4 ms·

Regain what freedoms, exactly? The freedom to be undercut in the labour market and priced out of the housing market by uncontrolled immigration from other EU c

Regain what freedoms, exactly? The freedom to be undercut in the labour market and priced out of the housing market by uncontrolled immigration from other EU countries?

reeestandard 6y ago
Well it's nice you aren't just blaming the poor immigrants but the rich ones also. Very egalitarian. Neither of which are the main sources of our problems.
imtringued 6y ago
Is this supposed to be some kind of joke? Undercutting by other European nations? The GDP per capita of the EU (37k€) is barely below the GDP per capita of the UK ($44k). Even the typical "boogeyman" countries like Poland have a GDP per capita of $33k. The UK also has a massive "geographic advantage" when it comes to avoiding refugees. The vast majority of refugees do not arrive in the UK first which means the UK can often send them back to Italy or Greece. Seriously, this is just a textbook example of places with little immigration having more xenophobia simply because of lack of experience. People are scared of the unknown and that's all there is. If I was worried about economic undercutting I would be worried about China and other Asian countries because they not only have the advantage in numbers, China is nowadays the go to place for manufacturing even for high quality products. The key aspect is that the quality control is managed by first world economies. For some reason the Chinese are really terrible at creating medium/premium quality brands.
- djmobley 6y ago
  You’re using PPP-adjusted figures which distort the picture. The latest wave of migration to the UK has been from Romania, not Poland. I’m not talking about refugees, I’m talking about economic migrants, both skilled and unskilled. In any event, please could you explain to me how adding approx. 3.5m EU nationals to the UK benefits young people? Consider the challenges faced by young people in the UK today, including widespread unemployment and underemployment, and a chronic housing shortage where the supply of housing is virtually fixed.
  - toyg 6y ago
    There are plenty of brownfields in England. The housing supply can be grown at will. If it isn't, it's because large (English) landowners and other (English) landlords are effectively controlling the English Parliament - like it's always been since its formation, really, bar a short interlude after WWII.
    - djmobley 6y ago
      Of course, how could I forget the brownfield sites. I’ll let all the young people know there isn’t a housing crisis after all, and seeing as the millions of EU nationals residing in the UK don’t need housing, young people needn’t worry.
      - toyg 6y ago
        The housing crisis has nothing to do with us EU nationals, and all to do with your goddamn English Parliament we cannot even vote for.
        djmobley 6y ago
        It’s good to know EU nationals don’t need housing, so the millions residing in the UK aren’t adding any pressure whatsoever to our existing housing crisis.
        toyg 6y ago
        Not any more than in any EU country, no. And yes, the fact that a lot of voters don't really know what's going on (or suffer from cognitive dissonance, fostered by the terrible English tabloid press) is a large part of what's going on. But I'm sure things will improve dramatically from 1 January... /s
  - scotty79 6y ago
    > underemployment I'm sure that without large quantities of foreign workers willing to do the most menial jobs specifically this situation will immediately improve. /s
- traceddd 6y ago
  Even that’s changing. For example, DJI produces very nice and polished products.
rossjudson 6y ago
I'm a bit curious about how you're being undercut in the labor market and simultaneously being priced out of the housing market. You seem to be implying that uncontrolled immigrants are earning less money, but buying more expensive homes.
- djmobley 6y ago
  EU nationals come to the UK, and they participate in both the labour and housing markets. A small number act to stimulate supply in those markets (e.g. entrepreneurs setting up businesses, or construction workers building the pitiful number of new homes that get built each year), but the vast majority simply add to the demand-side, driving down wages and increasing rents and property prices. This applies to both skilled and unskilled migrants. The former often come with savings and significant professional experience. Great for businesses, rubbish for our young people.

Regain what freedoms, exactly? The freedom to be undercut in the labour market and priced out of the housing market by uncontrolled immigration from other EU countries?

reeestandard 6y ago

Well it's nice you aren't just blaming the poor immigrants but the rich ones also. Very egalitarian. Neither of which are the main sources of our problems.

imtringued 6y ago

Is this supposed to be some kind of joke? Undercutting by other European nations? The GDP per capita of the EU (37k€) is barely below the GDP per capita of the UK ($44k). Even the typical "boogeyman" countries like Poland have a GDP per capita of $33k. The UK also has a massive "geographic advantage" when it comes to avoiding refugees. The vast majority of refugees do not arrive in the UK first which means the UK can often send them back to Italy or Greece. Seriously, this is just a textbook example of places with little immigration having more xenophobia simply because of lack of experience. People are scared of the unknown and that's all there is. If I was worried about economic undercutting I would be worried about China and other Asian countries because they not only have the advantage in numbers, China is nowadays the go to place for manufacturing even for high quality products. The key aspect is that the quality control is managed by first world economies. For some reason the Chinese are really terrible at creating medium/premium quality brands.

djmobley 6y ago
You’re using PPP-adjusted figures which distort the picture. The latest wave of migration to the UK has been from Romania, not Poland. I’m not talking about refugees, I’m talking about economic migrants, both skilled and unskilled. In any event, please could you explain to me how adding approx. 3.5m EU nationals to the UK benefits young people? Consider the challenges faced by young people in the UK today, including widespread unemployment and underemployment, and a chronic housing shortage where the supply of housing is virtually fixed.
- toyg 6y ago
  There are plenty of brownfields in England. The housing supply can be grown at will. If it isn't, it's because large (English) landowners and other (English) landlords are effectively controlling the English Parliament - like it's always been since its formation, really, bar a short interlude after WWII.
  - djmobley 6y ago
    Of course, how could I forget the brownfield sites. I’ll let all the young people know there isn’t a housing crisis after all, and seeing as the millions of EU nationals residing in the UK don’t need housing, young people needn’t worry.
    - toyg 6y ago
      The housing crisis has nothing to do with us EU nationals, and all to do with your goddamn English Parliament we cannot even vote for.
      - djmobley 6y ago
        It’s good to know EU nationals don’t need housing, so the millions residing in the UK aren’t adding any pressure whatsoever to our existing housing crisis.
        toyg 6y ago
        Not any more than in any EU country, no. And yes, the fact that a lot of voters don't really know what's going on (or suffer from cognitive dissonance, fostered by the terrible English tabloid press) is a large part of what's going on. But I'm sure things will improve dramatically from 1 January... /s
- scotty79 6y ago
  > underemployment I'm sure that without large quantities of foreign workers willing to do the most menial jobs specifically this situation will immediately improve. /s
traceddd 6y ago
Even that’s changing. For example, DJI produces very nice and polished products.

rossjudson 6y ago

I'm a bit curious about how you're being undercut in the labor market and simultaneously being priced out of the housing market. You seem to be implying that uncontrolled immigrants are earning less money, but buying more expensive homes.

djmobley 6y ago
EU nationals come to the UK, and they participate in both the labour and housing markets. A small number act to stimulate supply in those markets (e.g. entrepreneurs setting up businesses, or construction workers building the pitiful number of new homes that get built each year), but the vast majority simply add to the demand-side, driving down wages and increasing rents and property prices. This applies to both skilled and unskilled migrants. The former often come with savings and significant professional experience. Great for businesses, rubbish for our young people.