5 ms·

The weaker version of this argument which is less likely to be downvoted is, "A huge fraction of the pit bulls which are currently in shelters are not compatib

The weaker version of this argument which is less likely to be downvoted is, "A huge fraction of the pit bulls which are currently in shelters are not compatible with most homes who want to adopt dogs" Pit bulls, whether or not they are inherently aggressive (and let's be honest, you get more aggressive pit bulls than Golden Retrievers), can do a HUGE amount of damage when they are. Adopting a dog which can't be trusted around kids, much less other dogs (which is REALLY common for pets which end up in shelters), is simply a non-starter for many families, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect otherwise.

michaelmrose 6y ago
Do you have any data to back up inherent breed based aggression by pit bulls?
- sn_master 6y ago
  https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2019.php https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2019... Says Pit Bulls are responsible for 69% of the fatalities (not just of all attacks).
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    This is a terrible source. Please see. https://adbadog.com/truth-behind-dogsbite-org/ https://adbadog.com/truth-behind-dogsbite-org/ Personally I prefer the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Dog Breeders Association to a single biased source that is basically the qanon of breed specific legislation. The only reason that I have slightly more respect for dogsbite is at least dogs actually have teeth whereas the pizza place in fact did not have a basement.
    - denimnerd42 6y ago
      You link a pitbull lobbying group as defense? There are plenty of pit bull lobbies. Most of them come from no-kill background because pitbulls are the most common dogs in shelters. There is no national register for dog bites. You can see how coronavirus tracking goes to show how much of a feat that would be. All you can do is track evidence in newspapers and in online media. Interview ER docs, plastic surgeons, etc.
      - michaelmrose 6y ago
        Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association Co-occurrence of potentially preventable factors in 256 dog bite–related fatalities in the United States (2000–2009) Objective—To examine potentially preventable factors in human dog bite–related fatalities (DBRFs) on the basis of data from sources that were more complete, verifiable, and accurate than media reports used in previous studies. Design—Prospective case series. Sample—256 DBRFs occurring in the United States from 2000 to 2009. Procedures—DBRFs were identified from media reports and detailed histories were compiled on the basis of reports from homicide detectives, animal control reports, and interviews with investigators for coding and descriptive analysis. Results—Major co-occurrence factors for the 256 DBRFs included Absence of an able-bodied person to intervene (n = 223 [87.1%]) Incidental or no familiar relationship of victims with dogs (218 [85.2%]) Owner failure to neuter dogs (216 [84.4%]) Compromised ability of victims to interact appropriately with dogs (198 [77.4%]) Dogs kept isolated from regular positive human interactions versus family dogs (195 [76.2%]) Owners’ prior mismanagement of dogs (96 [37.5%]) Owners’ history of abuse or neglect of dogs (54 [21.1%]) Four or more of these factors co-occurred in 206 (80.5%) deaths. For 401 dogs described in various media accounts, reported breed differed for 124 (30.9%); for 346 dogs with both media and animal control breed reports, breed differed for 139 (40.2%). Valid breed determination was possible for only 45 (17.6%) DBRFs; 20 breeds, including 2 known mixes, were identified. Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Most dog bite–related fatalities were characterized by coincident, preventable factors; breed was not one of these. Study results supported previous recommendations for multifactorial approaches, instead of single-factor solutions such as breed-specific legislation, for dog bite prevention. The source is the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association which is more reliable than one whack job living out her fantasy of being paid real money to pursue an anti pit bull crusade which began with a lie. She was herself the victim of a dog bite which she has related several times giving different stories each time adding theatrics over time. Eventually the dog walker which had the dog on a leash lost control of her dangerous animal which dragged her, shook her, and tried to rip her throat out. The circumstances, aftermath, injuries, and other party, and even her original statement contradict this. What actually happened is that while jogging she ran up behind the dog walker on a very narrow walk alongside a wall without giving any verbal indication of her intentions. When she tried to go around the dog and walker she would have passed within inches of the dog startling it. The dog which had no history of aggression bit the woman on the arm twice bite and release not bite and shake, not drag through the grass, no attempted bite to the neck. She sustained soft tissue damage to the arm fell and broke her arm in the fall. She sued the owners home insurance collecting a substantial settlement for her own incompetence and insisting on the prompt killing of the family pet. She then went on to make a career out of being a professional victim and duping people like yourself. She is a terrible human being and it would be great if you stopped spreading canine qanon around here and elsewhere.
  - mikestew 6y ago
    That source can say anything it wants, and obviously people who want to believe their message will believe it. Those that prefer their sources to not have a singular ax to grind, such as the source you posted, will skip that one. No, more YouTube links won't help, either.
    - sn_master 6y ago
      Typical SJW logic... If I don't provide a source (because apparently qualified PhD expert interviews on national TV aren't a "source"), you mock me for not having provided one. When I provide a written one which has citations from government agencies and hospitals, you just say "That source can say anything it wants". Why don't you get a pit bull yourself, preferably one that has been in a half dozen homes and gotten back to the shelter because it killed several pets and injured young children, and then tell me how it feels like, if you don't end up on a YouTube video yourself first, that is.
  - perardi 6y ago
    Define a “pit bull”. Go right ahead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull
    - etempleton 6y ago
      One of the reasons “Pit Bulls” are attributed for so many attacks is because it is not a breed and on police reports when it is a mixed breed that looks vaguely like a terrier breed they assign “pitbull” because it is not like they are going to do a DNA test to determine breed. It is also true that many people who want a tough looking “pitbull” are terrible owners who want their dog to attack and to be aggressive as a form of personal and home defense and raise them accordingly.
      - denimnerd42 6y ago
        On the other hand there are plenty of examples of pitbull dogs killing or mauling the family's cat, dog, child, or grandparent completely randomly with no prior warning. I didn't really know much about pits or have any opinion until one of my buddies adopted one and it killed his two cats with him trying to pry its mouth open. I started to look into the issue after that.
        hn_user82179 6y ago
        "With no prior warning" is a tough one. Pit Bull Terriers and other bully-type dogs are known to have high prey drives, and you can't really be surprised if one goes after a cat or small dog. I'm pretty tired of both the people who blame the dogs for everything and the people who are trying to convince the world that bully breed dogs are great beginner- or family-friendly pets. Certain dogs have certain traits that you can't train out of them. I love hamsters and rabbits, but I'm not ever going to get one as a pet because my rat terrier has an extremely high prey drive. It's just stupid to put any animal in that situation.
        etempleton 6y ago
        You must be able to control the dog you adopt. Not all dogs are good for every person. Your experience raising dogs, space available, physical strength, and your time should all be considered. I have heard a good measure for physical strength required is that you should be able to carry any fully grown dog you own. If you can’t pick them up and carry them a short distance you probably do not have the physical stength to handle them.
sn_master 6y ago
And pitbulls are stronger than the average human adult. Many of those videos show strong adults, sometimes multiple of them, and they can't overtake a single angry pitbull even when using blunt objects to hit it. Multiple children get mauled and killed by pitbulls every single month in the US alone. From the reported data, pitbulls are statistically more dangerous than any other breed. An angry small dog can only do so much harm before getting a single kick, vs a pitbull. That's why the UK banned them.
- h2odragon 6y ago
  Pitbulls are "especially bad" in a fight because they don't react to pain the way most dogs do (often, it does vary in individual dogs). They know something hurts but it's not a reason to stop doing what they wanted. The ones I've known often overcompensated for that, once they figure it out in puppyhood, and were especially gentle and considerate. I had a bluetick / border collie hound that had the same oblivious reaction to pain; she got tangled in an electric fence once and chewed the wire through before i realized what was happening. Then went on to catch her rabbit.

michaelmrose 6y ago

Do you have any data to back up inherent breed based aggression by pit bulls?

sn_master 6y ago
https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2019.php https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2019... Says Pit Bulls are responsible for 69% of the fatalities (not just of all attacks).
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  This is a terrible source. Please see. https://adbadog.com/truth-behind-dogsbite-org/ https://adbadog.com/truth-behind-dogsbite-org/ Personally I prefer the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Dog Breeders Association to a single biased source that is basically the qanon of breed specific legislation. The only reason that I have slightly more respect for dogsbite is at least dogs actually have teeth whereas the pizza place in fact did not have a basement.
  - denimnerd42 6y ago
    You link a pitbull lobbying group as defense? There are plenty of pit bull lobbies. Most of them come from no-kill background because pitbulls are the most common dogs in shelters. There is no national register for dog bites. You can see how coronavirus tracking goes to show how much of a feat that would be. All you can do is track evidence in newspapers and in online media. Interview ER docs, plastic surgeons, etc.
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association Co-occurrence of potentially preventable factors in 256 dog bite–related fatalities in the United States (2000–2009) Objective—To examine potentially preventable factors in human dog bite–related fatalities (DBRFs) on the basis of data from sources that were more complete, verifiable, and accurate than media reports used in previous studies. Design—Prospective case series. Sample—256 DBRFs occurring in the United States from 2000 to 2009. Procedures—DBRFs were identified from media reports and detailed histories were compiled on the basis of reports from homicide detectives, animal control reports, and interviews with investigators for coding and descriptive analysis. Results—Major co-occurrence factors for the 256 DBRFs included Absence of an able-bodied person to intervene (n = 223 [87.1%]) Incidental or no familiar relationship of victims with dogs (218 [85.2%]) Owner failure to neuter dogs (216 [84.4%]) Compromised ability of victims to interact appropriately with dogs (198 [77.4%]) Dogs kept isolated from regular positive human interactions versus family dogs (195 [76.2%]) Owners’ prior mismanagement of dogs (96 [37.5%]) Owners’ history of abuse or neglect of dogs (54 [21.1%]) Four or more of these factors co-occurred in 206 (80.5%) deaths. For 401 dogs described in various media accounts, reported breed differed for 124 (30.9%); for 346 dogs with both media and animal control breed reports, breed differed for 139 (40.2%). Valid breed determination was possible for only 45 (17.6%) DBRFs; 20 breeds, including 2 known mixes, were identified. Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Most dog bite–related fatalities were characterized by coincident, preventable factors; breed was not one of these. Study results supported previous recommendations for multifactorial approaches, instead of single-factor solutions such as breed-specific legislation, for dog bite prevention. The source is the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association which is more reliable than one whack job living out her fantasy of being paid real money to pursue an anti pit bull crusade which began with a lie. She was herself the victim of a dog bite which she has related several times giving different stories each time adding theatrics over time. Eventually the dog walker which had the dog on a leash lost control of her dangerous animal which dragged her, shook her, and tried to rip her throat out. The circumstances, aftermath, injuries, and other party, and even her original statement contradict this. What actually happened is that while jogging she ran up behind the dog walker on a very narrow walk alongside a wall without giving any verbal indication of her intentions. When she tried to go around the dog and walker she would have passed within inches of the dog startling it. The dog which had no history of aggression bit the woman on the arm twice bite and release not bite and shake, not drag through the grass, no attempted bite to the neck. She sustained soft tissue damage to the arm fell and broke her arm in the fall. She sued the owners home insurance collecting a substantial settlement for her own incompetence and insisting on the prompt killing of the family pet. She then went on to make a career out of being a professional victim and duping people like yourself. She is a terrible human being and it would be great if you stopped spreading canine qanon around here and elsewhere.
- mikestew 6y ago
  That source can say anything it wants, and obviously people who want to believe their message will believe it. Those that prefer their sources to not have a singular ax to grind, such as the source you posted, will skip that one. No, more YouTube links won't help, either.
  - sn_master 6y ago
    Typical SJW logic... If I don't provide a source (because apparently qualified PhD expert interviews on national TV aren't a "source"), you mock me for not having provided one. When I provide a written one which has citations from government agencies and hospitals, you just say "That source can say anything it wants". Why don't you get a pit bull yourself, preferably one that has been in a half dozen homes and gotten back to the shelter because it killed several pets and injured young children, and then tell me how it feels like, if you don't end up on a YouTube video yourself first, that is.
- perardi 6y ago
  Define a “pit bull”. Go right ahead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull
  - etempleton 6y ago
    One of the reasons “Pit Bulls” are attributed for so many attacks is because it is not a breed and on police reports when it is a mixed breed that looks vaguely like a terrier breed they assign “pitbull” because it is not like they are going to do a DNA test to determine breed. It is also true that many people who want a tough looking “pitbull” are terrible owners who want their dog to attack and to be aggressive as a form of personal and home defense and raise them accordingly.
    - denimnerd42 6y ago
      On the other hand there are plenty of examples of pitbull dogs killing or mauling the family's cat, dog, child, or grandparent completely randomly with no prior warning. I didn't really know much about pits or have any opinion until one of my buddies adopted one and it killed his two cats with him trying to pry its mouth open. I started to look into the issue after that.
      - hn_user82179 6y ago
        "With no prior warning" is a tough one. Pit Bull Terriers and other bully-type dogs are known to have high prey drives, and you can't really be surprised if one goes after a cat or small dog. I'm pretty tired of both the people who blame the dogs for everything and the people who are trying to convince the world that bully breed dogs are great beginner- or family-friendly pets. Certain dogs have certain traits that you can't train out of them. I love hamsters and rabbits, but I'm not ever going to get one as a pet because my rat terrier has an extremely high prey drive. It's just stupid to put any animal in that situation.
        etempleton 6y ago
        You must be able to control the dog you adopt. Not all dogs are good for every person. Your experience raising dogs, space available, physical strength, and your time should all be considered. I have heard a good measure for physical strength required is that you should be able to carry any fully grown dog you own. If you can’t pick them up and carry them a short distance you probably do not have the physical stength to handle them.

sn_master 6y ago

And pitbulls are stronger than the average human adult. Many of those videos show strong adults, sometimes multiple of them, and they can't overtake a single angry pitbull even when using blunt objects to hit it. Multiple children get mauled and killed by pitbulls every single month in the US alone. From the reported data, pitbulls are statistically more dangerous than any other breed. An angry small dog can only do so much harm before getting a single kick, vs a pitbull. That's why the UK banned them.

h2odragon 6y ago
Pitbulls are "especially bad" in a fight because they don't react to pain the way most dogs do (often, it does vary in individual dogs). They know something hurts but it's not a reason to stop doing what they wanted. The ones I've known often overcompensated for that, once they figure it out in puppyhood, and were especially gentle and considerate. I had a bluetick / border collie hound that had the same oblivious reaction to pain; she got tangled in an electric fence once and chewed the wire through before i realized what was happening. Then went on to catch her rabbit.