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We just started a plant-based cheese business in Germany. We can sell and ship within the EU as if it were one big country. It doesn't really matter if a custom

• ihsw 6y ago
  You are free to lobby your MEP and tell them to fuck off with the imposition of "cooperation on foreign policy and defence." The subversion of trade bloc treaties is not a new concept and the EU roundly abuses it to further its "progressive" agenda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_laundering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_laundering
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• Synaesthesia 6y ago
  I just think it's a shame since it makes sense for regions to move towards integration. It's a shame the EU management in Brussels has been so sycophantic to the power of banks.
  • alisonkisk 6y ago
    Nowhere in Europe is more sycophanic to banks than London, where the banks have pushed the human residents out while messing with the economy.
    • sebmellen 6y ago
      I was so shocked visiting London this January. It felt like a modern-day dystopia ­— a city with a large immigrant "underclass" with pockets of WASP-ish bankers working in huge, ugly, and soulless concrete and glass buildings decked with CCTV cameras. Very little nature to be found anywhere, no one smiling anywhere on the street, an underground "tube" packed full of unhappy faces herded around like factory-farmed chickens... I felt like I was on-set for Koyaanisqatsi.
      • systemvoltage 6y ago
        If you haven’t seen, you should watch the documentary Samsara.
      • beaner 6y ago
        I feel like this is what many feel that EU membership has helped turned London into, and by leaving they feel that they are fighting it.
        • maest 6y ago
          What a strange comment. First of all, that's not a commonly accepted description of London amongst Brits and, secondly, the Brexit talking points were clear: control over immigration, take back control, money for the NHS etc. At no point did any of the brexiteers complain about London being some sort of dystopia (???).
          • beaner 6y ago
            It seems directly related to control over immigration.
            • maest 6y ago
              How?
              • beaner 6y ago
                The comment I replied to spoke explicitly about London's "large immigrant underclass," and your response said one of the main talkin points has been "control over immigration." I don't know how more related they could be.
                • stevesimmons 6y ago
                  Paradoxically, the parts of the UK with the highest exposure to immigrants were in favour of Remain. The parts with the least exposure to immigrants were in favour of Leave. And in UK, when you talk about "immigrants", you really need to distinguish which historic wave of immigration, in which socioeconomic class, from which region. Especially EU versus non-EU.
• Kognito 6y ago
  Curious what the barriers you face exporting to the UK currently? Given the transition period the UK has been going through with the country still effectively in the EU without being a member state, I’d have thought it would be the same exporting to the UK as any other EU state, at least until the end of the year. Surely you’d have to wait until 2021 to feel any pain unless I’m missing something? EDIT: Also, I’m fascinated. Are you allowed to market your product as “cheese” under EU regulations? From what I understand they’re quite strict on what constitutes basic foodstuffs like cheese. The dairy industry has lobbied hard against this sort of thing.
  • shafyy 6y ago
    Until Dec 31 we can ship to the UK as if it were part of the EU, that's correct. But we opened for business in November and we knew the deadline was coming, so the UK was out of the game for us from the get go. We'll need to see how shipping to the UK will work after that, but for now we've got other things to worry about :) Unfortunately, the product can't be called "cheese" (or "plant-based cheese" for that matter). Currently, "cheese alternative" seems to be fine as there's one precedent (in Germany at least) where a plant-based cheese company won the case. My understanding is that it's ok to talk about "cheese" on your website, but when the customer makes the buying decision it needs to be made clear that this is a cheese alternative. Honestly, there are no clear guidelines here and the law is very fuzzy. It's a big pain in the ass, especially for a small company like ours with little resources to spend for unnecessary, zero value-adding legal actitivies like these.
• roenxi 6y ago
  But presumably this is because the UK government doesn't want to import German cheeses. It seems likely that post-Brexit UK is in full control of how easy it is for things to be imported in to the UK. They don't need a deal with Europe to influence that. Countries have near-unilateral control over imports (although an exception can be made to that principle for military tech). So this sort of thing is an example of why the UK voters decided to leave - a bit more control over what is entering the country.
  • alisonkisk 6y ago
    If UK tries to limit what enters, they invite relatiation from what the EU allows to enter. Anyway based on polling, that's not why (a slim majority of) UK voters voted leave (except for controlling which people can enter, not which cheese). Lies about NHS funding and the like were a larger reason.
  • dan-robertson 6y ago
    The U.K. imports plenty of cheese from Europe. When you are a small business, you have less access to capital and so you tend to need a larger, faster return on investments. Presumably the expense of working out how to ship cheese to the U.K. (or Switzerland) is not worth the expected near term return. A larger cheese maker could afford this investment (and would be in a better position to sell more cheese to eg supermarkets or wholesalers).
    • roenxi 6y ago
      Sure. So what changes after Brexit that isn't 95%-100% unilateral on the side of the UK? If the UK wants to make it easy to import German Cheese they can just let people bring German cheese over the border. Pay with $US.
      • aembleton 6y ago
        If there was no trade deal then I think the UK would have to allow all cheeses from all over the world without tariffs if it allows German cheese. As far as I can tell,tthe wto allows you to have two tariffs, one for counties for whom you have a deal and another for everyone else.
• snambi 6y ago
  How much business you will get from UK?
  • giantrobot 6y ago
    Well, none now.
  • shafyy 6y ago
    I think after Germany it would be the second most important market for us in Europe. So it might worth jumping through the hoops and see what's the best way to import to the UK :-)
• pierrebeaucamp 6y ago
  > We can sell and ship within the EU as if it were one big country. Is that really true though? To my understanding, there are still laws such as the European packaging & packaging waste legislation (PPWD) that require registration in each country you're selling to. The exact law differs from nation to nation as well, so you still require knowledge about each jurisdiction before you can safely sell to other EU members. Also, while sending products directly to consumers shouldn't be much of an issue, I would imagine that there is some re-packaging / re-labeling needed if you'd actually want to have your German product in the supermarkets of Spain.
  • merb 6y ago
    actually pwd (94/62/EG)) is a no brainer, since you only need to register in your local country and mark your packaging in categories, export and non exporting waste (you either pay only VerpackG or you pay for 94/62/EG). in germany you register on verpackungsregister.org, you get a number and take this number to some weee company, that makes the rest.
    • shafyy 6y ago
      No it's a bit more a pain in the ass than that. Different countries have different regulations, and you need to comply with them. It's true that there are companies that take care of it for you, but of course they want to see the dolla dolla bills for that.
  • shafyy 6y ago
    I'm only talking about direct ecommerce B2C sales here. As long as you don't go over the threshold values (I think it's around €35k / year / country) you don't need to register with the tax authorities in that country. Yes, if you sell to supermarket in Spain there would be more admin stuff that you need to get done first.
• oska 6y ago
  How ironic that you use cheese as an example. The incredible richness and diversity of cheeses across Europe is directly due to them being mostly made and consumed locally in historic times. We would certainly not have that richness now if there hadn't been various historical barriers to trade. And indeed, that richness is already dying out as people increasingly buy EU-subsidised 'standardised' cheeses from outside their own countries and overlook their locally made cheeses. > The infinite variety of French cheeses — one of the finest achievements of French culture — is gradually being eroded and dumbed down. Only one in ten of the cheeses now consumed in France is made with raw-milk or “lait cru” in the authentic manner. > Search where you like in the finest cheese shops in France, you will no longer find a Bleu de Termignon or a Galette des Monts-d’Or. They are among 50 species of French cheese that have vanished, like rare flowers or butterflies, in the last 40 years. Other varieties, like Vacherin d’Abondance and M. Michelin’s hand-made Mont d’Or have been reduced to a single producer. https://unherd.com/2020/02/the-slow-death-of-french-cheese/ https://unherd.com/2020/02/the-slow-death-of-french-cheese/
  • maest 6y ago
    Out of all the things to complain about the EU, arguing that it is killing cheese diversity is probably one of the stranger ones I've seen. 1. It's not clear that's happening because of EU action. 2. It's not clear that's a bad thing (varieties are disappearing because people aren't buying thrm, right?) 3. The EU actually often hets criticised for being _too_ protective of foodstuff variations with their DOC laws.
    • oska 6y ago
      Your interpretation that I am 'complaining' about the EU. I was making the point that trade barriers help bring greater regional diversity and more locally produced agricultural products. This was in response to the parent comment complaining about trade barriers, which might make it somewhat harder for them to expand into the UK but, on the other hand, might make it easier for a UK based supplier to get started in their own market. Thus you end up with two businesses (one in the UK, one in Germany), rather than one. But if you do want me to speak about the EU then yes, I would argue that a neoliberal project such as the EU helps bring consolidiation and makes for big winners (both corporations and countries) at the expense of smaller entities (again, corporations and countries). We have seen this with the EU, with Germany and its industrial corporations winning at the expense of Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc and their industrial corporations losing.
• samtuke 6y ago
  Having recently been involved with a 90k VAT settlement with the German tax authorities due to contradictory interpretations of EU VAT obligations within the Union, I'm wondering what your expectations of operating like a "one big country" are. Another personal example: how VAT is treated on EU grants is different in every nation, despite EC directives supposedly mandating consistency. Oh and legal signatures are also different across the 27 states - eg Poland does not accept them in any form, but organisations representing the EC often require them. EU Harmonisation for my startup feels mythical. Wish it weren't so.
  • Symbiote 6y ago
    I don't have personal experience, but the USA has a similar population to the EU, and we hear on HN about different tax rates in different states, different rules etc.