5 ms·

Stick with it until you find another job, especially now that you can leverage the experience and everything you've learned. A paycheck is better than none at a

by lotusleaf1987 15y ago

Stick with it until you find another job, especially now that you can leverage the experience and everything you've learned. A paycheck is better than none at all so I'd wait to find a replacement before you quit, also it's usually easier to find a job when you're already employed.

uneasyearlyhire 15y ago
Looking for a job though already feels like being disloyal. Given how early we are and how much domain knowledge I have of our system and operations, I worry that my leaving the company could be catastrophic for them. On the other hand, do I even want to be with a company (as a non-founder) who's entire existence is dependent on a single employee? If so, then, I feel I should be compensated accordingly.
- lotusleaf1987 15y ago
  |Looking for a job though already feels like being disloyal. Not to be offensive, but you're brainwashed. You should be thinking about yourself. Why are you sacrificing your career, happiness, quality of life, and opportunities to a company that sounds like they're using/abusing you--low pay, no equity, bad work environment. If they're so dependent on you, then you should be compensated accordingly. Your value to the company and your pay are directly related.
- mgkimsal 15y ago
  they likely won't feel the slightest bit disloyal to you when the funding runs low/out. If they've hired other people on after you at a higher rate and haven't adjusted your salary, they're already being 'disloyal'. If they can afford multiple other developers, they can get you up to the median salary level. I'm too cynical about this - get your issues on the table, and either get something (more money, bonus/profit-sharing, equity) or get out.
- DavidAdams 15y ago
  I'm a serial startup founder, and I've been in the position that your CTO and CEO are in right now. It's hard and expensive to get a company off the ground and if you can find someone who will work for you, who's good, and they'll do it for less than they're worth, then awesome. My feeling is that if I'm paying someone 25% less than they're worth, then that makes it easier for me to give them a nice raise once we're "on our feet" financially. But that's a moving target, and it's always tempting to just let things ride. And if someone doesn't ask for equity, maybe I'll just let that ride too, because who wants to give up equity if they don't have to. I think these guys are making a mistake, though, because they're not just letting you get by making a little less that what you could make on the open market, and they're not just giving you a small amount of equity when you could perhaps demand more. They're playing with fire, because there's a good chance you could go out and find a good job, and by the time they find out you're dissatisfied, it's too late. But here's what I'm certain of: If, as other commenters have recommended, you have a meetup with them, and you let them know that you feel you're not being adequately compensated, and you've been thinking of starting a job hunt, but that your sense of loyalty dictates that you let them know now, before to get fed up and before you find another job, they'll give you a sweeter deal. They may not be able to afford to pay you more cash, but they can definitely afford to give you a decent equity stake. I can't say how much would be okay, but 0% is definitely not okay. In this case, you need to turn the tables. Once you've agreed to work for equity in lieu of a full-market salary, you become an investor, and they need to pitch you on the company's future. As for deciding what's appropriate, I'd recommend not thinking in terms of a percent, but have them make the case for the company being worth X amount. If they've raised money from other investors, then that may already be determined. Then you can agree on an amount of equity that's equal to a certain amount of the company's value. If you think you've missed out on $50,000 of compensation so far, then you should ask for that much equity, plus whatever extra you think you should get for the work you'll do in the near future. Then as the company's fortunes rise, then so will yours. Of course, if you're going to take equity at all, you need to have them make the case, and you need to believe it. Otherwise, keep working at this job long enough to get a new one, and let the chips fall where they may.
  - lotusleaf1987 15y ago
    David Adams, you're exactly the type of boss to avoid. If you're paying me less than you know I'm worth and hiring other people who contribute less and are less important, but are being compensated more--then that means you disrespect me as an employee and an individual and are taking advantage of me, knowingly, which makes it far worse. "et them know that you feel you're not being adequately compensated, and you've been thinking of starting a job hunt, but that your sense of loyalty dictates that you let them know now" I absolutely would not do this. Wait until you have other offers, if you play your cards now they could withhold giving you a reference or not as good of one as you truly deserve since they know it will be to their detriment. Do what is best for yourself, not some startup which has clearly illustrated, by the facts presented, that it does not value you as an employee. Someone else will, go find them--you owe it to yourself. As jfarmer said above: the kind of company that takes advantage of you when you're ignorant isn't the kind of company you want to work for even after you're fully-informed and can renegotiate a better deal.
- earl 15y ago
  You know what people whose leaving a company would be catastrophic are called? Owners

uneasyearlyhire 15y ago

Looking for a job though already feels like being disloyal. Given how early we are and how much domain knowledge I have of our system and operations, I worry that my leaving the company could be catastrophic for them. On the other hand, do I even want to be with a company (as a non-founder) who's entire existence is dependent on a single employee? If so, then, I feel I should be compensated accordingly.

lotusleaf1987 15y ago
|Looking for a job though already feels like being disloyal. Not to be offensive, but you're brainwashed. You should be thinking about yourself. Why are you sacrificing your career, happiness, quality of life, and opportunities to a company that sounds like they're using/abusing you--low pay, no equity, bad work environment. If they're so dependent on you, then you should be compensated accordingly. Your value to the company and your pay are directly related.
mgkimsal 15y ago
they likely won't feel the slightest bit disloyal to you when the funding runs low/out. If they've hired other people on after you at a higher rate and haven't adjusted your salary, they're already being 'disloyal'. If they can afford multiple other developers, they can get you up to the median salary level. I'm too cynical about this - get your issues on the table, and either get something (more money, bonus/profit-sharing, equity) or get out.
DavidAdams 15y ago
I'm a serial startup founder, and I've been in the position that your CTO and CEO are in right now. It's hard and expensive to get a company off the ground and if you can find someone who will work for you, who's good, and they'll do it for less than they're worth, then awesome. My feeling is that if I'm paying someone 25% less than they're worth, then that makes it easier for me to give them a nice raise once we're "on our feet" financially. But that's a moving target, and it's always tempting to just let things ride. And if someone doesn't ask for equity, maybe I'll just let that ride too, because who wants to give up equity if they don't have to. I think these guys are making a mistake, though, because they're not just letting you get by making a little less that what you could make on the open market, and they're not just giving you a small amount of equity when you could perhaps demand more. They're playing with fire, because there's a good chance you could go out and find a good job, and by the time they find out you're dissatisfied, it's too late. But here's what I'm certain of: If, as other commenters have recommended, you have a meetup with them, and you let them know that you feel you're not being adequately compensated, and you've been thinking of starting a job hunt, but that your sense of loyalty dictates that you let them know now, before to get fed up and before you find another job, they'll give you a sweeter deal. They may not be able to afford to pay you more cash, but they can definitely afford to give you a decent equity stake. I can't say how much would be okay, but 0% is definitely not okay. In this case, you need to turn the tables. Once you've agreed to work for equity in lieu of a full-market salary, you become an investor, and they need to pitch you on the company's future. As for deciding what's appropriate, I'd recommend not thinking in terms of a percent, but have them make the case for the company being worth X amount. If they've raised money from other investors, then that may already be determined. Then you can agree on an amount of equity that's equal to a certain amount of the company's value. If you think you've missed out on $50,000 of compensation so far, then you should ask for that much equity, plus whatever extra you think you should get for the work you'll do in the near future. Then as the company's fortunes rise, then so will yours. Of course, if you're going to take equity at all, you need to have them make the case, and you need to believe it. Otherwise, keep working at this job long enough to get a new one, and let the chips fall where they may.
- lotusleaf1987 15y ago
  David Adams, you're exactly the type of boss to avoid. If you're paying me less than you know I'm worth and hiring other people who contribute less and are less important, but are being compensated more--then that means you disrespect me as an employee and an individual and are taking advantage of me, knowingly, which makes it far worse. "et them know that you feel you're not being adequately compensated, and you've been thinking of starting a job hunt, but that your sense of loyalty dictates that you let them know now" I absolutely would not do this. Wait until you have other offers, if you play your cards now they could withhold giving you a reference or not as good of one as you truly deserve since they know it will be to their detriment. Do what is best for yourself, not some startup which has clearly illustrated, by the facts presented, that it does not value you as an employee. Someone else will, go find them--you owe it to yourself. As jfarmer said above: the kind of company that takes advantage of you when you're ignorant isn't the kind of company you want to work for even after you're fully-informed and can renegotiate a better deal.
earl 15y ago
You know what people whose leaving a company would be catastrophic are called? Owners