple have built one vision of personal computing, but that's not necessarily a perfect vision or best experience for all people. People moving in the opposite direction might have similar complaints about lack of hardware options, form factors, backwards compatibility, ecosystem lock in, OS inflexibility, etc. and forget that that's not what Apple is optimising for. That said, I really wish Microsoft would tackle some of the obvious things. Settings vs. Control Panel is embarassing. I don't hold out hope, given Windows doesn't seem to be a priority for them.

monster2control 6y ago

Couldn’t agree more about everything said here and there is still so much more you could complain about.

peterburkimsher 6y ago

My 2014 MacBook Pro died a few weeks ago. The logic board fried when waking from sleep after a battery replacement. There are no official replacement batteries. I'm trying to find a suitable computer to switch to. 2014 MacBook Pro: + Repair parts are easy to find + Skilled repairers can fix the logic board (e.g. Louis Rossmann, Paul Daniels) + Retina screen, good webcam + Full size USB, HDMI, SD card slots. + SSD upgraded to 4 TB, currently possible up to 8 TB, presumably more in future. - Original batteries swollen. Replacement batteries broke 3 logic boards in a week due to power surges when waking from sleep. - Not sure who to trust in order to replace the battery safely. 2016-2020 Intel MacBook: + AppleCare would allow me to have it fixed for another 3 years. - No full-size USB, HDMI ports. - I can't upgrade the SSD, or remove the SSD and recover data elsewhere - Important chips for repair, e.g. ISL9239, are not available. https://youtu.be/gmRd9IVE6dc?t=490 https://youtu.be/gmRd9IVE6dc?t=490 - No MagSafe 2020 ARM MacBook: + M1 chip is very fast. + Good battery life - Cannot boot into Linux or Windows, which I will need for work. - No more Target Disk Mode - Cannot sync iPhone over USB (contacts, calendars, music, bookmarks, photos) Non-Apple: - No Time Machine - Software compatibility: AppleScript, Office, Keynote/Numbers/Pages, Skype - Cannot sync iPhone over USB (contacts, calendars, music, bookmarks, photos) - Generally heavier, worse webcams, non-replacable batteries - No leaked schematics, boardviews, parts, iFixit guides for repairers. Even though the repairers (especially Rossmann) say many terrible things about Apple, I still think the documentation and parts are easier to find for old Macs than for average PCs. It's been 6 years though, and I don't think Apple are going to change their mind. I want to be able to move away, but it's really hard to find a decent alternative.

athms 6y ago
>No Time Machine There are plenty of ways to sync files or clone disks, either natively or using third party applications, both free and commercial. >Software compatibility: AppleScript, Office, Keynote/Numbers/Pages, Skype Office and Skype are available for Windows. Windows has PowerShell and it is cross platform, available on both MacOS and Linux. >Cannot sync iPhone over USB On Windows, you can use iTunes or SMB via Files. >Generally heavier, worse webcams, non-replacable batteries That depends on the brand and model. There are many laptops that are lighter than the MBA and offer more ports. Apple's 720p webcam in their laptops is not that great, it is a decade old at this point and on par with many other laptops. You can find Windows laptops with 1080p webcams, but they are usually on premium models. Brands Dell, Lenovo, and HP (and other brands) have replaceable batteries which use screws and brackets to hold them in place. You might mean user replaceable and this is the same as Apple, the manufacturer will only allow authorized service for battery replacement. Unless you have an onsite service (which many brands offer), you need to mail the laptop to the manufacturer for a battery replacement. That said, there are plenty of third party sellers of batteries for Windows laptops. >No leaked schematics, boardviews, parts, iFixit guides for repairers. Dell, Lenovo, and HP (and other brands) have freely available hardware support documentation on their websites. You can find repair guides for many of these laptops that available from third party sites including iFixit and YouTube.

shvedchenko 6y ago

My last Apple laptop switched off the WiFi everytime I stick the USB in it. And I still remember one of the Air models that placed cooler right on the cap inside, not related to any heating part like CPU or whatever. I've switched to Thinkpad x270 with Ubuntu 20 on it after 13 years of MacBooks and I'm so happy with it! Lenovo is cool!

iqandjoke 6y ago

Once upon a time, some iPhone 6s has TSMC and some has Samsung A9 Processor. Can we call this "cpu/chip lottery"?