5 ms·

Does this number actually help? It’s shared kind of automatically but I find it trivializes suicide

systemvoltage 6y ago
People who comment and provide whatever help they can - they're not doing this out of malice. They have good intentions. Whether it helps or not - people in trouble have the choice to accept the consolation or ignore it.
- tonymet 6y ago
  It’s not malicious, I’m saying it’s patronizing and hollow
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    I don't see how it's patronizing. And if it does help people, it's certainly not hollow.
warent 6y ago
When I was a younger going through a very painful time there was a brief period of suicidal ideation and the suicide hotline would have been a very useful resource for me. I didn't know about it at the time, so I just called 911, and they were very kind to me but their response was absolutely awful. It was pretty clear they weren't trained for such conversations, and just send the police to pick me up. The police! Fortunately at the time I just needed anybody in the world to show that they didn't want me to die, and that was just enough. But the hotline probably would have been more effective and not ended in me in a police cruiser.
- laurent92 6y ago
  Same kind of experience here in France. I could only find 7 numbers, 2 of which for women only and 1 for teens. So I tried the 4 others and met answering machines such as (textually) “We are open Tuesday 5pm-9pm”. Needless to say, I wish they’d be at least open midnight-to-1am, that would be more useful, it was my peak symptom time. Even more seriously, it is really hard to call someone when depressed, let alone nag them until they answer. Because you don’t feel useful. Nor important to this world. So “why would you pull public resources” was the logic. I don’t remember how I spent the night, but I’m still here. I have the opposite attitude now 2 years later, I’ll take revenge by staying here and consuming public resources. It’s barely more sane, but it keeps me alive.
  - DougN7 6y ago
    I’m glad you’re here. Keep using those resources! If you ever want to talk I can listen.
  - throwaway3699 6y ago
    I'm shocked there are women and teen only lines. Suicide in men is skyrocketing and people just seem to laugh if you bring up points like this.
    - alisonkisk 6y ago
      Men have always been at higher risk for suicide and death in general than women (especially at work in dangerous jobs), at least since childbirth was made mostly safe. But men's lives don't matter in most modern societies, since they are easily replaced.
    - laurent92 6y ago
      Just for historical anecdote, the ILO agreement of 1930 on banning forced labour had the same tilt to it: It was for women-and-teens. It is titled « Elimination of all forms of forced and compulsory labour », but excludes « able-bodied men aged 18 to 49. » https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/@ed_norm/@declaration/documents/publication/wcms_095895.pdf https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/@ed_norm/@declarati... Article 11, page 30. We had to wait until the UN convention of 1957 to have a universal treaty on forced labour which included men.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  Calling the police is like waving around a loaded gun. It's not what you want in a moment of crisis. It has some value when the crisis has past and the people are gone. Under the US Constitution and law, police have a duty to aid the state, not any specific person living in it.
hiddencost 6y ago
I've volunteered fairly regularly on one of the member hotlines, and have personally attempted suicide. Out of 1000 calls I had one person attempt, maybe 10 people decide not to attempt, and the rest were just people who were anxious or sad or scared and were having thoughts. There's a very broad spectrum, and for someone who is hopeless or just lonely and sad, talking to a caring human who listens and is comfortable with your pain does help, yes. For people in a crisis, having someone calm who can talk through what's happening without panicking helps, yes. I'm curious where you're coming from on this, as I don't understand the perspective behind your comment.
- tonymet 6y ago
  I think it’s a fine service , I’m questioning the ubiquitous copy pasta of sharing the number as if that’s what’s needed . The number itself is everywhere
  - bouncycastle 6y ago
    Having a culture of sharing it is good, I think - it means that they save spending on advertising and have more funds for other things.
  - ip26 6y ago
    The idea behind resharing it is basically to grab someone's attention who is contemplating self-harm and redirect them. The number is always available, but from the sound of it, someone about to commit self-harm is often feeling hopeless, alone, and has severe tunnel vision. So you have to get the offer of help right in front of them. This is why the number is posted all over bridges. It's also allegedly a very acute thing. Many individuals contemplating self-harm, I am told, don't really want to, and are in that vulnerable moment only briefly, maybe only ever a few times. So helping them is truly possible.
    - ineedasername 6y ago
      I can absolutely second the "tunnel vision" aspect of that state of mind. the more you put this number and other resources in front of people, the more likely it is to sleep into that tunnel.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ineedasername 6y ago
If it trivializes suicide, that just means more people might call. But the same core of people that try need help will still be among them. Out of the countless people in distress that might attempt or succeed in suicide, there is a subset that are on that edge where they're looking for that last bit of help, wanting to try a last hope before taking an irrevocable step. To be sure, by itself it is not nearly as effective as more personal and substantial interventions, but that is not it's purpose either. It is not there for treatment, it's there to help stabilize an emotional state enough to convince the person to seek those more substantial interventions.
kodah 6y ago
I have not used this number and sometimes when these kind of numbers are included in news pieces I have a big eye roll due to it looking like a rubber stamp. That said, I'm part of other groups that are certainly in on-going crises and I'd love to see our resources plastered everywhere, sincerity or not. At the very least it makes some people stop and think, some may donate, some may volunteer. That's worth my eye rolls.
- zenexer 6y ago
  It's one of those situations in which one organization does it and everyone else realizes there are no downsides. It's probably more sincere that we'd like to admit. Sure, there might be a liability aspect to it, but why wouldn't you plaster it all over, even if it's a rubber stamp? At worst, it has no effect. At best, you help people--people who are likely your customers. Dead customers don't pay bills.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  My local highway has 100s of those metal gaurdrails and while I know they mean well, only 1 of them has ever been used.
dhaivat 6y ago
It might, even if one out of thousand who use it, I’d say it is worth it. A simple act of talking to someone is enough to walk someone off the metaphorical and literal ledge. That one call can lead to long term therapy and counseling. I know where you are coming from - it feels like a drive by post with a phone number.. but I really don’t have any other options to offer.
nom 6y ago
Having met several people taking calls on similar numbers (in European countries though) and also called a few times myself, I can tell you: They help more than you can imagine. Most callers are not suicidal, they just need someone empathetic they can talk to. 'Suicide hotline' is just one of the few keywords that are very effective, it catches people in their most vulnerable state right before it's too late for help. Type 'suicide' into google and they show you a number above all results. To everyone who doesn't have a support structure, please just search for 'suicide/depression/anxiety/* hotline' in your language. You most likely will find someone who will talk to you for an hour at 4am. Don't feel bad about it, you are not bothering anyone, they often do it voluntarily and just want to help others.
tw25532050 6y ago
It might help folks that can be helped by talking to someone. For someone like me, it would only make me feel bad, like I'm burdening someone else with the knowledge that I'm going to end my life; I know they won't be able to "talk me out of it". I have no friends, no family, nor any coworkers since July. No one will notice me being dead then any more than they notice me being absent now. When the money runs out, I have the nitrogen tank ready to go. Life isn't for everyone.
- ip26 6y ago
  You need some kind of lonely together COVID pod. Other people in the same circumstances. As long as your circle of contact is a closed loop, the exposure is not a big deal (same as with a family quarantined together). You might not have a lot of shared interests or whatever, but there are countless others suffering exactly like you- in this, you are not alone. People feel a little better being lonely together. And you know, two key ingredients to friendship are simply shared hardship & routine interaction. P.S. Ever consider volunteering with Big Brothers Big Sisters?
- smeej 6y ago
  For some of us, it's not about changing your mind. You're right--life isn't for everyone. Death comes for everyone, one way or another, at some point. Normally we don't pick when, but maybe you're right and this is how it comes for you. That's not up to me. If you don't want to go through it alone, though, you don't have to. We could look that mystery in its face together. See what's there. I'm not expecting to go through it myself yet, but I'd stand there with you while you do. I'm not any kind of counselor. I'm a longtime lurker who just made an account to say your confrontation with and even path through your own death isn't a burden for everyone. If you want to talk with someone about it, that option is available to you.
  - tw25532050 6y ago
    I appreciate the offer. For me there's no great mystery; I die every night, and wake up every morning with that dead guy's memories. Life takes effort, and keeping that cycle going just hasn't been worth the effort for a long time. I made the decision months ago. I think there are a lot of people who keep putting in the effort only to avoid imposing suffering on their loved ones and others. So, in a way I'm lucky in my loneliness: I'm free to be selfish.
throwawayafgxpm 6y ago
'Golden Phone' by Micachu & The Shapes. The Golden Phone is the yellow-painted suicide hotline phone found on bridges. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TRkZpFgJcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TRkZpFgJcI (it's upbeat)
- throwawayafgxpm 6y ago
  One other. Nice for the lonely tonight. Unsettling but still beautiful, I think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkICkf8e1GA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkICkf8e1GA
watwut 6y ago
Afaik, number of suicides went down and number of calls went up when they first time started to put that thing under articles about suicide.

People who comment and provide whatever help they can - they're not doing this out of malice. They have good intentions. Whether it helps or not - people in trouble have the choice to accept the consolation or ignore it.

tonymet 6y ago
It’s not malicious, I’m saying it’s patronizing and hollow
- ineedasername 6y ago
  I don't see how it's patronizing. And if it does help people, it's certainly not hollow.

warent 6y ago

When I was a younger going through a very painful time there was a brief period of suicidal ideation and the suicide hotline would have been a very useful resource for me. I didn't know about it at the time, so I just called 911, and they were very kind to me but their response was absolutely awful. It was pretty clear they weren't trained for such conversations, and just send the police to pick me up. The police! Fortunately at the time I just needed anybody in the world to show that they didn't want me to die, and that was just enough. But the hotline probably would have been more effective and not ended in me in a police cruiser.

laurent92 6y ago
Same kind of experience here in France. I could only find 7 numbers, 2 of which for women only and 1 for teens. So I tried the 4 others and met answering machines such as (textually) “We are open Tuesday 5pm-9pm”. Needless to say, I wish they’d be at least open midnight-to-1am, that would be more useful, it was my peak symptom time. Even more seriously, it is really hard to call someone when depressed, let alone nag them until they answer. Because you don’t feel useful. Nor important to this world. So “why would you pull public resources” was the logic. I don’t remember how I spent the night, but I’m still here. I have the opposite attitude now 2 years later, I’ll take revenge by staying here and consuming public resources. It’s barely more sane, but it keeps me alive.
- DougN7 6y ago
  I’m glad you’re here. Keep using those resources! If you ever want to talk I can listen.
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  I'm shocked there are women and teen only lines. Suicide in men is skyrocketing and people just seem to laugh if you bring up points like this.
  - alisonkisk 6y ago
    Men have always been at higher risk for suicide and death in general than women (especially at work in dangerous jobs), at least since childbirth was made mostly safe. But men's lives don't matter in most modern societies, since they are easily replaced.
  - laurent92 6y ago
    Just for historical anecdote, the ILO agreement of 1930 on banning forced labour had the same tilt to it: It was for women-and-teens. It is titled « Elimination of all forms of forced and compulsory labour », but excludes « able-bodied men aged 18 to 49. » https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/@ed_norm/@declaration/documents/publication/wcms_095895.pdf https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/@ed_norm/@declarati... Article 11, page 30. We had to wait until the UN convention of 1957 to have a universal treaty on forced labour which included men.
alisonkisk 6y ago
Calling the police is like waving around a loaded gun. It's not what you want in a moment of crisis. It has some value when the crisis has past and the people are gone. Under the US Constitution and law, police have a duty to aid the state, not any specific person living in it.

hiddencost 6y ago

I've volunteered fairly regularly on one of the member hotlines, and have personally attempted suicide. Out of 1000 calls I had one person attempt, maybe 10 people decide not to attempt, and the rest were just people who were anxious or sad or scared and were having thoughts. There's a very broad spectrum, and for someone who is hopeless or just lonely and sad, talking to a caring human who listens and is comfortable with your pain does help, yes. For people in a crisis, having someone calm who can talk through what's happening without panicking helps, yes. I'm curious where you're coming from on this, as I don't understand the perspective behind your comment.

tonymet 6y ago
I think it’s a fine service , I’m questioning the ubiquitous copy pasta of sharing the number as if that’s what’s needed . The number itself is everywhere
- bouncycastle 6y ago
  Having a culture of sharing it is good, I think - it means that they save spending on advertising and have more funds for other things.
- ip26 6y ago
  The idea behind resharing it is basically to grab someone's attention who is contemplating self-harm and redirect them. The number is always available, but from the sound of it, someone about to commit self-harm is often feeling hopeless, alone, and has severe tunnel vision. So you have to get the offer of help right in front of them. This is why the number is posted all over bridges. It's also allegedly a very acute thing. Many individuals contemplating self-harm, I am told, don't really want to, and are in that vulnerable moment only briefly, maybe only ever a few times. So helping them is truly possible.
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    I can absolutely second the "tunnel vision" aspect of that state of mind. the more you put this number and other resources in front of people, the more likely it is to sleep into that tunnel.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ineedasername 6y ago

If it trivializes suicide, that just means more people might call. But the same core of people that try need help will still be among them. Out of the countless people in distress that might attempt or succeed in suicide, there is a subset that are on that edge where they're looking for that last bit of help, wanting to try a last hope before taking an irrevocable step. To be sure, by itself it is not nearly as effective as more personal and substantial interventions, but that is not it's purpose either. It is not there for treatment, it's there to help stabilize an emotional state enough to convince the person to seek those more substantial interventions.

kodah 6y ago

I have not used this number and sometimes when these kind of numbers are included in news pieces I have a big eye roll due to it looking like a rubber stamp. That said, I'm part of other groups that are certainly in on-going crises and I'd love to see our resources plastered everywhere, sincerity or not. At the very least it makes some people stop and think, some may donate, some may volunteer. That's worth my eye rolls.

zenexer 6y ago
It's one of those situations in which one organization does it and everyone else realizes there are no downsides. It's probably more sincere that we'd like to admit. Sure, there might be a liability aspect to it, but why wouldn't you plaster it all over, even if it's a rubber stamp? At worst, it has no effect. At best, you help people--people who are likely your customers. Dead customers don't pay bills.
alisonkisk 6y ago
My local highway has 100s of those metal gaurdrails and while I know they mean well, only 1 of them has ever been used.

dhaivat 6y ago

It might, even if one out of thousand who use it, I’d say it is worth it. A simple act of talking to someone is enough to walk someone off the metaphorical and literal ledge. That one call can lead to long term therapy and counseling. I know where you are coming from - it feels like a drive by post with a phone number.. but I really don’t have any other options to offer.

nom 6y ago

Having met several people taking calls on similar numbers (in European countries though) and also called a few times myself, I can tell you: They help more than you can imagine. Most callers are not suicidal, they just need someone empathetic they can talk to. 'Suicide hotline' is just one of the few keywords that are very effective, it catches people in their most vulnerable state right before it's too late for help. Type 'suicide' into google and they show you a number above all results. To everyone who doesn't have a support structure, please just search for 'suicide/depression/anxiety/* hotline' in your language. You most likely will find someone who will talk to you for an hour at 4am. Don't feel bad about it, you are not bothering anyone, they often do it voluntarily and just want to help others.

tw25532050 6y ago

It might help folks that can be helped by talking to someone. For someone like me, it would only make me feel bad, like I'm burdening someone else with the knowledge that I'm going to end my life; I know they won't be able to "talk me out of it". I have no friends, no family, nor any coworkers since July. No one will notice me being dead then any more than they notice me being absent now. When the money runs out, I have the nitrogen tank ready to go. Life isn't for everyone.

ip26 6y ago
You need some kind of lonely together COVID pod. Other people in the same circumstances. As long as your circle of contact is a closed loop, the exposure is not a big deal (same as with a family quarantined together). You might not have a lot of shared interests or whatever, but there are countless others suffering exactly like you- in this, you are not alone. People feel a little better being lonely together. And you know, two key ingredients to friendship are simply shared hardship & routine interaction. P.S. Ever consider volunteering with Big Brothers Big Sisters?
smeej 6y ago
For some of us, it's not about changing your mind. You're right--life isn't for everyone. Death comes for everyone, one way or another, at some point. Normally we don't pick when, but maybe you're right and this is how it comes for you. That's not up to me. If you don't want to go through it alone, though, you don't have to. We could look that mystery in its face together. See what's there. I'm not expecting to go through it myself yet, but I'd stand there with you while you do. I'm not any kind of counselor. I'm a longtime lurker who just made an account to say your confrontation with and even path through your own death isn't a burden for everyone. If you want to talk with someone about it, that option is available to you.
- tw25532050 6y ago
  I appreciate the offer. For me there's no great mystery; I die every night, and wake up every morning with that dead guy's memories. Life takes effort, and keeping that cycle going just hasn't been worth the effort for a long time. I made the decision months ago. I think there are a lot of people who keep putting in the effort only to avoid imposing suffering on their loved ones and others. So, in a way I'm lucky in my loneliness: I'm free to be selfish.

throwawayafgxpm 6y ago

'Golden Phone' by Micachu & The Shapes. The Golden Phone is the yellow-painted suicide hotline phone found on bridges. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TRkZpFgJcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TRkZpFgJcI (it's upbeat)

throwawayafgxpm 6y ago
One other. Nice for the lonely tonight. Unsettling but still beautiful, I think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkICkf8e1GA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkICkf8e1GA

watwut 6y ago

Afaik, number of suicides went down and number of calls went up when they first time started to put that thing under articles about suicide.