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Heads up, most (not all) women really hate seeing men complain or cry. I think most men who have been around women a lot understand this. It's just the way th

Heads up, most (not all) women really hate seeing men complain or cry. I think most men who have been around women a lot understand this. It's just the way things are, it's not out of malice. If you're a man and you want to sulk with someone, another man or a therapist is best.

sweetheart 6y ago
This seems like a very dangerous generalization.
- hi5eyes 6y ago
  not really
- damudel 6y ago
  It's an experience many men have had. It's pretty difficult to get real data on beyond the anecdotes of many men. Shouldn't matter really, but most men find that it stings when the women in their lives just don't look at them the same way anymore; they perceive that they are now less in their eyes. Men who stay aloof and emotionally distant enjoy women's attraction. Also an anecdote of many men. That said the truly powerful man will not care and is unconcerned with the loss of women.
Pfhreak 6y ago
Citation needed. Complaining is one thing, sure, but expressing a wide range of emotions (including healthy expressions of sadness, frustration, fear, etc.) is considered pretty positive and good by the women I know. Crying is important, normal, and healthy.
- damudel 6y ago
  Most men I know have experienced what he describes; why not believe it? I agree with the sentiment though that there should be research conducted so that it can be understood and be cited to back up men's experiences. Could also be false, but I'm inclined to believe men's experiences.
- roflc0ptic 6y ago
  There actually is research about men and women both turning away from men who are seeking emotional support. College age researchees, so YMMV. Research is referenced in Terrence real’s “I don’t want to talk about it.” Basically you have to learn to express emotions in the right way, and to the right people, at the right time. I had to train my therapist girlfriend not to freak out when I have strong, negative feelings. She would constantly make it about herself (I’m not doing enough, you’re not acknowledging what good I’m doing). There was very limited space for simply expressing how I was feeling, and having it acknowledged without being punished. You also just can’t expect most people to be skillful listeners, or give good advice. Even if they want to help, you need some pretty darn well developed theory of mind to conceptualize how the other person is feeling, and what would be useful for them to hear. I’d also comment that you when men are stressed, it is often incorrectly read as anger, and thus threatening. I was in this terrible situation where I was in a vacation cabin rental with an ex and 20 other people- we’d broken like a week before. I was in anguish, but several people misread stonefaced non-emotion as anger and aggression. The fallout ended up being really immense, and a huge part of it was just a fundamental misread (combined with “all men are abusers and liars!” style distrust. It was real dumb.)
  - newsbinator 6y ago
    Mine is not a valid HN comment because I have nothing to add other than saying thanks for encapsulating this- I've experienced the same and wondered if I was the outlier.
  - mnsc 6y ago
    >Basically you have to learn to express emotions in the right way, and to the right people, at the right time. > a huge part of it was just a fundamental misread I think you are on to something in the first part about you yourself learning stuff but in the last part you just put the burden of those around you. My take is that men in general lack training in identifying/naming their own feelings/emotions. Then when you are experiencing some tough negative emotions you can't express/talk about them and then your secondary emotions come in from this frustration. What emotion that is is personal but often men will go to anger, "it's think it's this thing that is causing me pain so that thing is bad/stupid/wrong" but all along it was your own feelings coming from your own unmet needs that you could have handled yourself if you just had could have named and reasoned about them.
BurningFrog 6y ago
I think it's pretty simple: Women look to men for strength, so showing weakness takes a man out of consideration as a partner.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- pksebben 6y ago
  These are very broad generalizations, and not at all representative of anything like a truth. I concede that it may have been true in your experiences, but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. Let's try not to limit what's possible by inflicting on the world what we expect. Specifically, statements like these become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not only are someone's perceptions influenced by social proof - if someone is treated as if you expect them to behave a certain way, they are more likely to behave that way (if I'm going to catch shit for being dishonest anyway, why not lie?).
  - Geminidog 6y ago
    >but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. It depends on your definition of toxic and your definition of truth. The belief that categorical statements have zero relevance in this world is an ideal that is just too unlikely to be true. Broad statements can be made about both men and women. For example Women tend to have bigger breasts then most men. Men tend to be physically stronger than women. Men tend to run faster than women. Women tend to be shorter then men. Men tend to weigh more than women. These are all the same exact broad generalizations of the same nature that you pinpointed above but have the strange opposite effect. You say it is toxic to make broad generalizations but despite this you and most people would agree that you'd be insane not to notice the general differences in physicality I mentioned above. This is a contradiction. Why is it when someone makes a generalization about the physical differences between men and women there is no resistance but as soon as someone mentions behavioral differences like how women tend to be attracted to stronger men that person suddenly violated a social contract? It makes perfect logical sense. We see it all the time. Women are generally attracted to men that are stronger than them. There are tons of exceptions but the generality is real. The delusion that's occurring within our society today is that although we are aware that biology can control physical differences between men and women by some black magic we cannot even fathom the fact that this same biology controls behavioral differences. No... biology must make men and women have the exact same intelligence and the exact same behavior according to current social thinking. Does this make sense from a logical standpoint? Again... No.... So why do we delude ourselves with this false notion? We do it because we are afraid of sexism and racism. We are deathly afraid of inequality even though logically inequality is biologically built into us. No one is actually created equal biologically in terms of intelligence, behavior and physicality. It goes against everything we know about biology and natural selection. In order for something to be naturally selected it CANNOT be equal. What is toxic is the attempt to paint a pretty idealistic picture of the world at the expense of truth. Equal rights for all does not mean people are born with equal biological traits. Don't let an ideal hide the reality of the world we live in, but also don't let the ugly reality of the world pervert your ideals. We must learn to coexist with the contradiction.
mgh2 6y ago
She might have not known how to react, so tried to be empathetic by communicating what on her mind, was her own struggle - "kids being noisy", childrearing is not easy. She might have been unconsciously signaling: "everyone is struggling some way or another, let me share mine so we can relate somehow..."
Akinato 6y ago
I agree. I have no problem seeing men cry, and I've held several whilst they did so -- and never thought less of them. Crying is a human reaction and men are allowed to experience it too. Crying doesn't make you weak, it's just an outlet of emotion that can really help clear your head sometimes.

sweetheart 6y ago

This seems like a very dangerous generalization.

hi5eyes 6y ago
not really
damudel 6y ago
It's an experience many men have had. It's pretty difficult to get real data on beyond the anecdotes of many men. Shouldn't matter really, but most men find that it stings when the women in their lives just don't look at them the same way anymore; they perceive that they are now less in their eyes. Men who stay aloof and emotionally distant enjoy women's attraction. Also an anecdote of many men. That said the truly powerful man will not care and is unconcerned with the loss of women.

Pfhreak 6y ago

Citation needed. Complaining is one thing, sure, but expressing a wide range of emotions (including healthy expressions of sadness, frustration, fear, etc.) is considered pretty positive and good by the women I know. Crying is important, normal, and healthy.

damudel 6y ago
Most men I know have experienced what he describes; why not believe it? I agree with the sentiment though that there should be research conducted so that it can be understood and be cited to back up men's experiences. Could also be false, but I'm inclined to believe men's experiences.
roflc0ptic 6y ago
There actually is research about men and women both turning away from men who are seeking emotional support. College age researchees, so YMMV. Research is referenced in Terrence real’s “I don’t want to talk about it.” Basically you have to learn to express emotions in the right way, and to the right people, at the right time. I had to train my therapist girlfriend not to freak out when I have strong, negative feelings. She would constantly make it about herself (I’m not doing enough, you’re not acknowledging what good I’m doing). There was very limited space for simply expressing how I was feeling, and having it acknowledged without being punished. You also just can’t expect most people to be skillful listeners, or give good advice. Even if they want to help, you need some pretty darn well developed theory of mind to conceptualize how the other person is feeling, and what would be useful for them to hear. I’d also comment that you when men are stressed, it is often incorrectly read as anger, and thus threatening. I was in this terrible situation where I was in a vacation cabin rental with an ex and 20 other people- we’d broken like a week before. I was in anguish, but several people misread stonefaced non-emotion as anger and aggression. The fallout ended up being really immense, and a huge part of it was just a fundamental misread (combined with “all men are abusers and liars!” style distrust. It was real dumb.)
- newsbinator 6y ago
  Mine is not a valid HN comment because I have nothing to add other than saying thanks for encapsulating this- I've experienced the same and wondered if I was the outlier.
- mnsc 6y ago
  >Basically you have to learn to express emotions in the right way, and to the right people, at the right time. > a huge part of it was just a fundamental misread I think you are on to something in the first part about you yourself learning stuff but in the last part you just put the burden of those around you. My take is that men in general lack training in identifying/naming their own feelings/emotions. Then when you are experiencing some tough negative emotions you can't express/talk about them and then your secondary emotions come in from this frustration. What emotion that is is personal but often men will go to anger, "it's think it's this thing that is causing me pain so that thing is bad/stupid/wrong" but all along it was your own feelings coming from your own unmet needs that you could have handled yourself if you just had could have named and reasoned about them.

BurningFrog 6y ago

I think it's pretty simple: Women look to men for strength, so showing weakness takes a man out of consideration as a partner.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pksebben 6y ago
These are very broad generalizations, and not at all representative of anything like a truth. I concede that it may have been true in your experiences, but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. Let's try not to limit what's possible by inflicting on the world what we expect. Specifically, statements like these become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not only are someone's perceptions influenced by social proof - if someone is treated as if you expect them to behave a certain way, they are more likely to behave that way (if I'm going to catch shit for being dishonest anyway, why not lie?).
- Geminidog 6y ago
  >but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. It depends on your definition of toxic and your definition of truth. The belief that categorical statements have zero relevance in this world is an ideal that is just too unlikely to be true. Broad statements can be made about both men and women. For example Women tend to have bigger breasts then most men. Men tend to be physically stronger than women. Men tend to run faster than women. Women tend to be shorter then men. Men tend to weigh more than women. These are all the same exact broad generalizations of the same nature that you pinpointed above but have the strange opposite effect. You say it is toxic to make broad generalizations but despite this you and most people would agree that you'd be insane not to notice the general differences in physicality I mentioned above. This is a contradiction. Why is it when someone makes a generalization about the physical differences between men and women there is no resistance but as soon as someone mentions behavioral differences like how women tend to be attracted to stronger men that person suddenly violated a social contract? It makes perfect logical sense. We see it all the time. Women are generally attracted to men that are stronger than them. There are tons of exceptions but the generality is real. The delusion that's occurring within our society today is that although we are aware that biology can control physical differences between men and women by some black magic we cannot even fathom the fact that this same biology controls behavioral differences. No... biology must make men and women have the exact same intelligence and the exact same behavior according to current social thinking. Does this make sense from a logical standpoint? Again... No.... So why do we delude ourselves with this false notion? We do it because we are afraid of sexism and racism. We are deathly afraid of inequality even though logically inequality is biologically built into us. No one is actually created equal biologically in terms of intelligence, behavior and physicality. It goes against everything we know about biology and natural selection. In order for something to be naturally selected it CANNOT be equal. What is toxic is the attempt to paint a pretty idealistic picture of the world at the expense of truth. Equal rights for all does not mean people are born with equal biological traits. Don't let an ideal hide the reality of the world we live in, but also don't let the ugly reality of the world pervert your ideals. We must learn to coexist with the contradiction.

mgh2 6y ago

She might have not known how to react, so tried to be empathetic by communicating what on her mind, was her own struggle - "kids being noisy", childrearing is not easy. She might have been unconsciously signaling: "everyone is struggling some way or another, let me share mine so we can relate somehow..."

Akinato 6y ago

I agree. I have no problem seeing men cry, and I've held several whilst they did so -- and never thought less of them. Crying is a human reaction and men are allowed to experience it too. Crying doesn't make you weak, it's just an outlet of emotion that can really help clear your head sometimes.