8 ms·

Murders of Journalists Doubled in 2020

99 points by laurex 6y ago

nwah1 6y ago
It is amazing that after the massive negative repercussions for Saudi Arabia after their murder of Khashoggi, that the nations of the world somehow decided that such murder is more worthwhile than before. Iran just murdered Roohollah Zam the other week.
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  Regarding Khashoggi, I haven't been able to find an actual estimate of the costs of sanctions for Saudi Arabia so it is difficult to really evaluation how massive these negative repercussions are - but they actually seem pretty trivial to me.
  - wrnr 6y ago
    Hard to put a price on reputation, but I suspect they have a harder time raising money for their Neom project
    - adventured 6y ago
      It rather smashed their attempt to economically open up Saudi Arabia to new forms of investment, at least for a decade. MBS had tried to set up a whirlwind effort to establish a 'new' Saudi Arabia and was spending a lot of money and effort to lure large investors to partner with. His 2018 tour of Silicon Valley, meeting with prominent tech players, wouldn't be possible post Khashoggi, those people stopped taking meetings with MBS afterward. Eventually the potentcy of that story will fade of course.
  - tpmx 6y ago
    It's telling how the SoftBank Vision Fund has been ridiculed way more for bad investments than its Silicon Valley funding targets (https://visionfund.com/portfolio https://visionfund.com/portfolio - this includes at least one prominent YC company which received its investment 3 months after the Khashoggi murder, btw) have been criticized for accepting Saudi blood money.
- RobertoG 6y ago
  What massive negative repercussions?
  - wave_function 6y ago
    I think the grandparent post was being sarcastic
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dfxm12 6y ago
“It has a ripple effect,” Mr. Maldonado, of Article 19, said. “It goes beyond just the discourse, which in itself has an inhibiting impact on the press.” Add this to the record breaking number of journalists arrested in the US this year [0], and it's plain to see that truth is at a premium. People on this site like to proselytize about freedom of speech, well this brazen attack on freedom of speech, where people are being held against their will or murdered, should weigh most heavily on our minds. 0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25432540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25432540
- vrperson 6y ago
  What makes you so sure that these people were arrested for telling the truth? What about telling the truth would be an offense worthy of arrest in the US? Assange and Manning come to mind, for leaking government secrets. But according to the article, most arrests happened in connection with Black Lives Matter protests. It seems equally plausible that more people than ever try to evade arrest by claiming they are journalists. Or journalist have less and less ethics when doing their jobs. Not saying that's the root cause, just that you can not simply assume all those people were arrested for telling "the truth". And how do people who bemoan that stand on the subject of censorship on social networks?
  - klyrs 6y ago
    > What makes you so sure that these people were arrested for telling the truth? > But according to the article, most arrests happened in connection with Black Lives Matter protests. Kinda answered your own question here. Journalists were arrested for being present at newsworthy events, recording the truth as it unfolded before them
    - meragrin_ 6y ago
      Most probably weren't even arrested. Just "detained" while detaining the group of protestors they were amongst.
      - deleted 6y ago
reactspa 6y ago
While we're on the topic, let's take a moment to remind ourselves that New York Times journalists are directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians (mostly women and children) in Iraq, Syria, Libya. Judith Miller won a Pulitzer for reporting that Iraq had "weapons of mass destruction". Also, here's a fun activity. Go to the NYT website, and search "nicholas kristof libya". He promoted US support of regime-change of Libya in several articles before the US decided to give air-cover to the rebels. Then the entire country fell apart and millions of refugees went elsewhere (including all the way to Europe), and since then he never once (not once) mentioned Libya again. P.S.: What's going on in Libya now that Nicholas Kristof got his regime-change? Selling of slaves in open markets: https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/21/595497429/migrants-passing-through-libya-could-end-up-being-sold-as-slaves https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/21/595497429/...
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  And even historically can’t talk about NYT without Walter Duranty, the Stalin apologist and Holodomor denier.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  "directly responsible" implies they made the decision.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    Not solely responsible does not mean they weren't directly responsible. The people that did "make the decision" used the story to justify their decisions.
bharat9848 6y ago
This should not be the reason to do same color all the journalists work. This argument is same that you get behind racism.

99 points by laurex 6y ago

It is amazing that after the massive negative repercussions for Saudi Arabia after their murder of Khashoggi, that the nations of the world somehow decided that such murder is more worthwhile than before. Iran just murdered Roohollah Zam the other week.

bryanrasmussen 6y ago
Regarding Khashoggi, I haven't been able to find an actual estimate of the costs of sanctions for Saudi Arabia so it is difficult to really evaluation how massive these negative repercussions are - but they actually seem pretty trivial to me.
- wrnr 6y ago
  Hard to put a price on reputation, but I suspect they have a harder time raising money for their Neom project
  - adventured 6y ago
    It rather smashed their attempt to economically open up Saudi Arabia to new forms of investment, at least for a decade. MBS had tried to set up a whirlwind effort to establish a 'new' Saudi Arabia and was spending a lot of money and effort to lure large investors to partner with. His 2018 tour of Silicon Valley, meeting with prominent tech players, wouldn't be possible post Khashoggi, those people stopped taking meetings with MBS afterward. Eventually the potentcy of that story will fade of course.
- tpmx 6y ago
  It's telling how the SoftBank Vision Fund has been ridiculed way more for bad investments than its Silicon Valley funding targets (https://visionfund.com/portfolio https://visionfund.com/portfolio - this includes at least one prominent YC company which received its investment 3 months after the Khashoggi murder, btw) have been criticized for accepting Saudi blood money.
RobertoG 6y ago
What massive negative repercussions?
- wave_function 6y ago
  I think the grandparent post was being sarcastic
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dfxm12 6y ago

“It has a ripple effect,” Mr. Maldonado, of Article 19, said. “It goes beyond just the discourse, which in itself has an inhibiting impact on the press.” Add this to the record breaking number of journalists arrested in the US this year [0], and it's plain to see that truth is at a premium. People on this site like to proselytize about freedom of speech, well this brazen attack on freedom of speech, where people are being held against their will or murdered, should weigh most heavily on our minds. 0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25432540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25432540

vrperson 6y ago
What makes you so sure that these people were arrested for telling the truth? What about telling the truth would be an offense worthy of arrest in the US? Assange and Manning come to mind, for leaking government secrets. But according to the article, most arrests happened in connection with Black Lives Matter protests. It seems equally plausible that more people than ever try to evade arrest by claiming they are journalists. Or journalist have less and less ethics when doing their jobs. Not saying that's the root cause, just that you can not simply assume all those people were arrested for telling "the truth". And how do people who bemoan that stand on the subject of censorship on social networks?
- klyrs 6y ago
  > What makes you so sure that these people were arrested for telling the truth? > But according to the article, most arrests happened in connection with Black Lives Matter protests. Kinda answered your own question here. Journalists were arrested for being present at newsworthy events, recording the truth as it unfolded before them
  - meragrin_ 6y ago
    Most probably weren't even arrested. Just "detained" while detaining the group of protestors they were amongst.
    - deleted 6y ago

reactspa 6y ago

While we're on the topic, let's take a moment to remind ourselves that New York Times journalists are directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians (mostly women and children) in Iraq, Syria, Libya. Judith Miller won a Pulitzer for reporting that Iraq had "weapons of mass destruction". Also, here's a fun activity. Go to the NYT website, and search "nicholas kristof libya". He promoted US support of regime-change of Libya in several articles before the US decided to give air-cover to the rebels. Then the entire country fell apart and millions of refugees went elsewhere (including all the way to Europe), and since then he never once (not once) mentioned Libya again. P.S.: What's going on in Libya now that Nicholas Kristof got his regime-change? Selling of slaves in open markets: https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/21/595497429/migrants-passing-through-libya-could-end-up-being-sold-as-slaves https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/21/595497429/...

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
And even historically can’t talk about NYT without Walter Duranty, the Stalin apologist and Holodomor denier.
mhh__ 6y ago
"directly responsible" implies they made the decision.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  Not solely responsible does not mean they weren't directly responsible. The people that did "make the decision" used the story to justify their decisions.

bharat9848 6y ago

This should not be the reason to do same color all the journalists work. This argument is same that you get behind racism.