6 ms·

OP here, happy to answer any questions. I know Apple gets a lot of well-deserved flack, but for a small-time dev like me, them taking a 15% cut makes things a l

by s3cur3 6y ago

OP here, happy to answer any questions. I know Apple gets a lot of well-deserved flack, but for a small-time dev like me, them taking a 15% cut makes things a lot simpler for me.

RyJones 6y ago
I bought it, I'll give it a whirl. I've been importing my photos from Flickr, which has led to thousands of duplicates.
- s3cur3 6y ago
  Sweet! Give me a shout if you run into issues. :)
sieabahlpark 6y ago
That's precisely the point though. It works for small devs but as you grow that 15% is enough to pay a team to build your own app store. That's the problem with the model.
abhinav22 6y ago
I was thinking about this as well. When you are small, it’s definitely a lifesaver. When you get big, then you have to figure it out. But when you are small, you have enough problems to solve to bring a quality product to market, this is one headache you can happily avoid.
offtop5 6y ago
I completely agree with your direction, having Apple take the responsibility to safeguard user data makes things much easier. For better or worse Apple can do no wrong and the eyes of its customers, so even if they did somehow get hacked, you wouldn't have hundreds of angry emails headed your way. I personally really do love the walled garden of owning a Mac, when I'm working on a song or music video, I just want it to work using final cut and logic. If I really feel like compiling the Linux kernel from scratch, I have a PC for that
fartcannon 6y ago
Please don't do this. You're short term gain is the worlds long term loss.
- quesera 6y ago
  Are you arguing for a zero-middleman retail relationship? Or just anti-Apple?
  - Mindwipe 6y ago
    I imagine it's anti-middleman when the middleman has the keys to all software operating on the OS and hardware.
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    It's about choice and loss of control / ownership of our device. Apple app store can exist. But they absolutely shouldn't FORCE us developers and users to use it.
    - zapzupnz 6y ago
      Just as well nobody's forced to use it, then.
- zapzupnz 6y ago
  It's OP's side project; its their decision as to how they choose to spend their time and energy, what trade-offs are involved with each option, and what's most important to them. OP owes the world, outside of their paying customers, nothing.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  Don't let the downvotes discourage you from speaking up again on this. OP is indeed being very shortsighted as a developer by supporting the app store.
  - fartcannon 6y ago
ummonk 6y ago
On the consumer side I also would prefer 15% higher pricing than to have to deal with various different payment forms as well as the difficulty of keeping track of and canceling various subscriptions.
- thewebcount 6y ago
  Yeah, same here. And even when it's a processor I know like Stripe, Square, or Shopify, I don't really trust those companies very much. I've gotten spam, other people's receipts, etc. from them and their tech support is horrible for the consumer. And if they aren't a name I know like one of the above, I'm really leery of giving them my email and credit card info!
  - cuddlybacon 6y ago
    Same here. The last time I bought software that wasn't thru a well known store or processor I ended up with some fraudulent purchases on my next credit card bill[0]. Since then, I'll never do that again. [0] - Thankfully my bank handled this without issue.
  - YeBanKo 6y ago
    While I am skeptical of cryptocurrencies, more and more often I catch myself thinking: I wish this seller just accepted bitcoin or something. I want to make a transaction and be done with it. I don’t want my email and credit card number end up anywhere long term. There was a lunch place near my work that I frequented. They used Square POS terminal, once I noticed that it somehow linked my email to my credit card, I started using cash to pay. Cash is horribly inconvenient and gross to handle, but at least once you paid you don’t need to worry about it. You can’t be hit with some unexpected charges, wait to check the transaction when posted, no possibility of data leak, no privacy concerns, etc.
    - dylan604 6y ago
      Wasn't ApplePay supposed to address this? Each transaction creates a one-time-use number which is the only number the seller receives. It would no longer be valid if evilHacker(TM) tries to use that number for a fraudulent charge later.
blunte 6y ago
Are you not concerned with Apple potentially delisting you or rejecting a future update due to some reason which may or may not be clear? I suppose you can always go back to direct if that happens, but people who bought via App Store will be out of luck for updates then.
- s3cur3 6y ago
  Eh, I toe the line as far as policy is concerned. I'm not worried, personally.
- Razengan 6y ago
  > but people who bought via App Store will be out of luck for updates then. Apps like Coda have offered mechanisms for people to update from the App Store version to a non-Store version for free, by looking for a Store downloaded .app, so it's not impossible.
ben509 6y ago
How does the no paid upgrade issue affect you?
- s3cur3 6y ago
  At some point I could imagine going subscription/IAP for new major features, and just grandfathering in all the people who bought it previously. But in my specific case, the app is a side project that honestly needs a lot of love, and it’s hard for me to imagine hitting up existing users for more money.
smoldesu 6y ago
I'm really sorry to hear you've been forced into this situation. I seldom use MacOS these days, but when I do, buying an app from the App Store is the one thing I'm least likely to do. I hope that one day it becomes viable to distribute your app through a less centralized platform.
- zapzupnz 6y ago
  OP hasn't been forced into anything; as they describe in their post, this is a choice that they've made. I don't know who you think you're convincing by speaking so sanctimoniously about someone else's choices, as though they're incapable of taking the right decision without having asked you first or that they must've been forced into it, but it certainly won't be OP or me.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  Well said. As I commented elsewhere Apple with its app store currently acts like a corrupt-middle-man-bureaucrat because it forces itself between the developer and the seller and demands a bribe from both for the "privilege" to develop / use an app. Limiting our choice means less profit for the developer, higher price for the user and a violation of your privacy rights by Apple (apart from profiteering).
webmobdev 6y ago
Just a feedback - As a developer, you are only encouraging Apple to gauge more money from developers like you by selling on App store, instead of boycotting it. Don't add value to the app store by making your app available on it. I never buy anything from the App Store. I prefer to buy directly from the seller. If you are selling exclusively only through the Apple app store, you are not only going to lose customers but also sabotaging yourself. It's incredibly shortsighted. I don't know why anyone even bothers with the app store on the macOS (or other platforms). We have been doing fine without it on the desktop for decades now, and suddenly every developer is supposed to drink the kool-aid that PAYING corporates for the privilege of adding value to that platform by developing and distributing your wares on that platform is supposed to be a GREAT thing?
- EricE 6y ago
  The Mac App store is convenient. People pay for convenience all the time. Apple thrives on convenience - the overall experience. You also completely disregarded the point he made that for him the value Apple brings now that they have discounted their fee to 15% for small developers far outweighs the 15% they charge. Paying for convenience. It's the key to their success and also the thing that many geeks seem to discount the most (just like you completely glossed over); hence the continual geek mystification of how Apple can be so successful. I sincerely doubt he's going to loose that many sales by being Mac app store exclusive. These days for the vast majority of apps I'm interested in I'm more than willing to buy them from the Mac App store. The only time I avoid the app store is if the sandboxing restrictions limit the app I want in some way; and there are very few apps that fall into that category - mostly utility or audio apps. So I buy them outside the store - which is a PITA to track all the relevant bits (payments, updates, keys, etc.). 1Password helps significantly with the license/payment tracking and thankfully more Mac developers are adding 1 click import of all your license details into password managers like 1Password - but it's still more stuff to track that you don't have to do when using the app store.
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    > You also completely disregarded the point he made that for him the value Apple brings now that they have discounted their fee to 15% for small developers far outweighs the 15% they charge. I pointed out that this is extremely short-sighted for developers. App Store on macOS doesn't have the kind of stranglehold it does on macOS like the ios platform. The more App store gains control, and the more developers are forced to distribute their apps on the platform, the more you give leverage to Apple to extort more money out of you. All the current lawsuits against the app store are indicative of this. We developers would be fools to ignore that.

by s3cur3 6y ago

OP here, happy to answer any questions. I know Apple gets a lot of well-deserved flack, but for a small-time dev like me, them taking a 15% cut makes things a lot simpler for me.

RyJones 6y ago

I bought it, I'll give it a whirl. I've been importing my photos from Flickr, which has led to thousands of duplicates.

s3cur3 6y ago
Sweet! Give me a shout if you run into issues. :)

sieabahlpark 6y ago

That's precisely the point though. It works for small devs but as you grow that 15% is enough to pay a team to build your own app store. That's the problem with the model.

abhinav22 6y ago

I was thinking about this as well. When you are small, it’s definitely a lifesaver. When you get big, then you have to figure it out. But when you are small, you have enough problems to solve to bring a quality product to market, this is one headache you can happily avoid.

offtop5 6y ago

I completely agree with your direction, having Apple take the responsibility to safeguard user data makes things much easier. For better or worse Apple can do no wrong and the eyes of its customers, so even if they did somehow get hacked, you wouldn't have hundreds of angry emails headed your way. I personally really do love the walled garden of owning a Mac, when I'm working on a song or music video, I just want it to work using final cut and logic. If I really feel like compiling the Linux kernel from scratch, I have a PC for that

fartcannon 6y ago

Please don't do this. You're short term gain is the worlds long term loss.

quesera 6y ago
Are you arguing for a zero-middleman retail relationship? Or just anti-Apple?
- Mindwipe 6y ago
  I imagine it's anti-middleman when the middleman has the keys to all software operating on the OS and hardware.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  It's about choice and loss of control / ownership of our device. Apple app store can exist. But they absolutely shouldn't FORCE us developers and users to use it.
  - zapzupnz 6y ago
    Just as well nobody's forced to use it, then.
zapzupnz 6y ago
It's OP's side project; its their decision as to how they choose to spend their time and energy, what trade-offs are involved with each option, and what's most important to them. OP owes the world, outside of their paying customers, nothing.
webmobdev 6y ago
Don't let the downvotes discourage you from speaking up again on this. OP is indeed being very shortsighted as a developer by supporting the app store.
- fartcannon 6y ago

ummonk 6y ago

On the consumer side I also would prefer 15% higher pricing than to have to deal with various different payment forms as well as the difficulty of keeping track of and canceling various subscriptions.

thewebcount 6y ago
Yeah, same here. And even when it's a processor I know like Stripe, Square, or Shopify, I don't really trust those companies very much. I've gotten spam, other people's receipts, etc. from them and their tech support is horrible for the consumer. And if they aren't a name I know like one of the above, I'm really leery of giving them my email and credit card info!
- cuddlybacon 6y ago
  Same here. The last time I bought software that wasn't thru a well known store or processor I ended up with some fraudulent purchases on my next credit card bill[0]. Since then, I'll never do that again. [0] - Thankfully my bank handled this without issue.
- YeBanKo 6y ago
  While I am skeptical of cryptocurrencies, more and more often I catch myself thinking: I wish this seller just accepted bitcoin or something. I want to make a transaction and be done with it. I don’t want my email and credit card number end up anywhere long term. There was a lunch place near my work that I frequented. They used Square POS terminal, once I noticed that it somehow linked my email to my credit card, I started using cash to pay. Cash is horribly inconvenient and gross to handle, but at least once you paid you don’t need to worry about it. You can’t be hit with some unexpected charges, wait to check the transaction when posted, no possibility of data leak, no privacy concerns, etc.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    Wasn't ApplePay supposed to address this? Each transaction creates a one-time-use number which is the only number the seller receives. It would no longer be valid if evilHacker(TM) tries to use that number for a fraudulent charge later.

blunte 6y ago

Are you not concerned with Apple potentially delisting you or rejecting a future update due to some reason which may or may not be clear? I suppose you can always go back to direct if that happens, but people who bought via App Store will be out of luck for updates then.

s3cur3 6y ago
Eh, I toe the line as far as policy is concerned. I'm not worried, personally.
Razengan 6y ago
> but people who bought via App Store will be out of luck for updates then. Apps like Coda have offered mechanisms for people to update from the App Store version to a non-Store version for free, by looking for a Store downloaded .app, so it's not impossible.

ben509 6y ago

How does the no paid upgrade issue affect you?

s3cur3 6y ago
At some point I could imagine going subscription/IAP for new major features, and just grandfathering in all the people who bought it previously. But in my specific case, the app is a side project that honestly needs a lot of love, and it’s hard for me to imagine hitting up existing users for more money.

smoldesu 6y ago

I'm really sorry to hear you've been forced into this situation. I seldom use MacOS these days, but when I do, buying an app from the App Store is the one thing I'm least likely to do. I hope that one day it becomes viable to distribute your app through a less centralized platform.

zapzupnz 6y ago
OP hasn't been forced into anything; as they describe in their post, this is a choice that they've made. I don't know who you think you're convincing by speaking so sanctimoniously about someone else's choices, as though they're incapable of taking the right decision without having asked you first or that they must've been forced into it, but it certainly won't be OP or me.
webmobdev 6y ago
Well said. As I commented elsewhere Apple with its app store currently acts like a corrupt-middle-man-bureaucrat because it forces itself between the developer and the seller and demands a bribe from both for the "privilege" to develop / use an app. Limiting our choice means less profit for the developer, higher price for the user and a violation of your privacy rights by Apple (apart from profiteering).

webmobdev 6y ago

Just a feedback - As a developer, you are only encouraging Apple to gauge more money from developers like you by selling on App store, instead of boycotting it. Don't add value to the app store by making your app available on it. I never buy anything from the App Store. I prefer to buy directly from the seller. If you are selling exclusively only through the Apple app store, you are not only going to lose customers but also sabotaging yourself. It's incredibly shortsighted. I don't know why anyone even bothers with the app store on the macOS (or other platforms). We have been doing fine without it on the desktop for decades now, and suddenly every developer is supposed to drink the kool-aid that PAYING corporates for the privilege of adding value to that platform by developing and distributing your wares on that platform is supposed to be a GREAT thing?

EricE 6y ago
The Mac App store is convenient. People pay for convenience all the time. Apple thrives on convenience - the overall experience. You also completely disregarded the point he made that for him the value Apple brings now that they have discounted their fee to 15% for small developers far outweighs the 15% they charge. Paying for convenience. It's the key to their success and also the thing that many geeks seem to discount the most (just like you completely glossed over); hence the continual geek mystification of how Apple can be so successful. I sincerely doubt he's going to loose that many sales by being Mac app store exclusive. These days for the vast majority of apps I'm interested in I'm more than willing to buy them from the Mac App store. The only time I avoid the app store is if the sandboxing restrictions limit the app I want in some way; and there are very few apps that fall into that category - mostly utility or audio apps. So I buy them outside the store - which is a PITA to track all the relevant bits (payments, updates, keys, etc.). 1Password helps significantly with the license/payment tracking and thankfully more Mac developers are adding 1 click import of all your license details into password managers like 1Password - but it's still more stuff to track that you don't have to do when using the app store.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  > You also completely disregarded the point he made that for him the value Apple brings now that they have discounted their fee to 15% for small developers far outweighs the 15% they charge. I pointed out that this is extremely short-sighted for developers. App Store on macOS doesn't have the kind of stranglehold it does on macOS like the ios platform. The more App store gains control, and the more developers are forced to distribute their apps on the platform, the more you give leverage to Apple to extort more money out of you. All the current lawsuits against the app store are indicative of this. We developers would be fools to ignore that.