17 ms·

How a janitor at Frito-Lay invented Flamin' Hot Cheetos (2017)

406 points by 80mph 6y ago

intricatedetail 6y ago
I think what is special is that they offered him VP. Today he would probably got a voucher or got fired shortly and someone else taking credit. Today taking a look at particular community and researching what they are missing and taking into account their spending power is pretty standard in research. Also janitor would likely be either self employed or from agency and focused on his own life today.
latenightcoding 6y ago
I knew this was going to be about hot Cheetos guy, my favorite quote of his is: “I have a PhD of being poor, hungry and determined"
idoh 6y ago
What a legend! Janitors are outsourced now, and I wonder if the outsource everything makes the work your way to the top journey a lot harder.
- corobo 6y ago
  I doubt the janitor is going out on sales calls if they're contracted in from another company aye
- lixtra 6y ago
  More importantly he had time to learn about the business. How much time does a picker at Amazon have to think about the business ?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - scarface74 6y ago
    At least a picker at Amazon works for the same company as the CEO. Most jobs at that level would be contracted out.
    - _Understated_ 6y ago
      In the UK, at least, Amazon hires temps via an agency. Source: I work there for the agency (since I can't find a job... thanks to the Gov response to COVID!)
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - angry_octet 6y ago
      Why do I get the feeling that if a janitor (outsourced or not) emailed Bezos with an idea, he'd be fired, threatened with lawyers for stealing Amazon business process IP until he signed away any IP rights, and then maybe Amazon would roll it out without crediting him?
      - jsolson 6y ago
        Despite my reservations about Amazon after having worked there, I think you're wrong here, _particularly_ with respect to Bezos. With some random director or VP? Sure. With Jeff you don't get the impression that he's a snob about the sources of good ideas. Note that I don't think you'd get so much as a bonus or pay bump for your trouble, but don't worry, you can feed your family with the pride you have in your idea making the flywheel turn that much faster.
        angry_octet 6y ago
        You're right, I was more thinking about the Amazon machine. With Bezos who knows, he might make the VP a janitor and give him your job.
TameAntelope 6y ago
There's no mention about whether or not the flavor Montañez came up with was the one used in the hot Cheetoes, or if the CEO even tried one. Not that it matters, but I think it's interesting that the actual product here we can safely hand-wave away, "The chefs in the test kitchen will make that part work."
- compiler-guy 6y ago
  The exact flavor isn't important. What is important is that he identified an unserved, high-potential, market and put together what was basically a minimum viable product. I'm sure it needed massive refinement, but that shortcoming is a normal piece of any product development.
  - TameAntelope 6y ago
    Totally agree, I just think it's unintuitive how the actual literal product is often the least important part of the process.
  - Noumenon72 6y ago
    Also, it sounds like his presentation skills provided management with a spokesperson/avatar/salesman for the project, possibly making it the right time to move forward with some ideas they already had but didn't have the right person for.
- ksk 6y ago
  I think coming up with the final formula requires an understanding of not just taste/food science, but also manufacturing logistics, raw material sourcing, etc. There's probably a lot of trade-offs involved, as you can imagine as well. I agree with you that it's a team effort, but unfortunately the impact of such stories is probably diminished if they weren't about the janitor walking into the CEO's office and hitting a home run.
KindOne 6y ago
If you don't want to read the twitter thread, you can read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175 (2019) https://thehustle.co/hot-cheetos-inventor/ https://thehustle.co/hot-cheetos-inventor/
- nend 6y ago
  Thank you. I can't really think of a worse way to read twitter than a long form story broken up in to 13 separate posts.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  I actually came to post this. After noticing some weird terminology in the Twitter thread (I've never heard the term "Cucamonga Valley" used to refer to the neighborhood by Ontario International Airport) I found that hustle.co article which has very similar wording. I think the Twitter thread is just a paraphrasing with some jazzed up details
  - shmageggy 6y ago
    > paraphrasing That’s a generous way to say plagiarism IMO. Link should probably be updated to this (@dang?). Plus it avoids the abomination that is long form text mutilated into a thousand tweets.
    - netsharc 6y ago
      Especially since on Twitter it could be summarised as "Janitor introduced flaming cheetos to CEO and it made the company xxx dollars".. God damn attention-seeking content-stealing Twitterers..
      - kenshi 6y ago
        Information arbitrage is one helluva social media drug.
    - dang 6y ago
tantalor 6y ago
Readable version: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1341193051184611331.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1341193051184611331.html
- devindotcom 6y ago
  Even more readable, the source article from three years ago: https://thehustle.co/hot-cheetos-inventor/ https://thehustle.co/hot-cheetos-inventor/
Someone 6y ago
Great story, but it can’t happen today. No janitor works for the company whose floors he’s mopping anymore, so janitors wouldn’t get that company-wide email.
- scarface74 6y ago
  It’s amazing that corporate America thinks it can’t hire a at all levels from the custodian to the CEO, but almost every school system and government can figure it out.
  - laverya 6y ago
    Governments (in the west) don't hire their leaders, though. Same is true of schools - principals and the like might be hired, but the school boards that chose them are elected.
    - dexterdog 6y ago
      And those boards usually select the superintendent and that superintendent certainly didn't start in the system as a janitor, nor did any of the principals under him.
    - umanwizard 6y ago
      By the West, do you just mean the US? Where else are small potatoes administrative positions like school board, etc. actually elected?
  - rualca 6y ago
    > It’s amazing that corporate America thinks it can’t hire a at all levels (...) I don't believe that's the case at all. It's not like they believe they can't hire someone. That's a silly assumption. There is however the idea that there are operational advantages in outsourcing non-core areas of their business. If they hire a specialized contractor to do maintenance tasks then you no longer have to bother with gaining expertise in that area, and you can even scale up and down your service to meet demands. The rationale is like figuring out how we have lunch. Sure, we can cook it ourselves and it will certainly be cheaper. However, if we pay a third party to provide us with our lunch then we get food cooked by pros and we even have the freedom to pick fancy dishes from some other restaurant if we deem it necessary.
oh_sigh 6y ago
Why did I know it was going to be an Indian guy telling this story? This one happens to be somewhat true, but frequently they are of the style "and then everyone clapped, and the professor kissed my feet" Does anyone know why these kinds of stories are so popular for Indians? About 20% of Quora is filled with them.
- intricatedetail 6y ago
  Probably serving the ethos "if you work hard, good things will eventually come". Kind of useful phrase to tell people you want to exploit. They'll work harder for same reward.
  - bserge 6y ago
    "If you work hard and get the attention of someone higher up, you may get lucky" would be more appropriate.
- mdoms 6y ago
  You can probably just keep the casual racism to yourself.
  - Ancapistani 6y ago
    Hold up just a sec here. I’m not sure I that “Indian” is a “race” for any common definition of the word. It’s a nationality, but my my relatively uninformed perspective it appears that there are many ethnic and cultural groups that comprise it. More importantly, you seem to be attributing malice to the GP. They are noticing a cultural difference and asking for context. While their choice of phrasing may seem to some of us to be “problematic”, it looks to me that they are asking a reasonable and valid question. I’ve noticed that these sorts of “feel good”/“just so” stories are very common in Asian cultures. I’ve seen many short movies from Thailand where the downtrodden underdog ends up doing a hugely positive thing and ultimately being appreciated for it. If memory serves, some of them are produced by the state itself. I have no idea what role they serve in their culture, but it’s different enough from my own to be an interesting phenomenon. I certainly don’t think asking about it is a bad thing.
KingMachiavelli 6y ago
> The CEO got on the line. Loving the initiative, he told Richard to prepare a presentation, and he set a meeting in 2 weeks time. So he didn't really just walk in like the title implies. Still it's a remarkable journey. It invokes a certain nostalgia about a past where anyone could move up through the social/corporate ladder and if that is still the case. Personally, I wonder if that time really ever existed or if these are 1/million changes of luck.
- Ancapistani 6y ago
  It’s cliche, but I find it to be true: “Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity” Mr. Montanez had done the preparation - he’d immersed himself in the company and its products, and was actively looking for ways to contribute to it. I am very confident that this was not the only idea he had to do so; I strongly suspect Frito-Lay discovered that as well, which is why he ended up in upper management. Now, does it happen for everyone, every time? Of course not. It’s not even numerically possible for everyone to take this path. I’ve always taken pride in immersing myself with the company I work for as well, and while that has worked out very well in some cases in others it has had no apparent effect. That’s OK. I see it as part of my character, not merely as a play for more responsibility (and compensation). I don’t think it’s just “luck”, though. I think someone who builds this type of character will benefit from it. It may not make them a VP at Frito-Lay, but it will benefit them.
wenbin 6y ago
Richard Montañez did quite a few podcast interviews in the past few years: https://lnns.co/aQN_ukyM4J9 https://lnns.co/aQN_ukyM4J9
bserge 6y ago
This is a really nice story, but you know who the other hero is? The CEO who gave him the time and the opportunity. He could've easily told him to fuck off, as many would do. Who was he, what's his name? More often than not, we get nowhere without people in better positions helping us, it would be great if more people would keep an open mind like that. That CEO deserves recognition. And if you manage to climb higher on the ladder, don't forget to help others like someone helped you before. Pay it forward.
- rajacombinator 6y ago
  Agree it’s an underrated part of the story. A CEO who was able to recognize, reward, and take a chance on someone who showed initiative and potential. A sadly rare ability in the world of CYA management.
- paul7986 6y ago
  I agree and was very fortunate to meet such a guy right out of college where I was studying Recording INdustry. All our teachers said good luck getting a job and I was only three out 60 that I heard got a job out of college in the field. Once I moved from Nashville to NYC for my label job I met a ton of other men and women whom this same guy gave them a chance too. That's how his career started .. he met a label head at a concert in the 80s who gave him a chance. Great guy who helped found many popular artist careers in the 90s.
  - sbuccini 6y ago
    Would love to hear more details about this.
    - paul7986 6y ago
      Thank you for your interest! I'm a hobbyist songwriter but pursued it in college at Middle Tennesse State University. I learned you got to be the best of the best and then luck needs to fall onto you as it did for my songwriting classmate, Luke Laird (wrote many Carrie Underwood and country number one songs.. was best writer in class.. not sure how he got his break). During college I was able to intern at record labels and attend fun industry functions like CRS (country radio seminar), NARM and the parties that happened after each day of the event. At NARM in Orlando I went to the events during the day and then found the parties the labels held for record store (2001 when record stores existed lol) people. At one of the parties I met some executives and partied with them and then one introduced me their friend. Her friend was the guy I mentioned and we hit it off, gave him my business card and a month later he left a message on my voicemail (was back in Nashville) saying he wanted to hire me for a marketing job at RCA/Victor (jazz label ... Etta James was on it). I only lasted 6 months (he forced my boss to hire me and she hated me) in my supposed dream job in NYC, but it was a fun and interesting (witnessed the twin towers falling from Times Square in my office's 41st floor) time in my life.
fortran77 6y ago
This story is being made into a movie. The twitter thread, no doubt, is an effort to promote it. See https://www.newsweek.com/flamin-hot-cheeto-movie-true-story-creator-richard-montanez-1456377 https://www.newsweek.com/flamin-hot-cheeto-movie-true-story-... See IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8105234/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8105234/
- nether 6y ago
  When did it come out? Where can I see it?
alistairSH 6y ago
$18/hr adjusted for inflation. Almost a living wage back then. And unlikely to be paid today.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Janitors are able to demand $18+/hour in SoCal, plus benefits in some companies.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    You're able to demand anything you want anywhere... but you're not likely to get it.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      “Able to demand” colloquially means they are getting it.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  LA County minimum wage is $15 per hour for businesses with more than 25 employees.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    Rancho Cucamonga is only subject to the state minimum wage ($13 IIRC, although it probably goes further than $15 would in many of the unincorporated parts of LA county)
    - dehrmann 6y ago
      It's also 5 miles from LA county, so wages should be halfway competitive.
      - Rebelgecko 6y ago
        What's kinda funky is that the LA County minimum wage only applies to Unincorporated areas, so if you're in the city of Pomona or wherever the minimum wage is still $13
Mulpze15 6y ago
Richard Montañez has all my admiration for what he achieved. This is a beautiful story. Unfortunately, those kinds of stories also play into the narrative: be a good model employee, make sure the floors shine and trust that hard work, and great ideas will make you deservedly insanely rich. Because there are smart CEOs who will see all of that Cinderella, capitalist version. Too rare to be significant as a policy. Most likely does not scale. Too often, dreams are useful to convince people to accept their fate.
- cultus 6y ago
  It seems like these feel-good stories about benevolent capitalists get a little less traction now, although perhaps not in forums populated by the labor aristocracy.
- dvdhnt 6y ago
  > Too often, dreams are useful to convince people to accept their fate. It's sad how right you are. And it's sad how trying to educate others and acknowledge the facade puts a target on your back, then suddenly the same people who you want to help now see you as the enemy. Cheers.
- troupe 6y ago
  > make sure the floors shine and trust that hard work, and great ideas will make you deservedly insanely rich. Generally someone who is known for doing a good job of whatever it is that they are doing and has a lot of initiative are going to have more opportunities than someone who doesn't really care to do a good job and has no initiative. Showing up for practice doesn't mean you will be a great athlete, but not showing up is a good way to dramatically reduce your chances.
- lovehashbrowns 6y ago
  100% absolutely true. I respect Richard for what he did and how he has viewed things, but I am much more cynical about the world. This is likely a small exception out of hundreds of thousands of times that "the janitor" got completely screwed over, if they were even given a chance to begin with. I mean, it happens on the daily. The startup I previously worked for had this "test" API, I helped turn it into an essential API that brought the company a ton of money, and I saw 0 of it. My title got bumped, I guess. And now, I work on something even less visible. If I do something at work that saves thousands of my coworkers thousands of hours a quarter, I don't see any of that. Nor can I show it, because the higher-up management people don't know what a Jenkins is or what an Artifactory is. How do I sweep these "floors" so well that the CEO can see any of it? Even the coworkers that use my stuff directly don't give a shit because they have code to write and my improvements save them ~20 minutes a day every other day or two.
amelius 6y ago
Another way this story could have ended: CEO: Thanks for the idea! Goodbye, and don't forget your mop! (CEO shares go up by $20M) Janitor: Damn, I should have brought a lawyer. If only I had the money for one.
- giarc 6y ago
  My father worked for GM as a tool and die maker. They had a program once where employees could submit ideas for efficieny improvements and would get a reward of 10% of the savings (or something along those lines). There was some process whereby parts were coming off the line and 100% needed additional work for final install (I believe it was hoods of Impalas or something). My dad had proposed this change to the stamping that would have made this extra work unecessary and had calculated a savings of nearly $30 million given the number of Impalas built, the hours needed for the part and the average wage of the employee. Management blew him off and low and behold, a few months down the road he was asked to build the tooling for the change. He is not $3 million richer.
- throwaway2245 6y ago
  The story probably does end that way 99.9 out of 100 times. Whose interest is it in that this is the story that gets repeatedly told as inspiration?
- readams 6y ago
  You could be like Peter Roberts, who invented the quick release on wrenches: https://apnews.com/article/aed4a37bc719aba52db82cb96029fded#:~:text=Peter%20Roberts%20of%20Tennessee%20was,rightful%20royalties%20from%20the%20device https://apnews.com/article/aed4a37bc719aba52db82cb96029fded#.... He did eventually win his lawsuit though. 20 YEARS later.
spicyramen 6y ago
This is a good story that poses philosophical questions as what intelligence means. Regardless his social class and jobs he look for opportunities and achieved success. There is a movement in tech for underrepresented minorities. I would dispute that opportunities should be given to anybody regardless their social class race or background, just not only latinos, black or women
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  There is a movement in medicine to find a cure for breast cancer. I would dispute that research should be given to all cancers, regardless of the body part, not just breast, brain, or lung
huangc10 6y ago
My gf loves spicy cheetos. What a fun story to share.
cvhashim 6y ago
He only made 20mil in earnings? I feel like he got robbed. Should have started his own company and eventually sold to Frito Lay for 10x the amount he made.
- Keverw 6y ago
  Not sure if he was in a position for that. It's not like tech where you can just start coding in your bedroom after work. Psychical products are header and then health permits and stuff. Unless maybe he did it at events and trade shows small scale, but by time he could scale up to be in retail he'd probably be copied anyways if trying to bootstrap. Unless he could seek investments but I guess that depends on who you know. So many business ideas die in the parking lot of a bank. I watch Shark Tank from time to time and it seems like retail and food is one of the hardest things to get into. slotting fees and can be really low margin too. So maybe he could of went off on his own and done it, but part of me feels like that's a all or nothing bet. I know personally starting a food brand all by myself is not something I'd even try since it seems like a losing game to me and other businesses would be more suited for me to go after.
Glench 6y ago
Two things I haven't seen anyone mention that seem important: 1. For the one person who has "made it" economically, there are countless others that haven't, that still live in one-room houses. What about them? 2. I think it's worthwhile pointing out that the product that he created, while popular and financially successful, is a junk food that has a significant impact on the health of adults and children worldwide. We should evaluate "success" holistically, not just financially or else we miss the downstream effects of our decisions. This blindness is the same mindset that has caused climate change. That said, it's wonderful to see someone lifted out of poverty. I hope millions more have the same chance.
- zpeti 6y ago
  It’s sad to see that in the last 10 years this type of comment (tries to) ruin every single inspirational story. Just because there’s shit in the world doesn’t mean there isn’t beauty and greatness and awesomeness sometimes. In fact that’s what makes it wonderful. If you’re bitter and all you see is the shit, and resent any inspirational story, well, good luck to you but I definitely don’t think you’ll have a productive, or inspirational life.
  - jonplackett 6y ago
    Seconded. Yeah sure it's a junk food but it's not like he invented Opium or explosives or something. Give the guy a break!
  - borepop 6y ago
    I don't think the person to whom you're responding was trying to "ruin" anything, they were just pointing out a complicating fact that is objectively true, which is that Frito Lay is in the business of selling junk food. The inspirational part and the problematic part are both real things, and acknowledging one doesn't mean the other is unimportant.
    - Glench 6y ago
      wonderfully said, thank you!
pmoriarty 6y ago
This saccharine rags-to-riches, pro-corporate fairy tale makes me so sad and mad, all the more so for the unreflective adulation it has gotten.
- dvdhnt 6y ago
  [opinion to follow, my own] Even in 2020, while the rich get richer (literally being subsidized by COVID "relief" bills) and the poor are looking to avoid being evicted, the flood of pro-corporate defenders is never ending. It is a true downside to having such a large, albeit fragile middle-class. The fundamental premise of this story is flawed given how most board/c-suite positions are attained and how almost all wealth is acquired e.g. inherited. And HN is not immune to the rallying cry of defending billionaires and our perverted version of a "free-market" (lol). Anyway, I'm mad, too, internet stranger. I'm mad that we spend more time admiring CEOs than we do fixing real problems. Cheers and I hope you read this before the downvotes cause it to fade.
  - andreilys 6y ago
    The fundamental premise of this story is flawed given how most board/c-suite positions are attained and how almost all wealth is acquired e.g. inherited. Citation needed. From a simple google search it seems 55.8% of Billionaires are "self-made" [1]. Sure some of them started off with silver spoons (i.e. Gates) but they did not inherit the billions they made from starting companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Tesla, etc. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/wealthx-billionaire-census-majority-of-worlds-billionaires-self-made.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/wealthx-billionaire-census-m...
    - orange_tee 6y ago
      Wealth accumulation is exponential so starting with "mere millions" is deceptive. The first million is the hardest.
    - Merman_Mike 6y ago
      You're comparing "almost all wealth" (from GP) to the number of people with self-made wealth, which doesn't make sense. > Taken together, much of the best available evidence suggests that the median dollar of wealth in the United States has been inherited by someone in the richest 5 percent of families. https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/02/06/people-like-estate-tax-whole-lot-more-when-they-learn-how-wealth-is-distributed/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/02/06/people-l...
kevindeasis 6y ago
Can anyone tell me about non-founder CEOs who has done a great job of creating innovative products for a company without using MAs? I'm trying to think about if there's any correlation between the two. There are some posts in HN that was about founder ceos but I cant remember the context. I'll have to go look for those
- asutekku 6y ago
  Non-founder ceo usually is much more restricted on time on what they can do. Founder CEO has much less strings to hold.
  - kevindeasis 6y ago
    Can you tell me more about the time restriction that they have? Is that about hitting quarterly targets?
lovetocode 6y ago
There are so many stories about how flaming hot Cheetos came to be.
throwawaysea 6y ago
I applaud both the janitor for his initiative and the executive for listening and giving credit where credit is due. I feel like in big companies today, including tech companies that are overly praised for their culture, there is little room for such a story to unfold. More likely than not, someone with initiative has donated their idea and strategy to the company for free, while someone else gets put in charge of executing it, and capturing the career benefits. It’s cynical I know and I’m sure there are counterexamples, but the vast majority of attempts at such initiative don’t go anywhere.
freeopinion 6y ago
$20 million in Rancho Cucamonga. So that's like $1 million in real money, right?
goatcode 6y ago
$4.25, but close enough.
jaimex2 6y ago
Whats the punchline?
- lucb1e 6y ago
  Are you asking for someone to copy the last tweet to HN, or do I misunderstand your comment?
jasonhansel 6y ago
That's $18.52 an hour in today's dollars. The average pay for a janitor today is closer to $12 an hour. In fact, just a few years after 1976, janitors' wages (at least in LA) started falling sharply below the cost of living: https://socialjusticehistory.org/lalabor/workingla/archives/792 https://socialjusticehistory.org/lalabor/workingla/archives/... The fact that our economic system worked for him does not mean that it works for the vast majority of people in similar jobs. It's quite likely that some of his colleagues are now making less money (in real terms) than they were in the 70s.
- maxk42 6y ago
  This was in "the late 1980s". Even if we're assuming this was in 1985, $4 in 1985 is $9.36 - $9.85 today. Sources: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ https://smartasset.com/investing/inflation-calculator https://smartasset.com/investing/inflation-calculator https://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.html?cstartingamount1=4&cinyear1=1985&coutyear1=2020&calctype=1&x=96&y=26 https://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.html?cstarti...
  - airza 6y ago
    The article states that the job opening was in 1976.
- baron816 6y ago
  The US has a lot more immigrants from Latin America living here than it did back then. Plus, unemployment is lower (even with the pandemic). I would rather have 1 million people making $12/hr and 0 unemployed and in poverty than 650k people making $18/hr with 350k just shit out of luck. I can’t say the former is what we have, but with unions or tight labor market regulation, the later tends to be closer to what you get.
  - hugi 6y ago
    Yeah, know what you mean. It's a real hellscape up here in Iceland with all these unions and livable wages. We aspire to become a better and more profitable American style system.
yarnover 6y ago
“A cat may look at a king,” as the saying goes.
- lucb1e 6y ago
  I didn't know it. [1] says it means "even a person of low status or importance has rights". The janitor in the story has rights, like he can certainly try to call the CEO to pitch an idea. Is that what you meant to point out? I feel like I'm missing out on the profoundness. [1] https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/a+cat+may+look+at+a+king https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/a+cat+may+look+at+a+kin...
rognjen 6y ago
The person just copy pasted an article they read a while back to their Twitter. Not sure why but I really hate it.
justatdotin 6y ago
scarcity value
orange_tee 6y ago
The way this story is told, makes little sense. So he sprinkled some Mexican seasoning on plain Cheetos and gave a presentation, and they gave him $20 million for that? WTF? There's a lot left untold. Or if this is the entire story, the CEO basically decided to make this guy into a millionaire, but he didn't have to. Or this is a clever PR stunt with maybe a sprinkling of truth.
- nkrisc 6y ago
  No, it says he went on to be a VP and amassed $20 million fortune, not that he was given $20 million for that one idea on the spot. So presumably that's how much he worth now.
- 542458 6y ago
  The insight isn’t “add some spices to cheetos”. It’s “you’re ignoring the entire Latin market, and we have different preferences in food than you do, and here’s what those preferences are, and here’s an example product for that.”
hmwhy 6y ago
This story really stuck with me when I came across it here[0] last year because of the way it's written. As a few have pointed out, the Twitter messages are just "paraphrasing" the article if you put it nicely. Putting a few references after doing the original sources injustice by telling just half of the story doesn't make it okay either. Is this some kind of new tactic to grow your audience? I was raised to be honest, I worked in industries the consequences of being dishonest is supposedly absolutely unacceptable, but in most cases people who are dishonest usually get further ahead than most with little to no punishments. Seeing this get so much attention is very demoralising. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  I think you just have to be honest for the sake of your pride. The world hardly punishes dishonest people itself.
person_of_color 6y ago
Related: It's funny how people are happy with <$1mn FAANG salary when there's oodles to be made fulfilling untapped markets.
vmurthy 6y ago
Lovely story and kudos to both Montanez (the janitor) and the company for their success but I can't help notice a bit of survivorship bias in these kind of stories. How many thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of such ideas come to people at all levels in all companies and how many turn out to be duds is never covered. Although the story made me feel good, I can't really draw any lessons from it I'm afraid.
- k_sze 6y ago
  I think the lesson is that if you take the chance, then there is a chance. If you don't take the chance, then there is no chance.
cbanek 6y ago
> So Montañez assembled a small team of family members and friends, went to the test markets, and bought every bag of Hot Cheetos he could find. Well, that would certainly make them sell better, but doesn't exactly make it an accurate test? I think I've heard of other companies doing this, although usually it's to inflate revenue and growth numbers pitching to investors or space in stores. I want to say some company did this recently but I can't remember exactly who. But don't get me wrong, I love me some flaming hot cheetos and it's a great feeling story. Although I also remember the Wire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyg_v7Vxo4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyg_v7Vxo4A
- civilized 6y ago
  He juiced the sales to make sure the product didn't get killed prematurely. Anyone who came from his background and got that opportunity would have thought to do the same
Vaslo 6y ago
Unfortunately my experience has been when a CEO is asking you to “act like an owner” it is code for “spend less” and “work more.” The subject of this article had an advantage because he took things quite literally and hadn’t heard the BS before. 3G Capital also uses the “act like an owner” code - the problem is that their employees cut a bunch stuff and they cut a bunch of their employees.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Yes, it’s always act like an owner, accept pay like a serf.
bluedino 6y ago
“Inventing a new snack” and coming up with a idea for a flavor for an existing snack are two different things. Also, I imagine that a couple food scientists in a lab came up with the actual flavors.
- CrazyStat 6y ago
  Montañez took home unflavored cheetos, created a spice mix at home with his wife, and pitched the cheetos coated in his spice mix to the CEO and senior executives. I imagine the final recipe was not the same as his home spice mix, but not giving him credit for the flavor is silly.
taasgbv 6y ago
"...and that's why capitalism works!" Trash piece funded by the AEI.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sam1r 6y ago
Where else can one read end-to-end discovery articles as such? Anything better than regex title filters "* how by "
gnicholas 6y ago
> So Montañez assembled a small team of family members and friends, went to the test markets, and bought every bag of Hot Cheetos he could find. Sounds like Hampton Creek's mayo shenanigans: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-hampton-creek-just-mayo/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-hampton-creek-just-m...
11235813213455 6y ago
I understand that from an economical perspective, this is brilliant, but the natural part of myself also think that this kinda of junk food is ruining this planet. Its more or less directly the cause of most pollution troubles (over-consumerism, transports, .., at the expense of organic local "good" food)
- anshumankmr 6y ago
  You can choose not to eat it. And plus, a bag of chips once in a while doesn't hurt anyone unless you are allergic to it or a heart patient perhaps.
  - kfrncs 6y ago
    The plastic hurts _a lot_ of animals. And the microplastics are hurting us too.
  - 11235813213455 6y ago
    If most people made this good choice to not eat it, then this article wouldn't exist

406 points by 80mph 6y ago

I think what is special is that they offered him VP. Today he would probably got a voucher or got fired shortly and someone else taking credit. Today taking a look at particular community and researching what they are missing and taking into account their spending power is pretty standard in research. Also janitor would likely be either self employed or from agency and focused on his own life today.

latenightcoding 6y ago

I knew this was going to be about hot Cheetos guy, my favorite quote of his is: “I have a PhD of being poor, hungry and determined"

idoh 6y ago

What a legend! Janitors are outsourced now, and I wonder if the outsource everything makes the work your way to the top journey a lot harder.

corobo 6y ago
I doubt the janitor is going out on sales calls if they're contracted in from another company aye
lixtra 6y ago
More importantly he had time to learn about the business. How much time does a picker at Amazon have to think about the business ?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- scarface74 6y ago
  At least a picker at Amazon works for the same company as the CEO. Most jobs at that level would be contracted out.
  - _Understated_ 6y ago
    In the UK, at least, Amazon hires temps via an agency. Source: I work there for the agency (since I can't find a job... thanks to the Gov response to COVID!)
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - angry_octet 6y ago
    Why do I get the feeling that if a janitor (outsourced or not) emailed Bezos with an idea, he'd be fired, threatened with lawyers for stealing Amazon business process IP until he signed away any IP rights, and then maybe Amazon would roll it out without crediting him?
    - jsolson 6y ago
      Despite my reservations about Amazon after having worked there, I think you're wrong here, _particularly_ with respect to Bezos. With some random director or VP? Sure. With Jeff you don't get the impression that he's a snob about the sources of good ideas. Note that I don't think you'd get so much as a bonus or pay bump for your trouble, but don't worry, you can feed your family with the pride you have in your idea making the flywheel turn that much faster.
      - angry_octet 6y ago
        You're right, I was more thinking about the Amazon machine. With Bezos who knows, he might make the VP a janitor and give him your job.

TameAntelope 6y ago

There's no mention about whether or not the flavor Montañez came up with was the one used in the hot Cheetoes, or if the CEO even tried one. Not that it matters, but I think it's interesting that the actual product here we can safely hand-wave away, "The chefs in the test kitchen will make that part work."

compiler-guy 6y ago
The exact flavor isn't important. What is important is that he identified an unserved, high-potential, market and put together what was basically a minimum viable product. I'm sure it needed massive refinement, but that shortcoming is a normal piece of any product development.
- TameAntelope 6y ago
  Totally agree, I just think it's unintuitive how the actual literal product is often the least important part of the process.
- Noumenon72 6y ago
  Also, it sounds like his presentation skills provided management with a spokesperson/avatar/salesman for the project, possibly making it the right time to move forward with some ideas they already had but didn't have the right person for.
ksk 6y ago
I think coming up with the final formula requires an understanding of not just taste/food science, but also manufacturing logistics, raw material sourcing, etc. There's probably a lot of trade-offs involved, as you can imagine as well. I agree with you that it's a team effort, but unfortunately the impact of such stories is probably diminished if they weren't about the janitor walking into the CEO's office and hitting a home run.

KindOne 6y ago

If you don't want to read the twitter thread, you can read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175 (2019) https://thehustle.co/hot-cheetos-inventor/ https://thehustle.co/hot-cheetos-inventor/

nend 6y ago
Thank you. I can't really think of a worse way to read twitter than a long form story broken up in to 13 separate posts.
Rebelgecko 6y ago
I actually came to post this. After noticing some weird terminology in the Twitter thread (I've never heard the term "Cucamonga Valley" used to refer to the neighborhood by Ontario International Airport) I found that hustle.co article which has very similar wording. I think the Twitter thread is just a paraphrasing with some jazzed up details
- shmageggy 6y ago
  > paraphrasing That’s a generous way to say plagiarism IMO. Link should probably be updated to this (@dang?). Plus it avoids the abomination that is long form text mutilated into a thousand tweets.
  - netsharc 6y ago
    Especially since on Twitter it could be summarised as "Janitor introduced flaming cheetos to CEO and it made the company xxx dollars".. God damn attention-seeking content-stealing Twitterers..
    - kenshi 6y ago
      Information arbitrage is one helluva social media drug.
  - dang 6y ago

tantalor 6y ago

Readable version: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1341193051184611331.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1341193051184611331.html

devindotcom 6y ago
Even more readable, the source article from three years ago: https://thehustle.co/hot-cheetos-inventor/ https://thehustle.co/hot-cheetos-inventor/

Someone 6y ago

Great story, but it can’t happen today. No janitor works for the company whose floors he’s mopping anymore, so janitors wouldn’t get that company-wide email.

scarface74 6y ago
It’s amazing that corporate America thinks it can’t hire a at all levels from the custodian to the CEO, but almost every school system and government can figure it out.
- laverya 6y ago
  Governments (in the west) don't hire their leaders, though. Same is true of schools - principals and the like might be hired, but the school boards that chose them are elected.
  - dexterdog 6y ago
    And those boards usually select the superintendent and that superintendent certainly didn't start in the system as a janitor, nor did any of the principals under him.
  - umanwizard 6y ago
    By the West, do you just mean the US? Where else are small potatoes administrative positions like school board, etc. actually elected?
- rualca 6y ago
  > It’s amazing that corporate America thinks it can’t hire a at all levels (...) I don't believe that's the case at all. It's not like they believe they can't hire someone. That's a silly assumption. There is however the idea that there are operational advantages in outsourcing non-core areas of their business. If they hire a specialized contractor to do maintenance tasks then you no longer have to bother with gaining expertise in that area, and you can even scale up and down your service to meet demands. The rationale is like figuring out how we have lunch. Sure, we can cook it ourselves and it will certainly be cheaper. However, if we pay a third party to provide us with our lunch then we get food cooked by pros and we even have the freedom to pick fancy dishes from some other restaurant if we deem it necessary.

oh_sigh 6y ago

Why did I know it was going to be an Indian guy telling this story? This one happens to be somewhat true, but frequently they are of the style "and then everyone clapped, and the professor kissed my feet" Does anyone know why these kinds of stories are so popular for Indians? About 20% of Quora is filled with them.

intricatedetail 6y ago
Probably serving the ethos "if you work hard, good things will eventually come". Kind of useful phrase to tell people you want to exploit. They'll work harder for same reward.
- bserge 6y ago
  "If you work hard and get the attention of someone higher up, you may get lucky" would be more appropriate.
mdoms 6y ago
You can probably just keep the casual racism to yourself.
- Ancapistani 6y ago
  Hold up just a sec here. I’m not sure I that “Indian” is a “race” for any common definition of the word. It’s a nationality, but my my relatively uninformed perspective it appears that there are many ethnic and cultural groups that comprise it. More importantly, you seem to be attributing malice to the GP. They are noticing a cultural difference and asking for context. While their choice of phrasing may seem to some of us to be “problematic”, it looks to me that they are asking a reasonable and valid question. I’ve noticed that these sorts of “feel good”/“just so” stories are very common in Asian cultures. I’ve seen many short movies from Thailand where the downtrodden underdog ends up doing a hugely positive thing and ultimately being appreciated for it. If memory serves, some of them are produced by the state itself. I have no idea what role they serve in their culture, but it’s different enough from my own to be an interesting phenomenon. I certainly don’t think asking about it is a bad thing.

KingMachiavelli 6y ago

> The CEO got on the line. Loving the initiative, he told Richard to prepare a presentation, and he set a meeting in 2 weeks time. So he didn't really just walk in like the title implies. Still it's a remarkable journey. It invokes a certain nostalgia about a past where anyone could move up through the social/corporate ladder and if that is still the case. Personally, I wonder if that time really ever existed or if these are 1/million changes of luck.

Ancapistani 6y ago
It’s cliche, but I find it to be true: “Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity” Mr. Montanez had done the preparation - he’d immersed himself in the company and its products, and was actively looking for ways to contribute to it. I am very confident that this was not the only idea he had to do so; I strongly suspect Frito-Lay discovered that as well, which is why he ended up in upper management. Now, does it happen for everyone, every time? Of course not. It’s not even numerically possible for everyone to take this path. I’ve always taken pride in immersing myself with the company I work for as well, and while that has worked out very well in some cases in others it has had no apparent effect. That’s OK. I see it as part of my character, not merely as a play for more responsibility (and compensation). I don’t think it’s just “luck”, though. I think someone who builds this type of character will benefit from it. It may not make them a VP at Frito-Lay, but it will benefit them.

wenbin 6y ago

Richard Montañez did quite a few podcast interviews in the past few years: https://lnns.co/aQN_ukyM4J9 https://lnns.co/aQN_ukyM4J9

bserge 6y ago

This is a really nice story, but you know who the other hero is? The CEO who gave him the time and the opportunity. He could've easily told him to fuck off, as many would do. Who was he, what's his name? More often than not, we get nowhere without people in better positions helping us, it would be great if more people would keep an open mind like that. That CEO deserves recognition. And if you manage to climb higher on the ladder, don't forget to help others like someone helped you before. Pay it forward.

rajacombinator 6y ago
Agree it’s an underrated part of the story. A CEO who was able to recognize, reward, and take a chance on someone who showed initiative and potential. A sadly rare ability in the world of CYA management.
paul7986 6y ago
I agree and was very fortunate to meet such a guy right out of college where I was studying Recording INdustry. All our teachers said good luck getting a job and I was only three out 60 that I heard got a job out of college in the field. Once I moved from Nashville to NYC for my label job I met a ton of other men and women whom this same guy gave them a chance too. That's how his career started .. he met a label head at a concert in the 80s who gave him a chance. Great guy who helped found many popular artist careers in the 90s.
- sbuccini 6y ago
  Would love to hear more details about this.
  - paul7986 6y ago
    Thank you for your interest! I'm a hobbyist songwriter but pursued it in college at Middle Tennesse State University. I learned you got to be the best of the best and then luck needs to fall onto you as it did for my songwriting classmate, Luke Laird (wrote many Carrie Underwood and country number one songs.. was best writer in class.. not sure how he got his break). During college I was able to intern at record labels and attend fun industry functions like CRS (country radio seminar), NARM and the parties that happened after each day of the event. At NARM in Orlando I went to the events during the day and then found the parties the labels held for record store (2001 when record stores existed lol) people. At one of the parties I met some executives and partied with them and then one introduced me their friend. Her friend was the guy I mentioned and we hit it off, gave him my business card and a month later he left a message on my voicemail (was back in Nashville) saying he wanted to hire me for a marketing job at RCA/Victor (jazz label ... Etta James was on it). I only lasted 6 months (he forced my boss to hire me and she hated me) in my supposed dream job in NYC, but it was a fun and interesting (witnessed the twin towers falling from Times Square in my office's 41st floor) time in my life.

fortran77 6y ago

This story is being made into a movie. The twitter thread, no doubt, is an effort to promote it. See https://www.newsweek.com/flamin-hot-cheeto-movie-true-story-creator-richard-montanez-1456377 https://www.newsweek.com/flamin-hot-cheeto-movie-true-story-... See IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8105234/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8105234/

nether 6y ago
When did it come out? Where can I see it?

alistairSH 6y ago

$18/hr adjusted for inflation. Almost a living wage back then. And unlikely to be paid today.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Janitors are able to demand $18+/hour in SoCal, plus benefits in some companies.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  You're able to demand anything you want anywhere... but you're not likely to get it.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    “Able to demand” colloquially means they are getting it.
dehrmann 6y ago
LA County minimum wage is $15 per hour for businesses with more than 25 employees.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  Rancho Cucamonga is only subject to the state minimum wage ($13 IIRC, although it probably goes further than $15 would in many of the unincorporated parts of LA county)
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    It's also 5 miles from LA county, so wages should be halfway competitive.
    - Rebelgecko 6y ago
      What's kinda funky is that the LA County minimum wage only applies to Unincorporated areas, so if you're in the city of Pomona or wherever the minimum wage is still $13

Mulpze15 6y ago

Richard Montañez has all my admiration for what he achieved. This is a beautiful story. Unfortunately, those kinds of stories also play into the narrative: be a good model employee, make sure the floors shine and trust that hard work, and great ideas will make you deservedly insanely rich. Because there are smart CEOs who will see all of that Cinderella, capitalist version. Too rare to be significant as a policy. Most likely does not scale. Too often, dreams are useful to convince people to accept their fate.

cultus 6y ago
It seems like these feel-good stories about benevolent capitalists get a little less traction now, although perhaps not in forums populated by the labor aristocracy.
dvdhnt 6y ago
> Too often, dreams are useful to convince people to accept their fate. It's sad how right you are. And it's sad how trying to educate others and acknowledge the facade puts a target on your back, then suddenly the same people who you want to help now see you as the enemy. Cheers.
troupe 6y ago
> make sure the floors shine and trust that hard work, and great ideas will make you deservedly insanely rich. Generally someone who is known for doing a good job of whatever it is that they are doing and has a lot of initiative are going to have more opportunities than someone who doesn't really care to do a good job and has no initiative. Showing up for practice doesn't mean you will be a great athlete, but not showing up is a good way to dramatically reduce your chances.
lovehashbrowns 6y ago
100% absolutely true. I respect Richard for what he did and how he has viewed things, but I am much more cynical about the world. This is likely a small exception out of hundreds of thousands of times that "the janitor" got completely screwed over, if they were even given a chance to begin with. I mean, it happens on the daily. The startup I previously worked for had this "test" API, I helped turn it into an essential API that brought the company a ton of money, and I saw 0 of it. My title got bumped, I guess. And now, I work on something even less visible. If I do something at work that saves thousands of my coworkers thousands of hours a quarter, I don't see any of that. Nor can I show it, because the higher-up management people don't know what a Jenkins is or what an Artifactory is. How do I sweep these "floors" so well that the CEO can see any of it? Even the coworkers that use my stuff directly don't give a shit because they have code to write and my improvements save them ~20 minutes a day every other day or two.

amelius 6y ago

Another way this story could have ended: CEO: Thanks for the idea! Goodbye, and don't forget your mop! (CEO shares go up by $20M) Janitor: Damn, I should have brought a lawyer. If only I had the money for one.

giarc 6y ago
My father worked for GM as a tool and die maker. They had a program once where employees could submit ideas for efficieny improvements and would get a reward of 10% of the savings (or something along those lines). There was some process whereby parts were coming off the line and 100% needed additional work for final install (I believe it was hoods of Impalas or something). My dad had proposed this change to the stamping that would have made this extra work unecessary and had calculated a savings of nearly $30 million given the number of Impalas built, the hours needed for the part and the average wage of the employee. Management blew him off and low and behold, a few months down the road he was asked to build the tooling for the change. He is not $3 million richer.
throwaway2245 6y ago
The story probably does end that way 99.9 out of 100 times. Whose interest is it in that this is the story that gets repeatedly told as inspiration?
readams 6y ago
You could be like Peter Roberts, who invented the quick release on wrenches: https://apnews.com/article/aed4a37bc719aba52db82cb96029fded#:~:text=Peter%20Roberts%20of%20Tennessee%20was,rightful%20royalties%20from%20the%20device https://apnews.com/article/aed4a37bc719aba52db82cb96029fded#.... He did eventually win his lawsuit though. 20 YEARS later.

spicyramen 6y ago

This is a good story that poses philosophical questions as what intelligence means. Regardless his social class and jobs he look for opportunities and achieved success. There is a movement in tech for underrepresented minorities. I would dispute that opportunities should be given to anybody regardless their social class race or background, just not only latinos, black or women

BoorishBears 6y ago
There is a movement in medicine to find a cure for breast cancer. I would dispute that research should be given to all cancers, regardless of the body part, not just breast, brain, or lung

huangc10 6y ago

My gf loves spicy cheetos. What a fun story to share.

cvhashim 6y ago

He only made 20mil in earnings? I feel like he got robbed. Should have started his own company and eventually sold to Frito Lay for 10x the amount he made.

Keverw 6y ago
Not sure if he was in a position for that. It's not like tech where you can just start coding in your bedroom after work. Psychical products are header and then health permits and stuff. Unless maybe he did it at events and trade shows small scale, but by time he could scale up to be in retail he'd probably be copied anyways if trying to bootstrap. Unless he could seek investments but I guess that depends on who you know. So many business ideas die in the parking lot of a bank. I watch Shark Tank from time to time and it seems like retail and food is one of the hardest things to get into. slotting fees and can be really low margin too. So maybe he could of went off on his own and done it, but part of me feels like that's a all or nothing bet. I know personally starting a food brand all by myself is not something I'd even try since it seems like a losing game to me and other businesses would be more suited for me to go after.

Glench 6y ago

Two things I haven't seen anyone mention that seem important: 1. For the one person who has "made it" economically, there are countless others that haven't, that still live in one-room houses. What about them? 2. I think it's worthwhile pointing out that the product that he created, while popular and financially successful, is a junk food that has a significant impact on the health of adults and children worldwide. We should evaluate "success" holistically, not just financially or else we miss the downstream effects of our decisions. This blindness is the same mindset that has caused climate change. That said, it's wonderful to see someone lifted out of poverty. I hope millions more have the same chance.

zpeti 6y ago
It’s sad to see that in the last 10 years this type of comment (tries to) ruin every single inspirational story. Just because there’s shit in the world doesn’t mean there isn’t beauty and greatness and awesomeness sometimes. In fact that’s what makes it wonderful. If you’re bitter and all you see is the shit, and resent any inspirational story, well, good luck to you but I definitely don’t think you’ll have a productive, or inspirational life.
- jonplackett 6y ago
  Seconded. Yeah sure it's a junk food but it's not like he invented Opium or explosives or something. Give the guy a break!
- borepop 6y ago
  I don't think the person to whom you're responding was trying to "ruin" anything, they were just pointing out a complicating fact that is objectively true, which is that Frito Lay is in the business of selling junk food. The inspirational part and the problematic part are both real things, and acknowledging one doesn't mean the other is unimportant.
  - Glench 6y ago
    wonderfully said, thank you!

pmoriarty 6y ago

This saccharine rags-to-riches, pro-corporate fairy tale makes me so sad and mad, all the more so for the unreflective adulation it has gotten.

dvdhnt 6y ago
[opinion to follow, my own] Even in 2020, while the rich get richer (literally being subsidized by COVID "relief" bills) and the poor are looking to avoid being evicted, the flood of pro-corporate defenders is never ending. It is a true downside to having such a large, albeit fragile middle-class. The fundamental premise of this story is flawed given how most board/c-suite positions are attained and how almost all wealth is acquired e.g. inherited. And HN is not immune to the rallying cry of defending billionaires and our perverted version of a "free-market" (lol). Anyway, I'm mad, too, internet stranger. I'm mad that we spend more time admiring CEOs than we do fixing real problems. Cheers and I hope you read this before the downvotes cause it to fade.
- andreilys 6y ago
  The fundamental premise of this story is flawed given how most board/c-suite positions are attained and how almost all wealth is acquired e.g. inherited. Citation needed. From a simple google search it seems 55.8% of Billionaires are "self-made" [1]. Sure some of them started off with silver spoons (i.e. Gates) but they did not inherit the billions they made from starting companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Tesla, etc. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/wealthx-billionaire-census-majority-of-worlds-billionaires-self-made.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/wealthx-billionaire-census-m...
  - orange_tee 6y ago
    Wealth accumulation is exponential so starting with "mere millions" is deceptive. The first million is the hardest.
  - Merman_Mike 6y ago
    You're comparing "almost all wealth" (from GP) to the number of people with self-made wealth, which doesn't make sense. > Taken together, much of the best available evidence suggests that the median dollar of wealth in the United States has been inherited by someone in the richest 5 percent of families. https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/02/06/people-like-estate-tax-whole-lot-more-when-they-learn-how-wealth-is-distributed/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/02/06/people-l...

kevindeasis 6y ago

Can anyone tell me about non-founder CEOs who has done a great job of creating innovative products for a company without using MAs? I'm trying to think about if there's any correlation between the two. There are some posts in HN that was about founder ceos but I cant remember the context. I'll have to go look for those

asutekku 6y ago
Non-founder ceo usually is much more restricted on time on what they can do. Founder CEO has much less strings to hold.
- kevindeasis 6y ago
  Can you tell me more about the time restriction that they have? Is that about hitting quarterly targets?

lovetocode 6y ago

There are so many stories about how flaming hot Cheetos came to be.

throwawaysea 6y ago

I applaud both the janitor for his initiative and the executive for listening and giving credit where credit is due. I feel like in big companies today, including tech companies that are overly praised for their culture, there is little room for such a story to unfold. More likely than not, someone with initiative has donated their idea and strategy to the company for free, while someone else gets put in charge of executing it, and capturing the career benefits. It’s cynical I know and I’m sure there are counterexamples, but the vast majority of attempts at such initiative don’t go anywhere.

freeopinion 6y ago

$20 million in Rancho Cucamonga. So that's like $1 million in real money, right?

goatcode 6y ago

$4.25, but close enough.

jaimex2 6y ago

Whats the punchline?

lucb1e 6y ago
Are you asking for someone to copy the last tweet to HN, or do I misunderstand your comment?

jasonhansel 6y ago

That's $18.52 an hour in today's dollars. The average pay for a janitor today is closer to $12 an hour. In fact, just a few years after 1976, janitors' wages (at least in LA) started falling sharply below the cost of living: https://socialjusticehistory.org/lalabor/workingla/archives/792 https://socialjusticehistory.org/lalabor/workingla/archives/... The fact that our economic system worked for him does not mean that it works for the vast majority of people in similar jobs. It's quite likely that some of his colleagues are now making less money (in real terms) than they were in the 70s.

maxk42 6y ago
This was in "the late 1980s". Even if we're assuming this was in 1985, $4 in 1985 is $9.36 - $9.85 today. Sources: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ https://smartasset.com/investing/inflation-calculator https://smartasset.com/investing/inflation-calculator https://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.html?cstartingamount1=4&cinyear1=1985&coutyear1=2020&calctype=1&x=96&y=26 https://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.html?cstarti...
- airza 6y ago
  The article states that the job opening was in 1976.
baron816 6y ago
The US has a lot more immigrants from Latin America living here than it did back then. Plus, unemployment is lower (even with the pandemic). I would rather have 1 million people making $12/hr and 0 unemployed and in poverty than 650k people making $18/hr with 350k just shit out of luck. I can’t say the former is what we have, but with unions or tight labor market regulation, the later tends to be closer to what you get.
- hugi 6y ago
  Yeah, know what you mean. It's a real hellscape up here in Iceland with all these unions and livable wages. We aspire to become a better and more profitable American style system.

yarnover 6y ago

“A cat may look at a king,” as the saying goes.

lucb1e 6y ago
I didn't know it. [1] says it means "even a person of low status or importance has rights". The janitor in the story has rights, like he can certainly try to call the CEO to pitch an idea. Is that what you meant to point out? I feel like I'm missing out on the profoundness. [1] https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/a+cat+may+look+at+a+king https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/a+cat+may+look+at+a+kin...

rognjen 6y ago

The person just copy pasted an article they read a while back to their Twitter. Not sure why but I really hate it.

justatdotin 6y ago

scarcity value

orange_tee 6y ago

The way this story is told, makes little sense. So he sprinkled some Mexican seasoning on plain Cheetos and gave a presentation, and they gave him $20 million for that? WTF? There's a lot left untold. Or if this is the entire story, the CEO basically decided to make this guy into a millionaire, but he didn't have to. Or this is a clever PR stunt with maybe a sprinkling of truth.

nkrisc 6y ago
No, it says he went on to be a VP and amassed $20 million fortune, not that he was given $20 million for that one idea on the spot. So presumably that's how much he worth now.
542458 6y ago
The insight isn’t “add some spices to cheetos”. It’s “you’re ignoring the entire Latin market, and we have different preferences in food than you do, and here’s what those preferences are, and here’s an example product for that.”

hmwhy 6y ago

This story really stuck with me when I came across it here[0] last year because of the way it's written. As a few have pointed out, the Twitter messages are just "paraphrasing" the article if you put it nicely. Putting a few references after doing the original sources injustice by telling just half of the story doesn't make it okay either. Is this some kind of new tactic to grow your audience? I was raised to be honest, I worked in industries the consequences of being dishonest is supposedly absolutely unacceptable, but in most cases people who are dishonest usually get further ahead than most with little to no punishments. Seeing this get so much attention is very demoralising. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20227175

thatguy0900 6y ago
I think you just have to be honest for the sake of your pride. The world hardly punishes dishonest people itself.

person_of_color 6y ago

Related: It's funny how people are happy with <$1mn FAANG salary when there's oodles to be made fulfilling untapped markets.

vmurthy 6y ago

Lovely story and kudos to both Montanez (the janitor) and the company for their success but I can't help notice a bit of survivorship bias in these kind of stories. How many thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of such ideas come to people at all levels in all companies and how many turn out to be duds is never covered. Although the story made me feel good, I can't really draw any lessons from it I'm afraid.

k_sze 6y ago
I think the lesson is that if you take the chance, then there is a chance. If you don't take the chance, then there is no chance.

cbanek 6y ago

> So Montañez assembled a small team of family members and friends, went to the test markets, and bought every bag of Hot Cheetos he could find. Well, that would certainly make them sell better, but doesn't exactly make it an accurate test? I think I've heard of other companies doing this, although usually it's to inflate revenue and growth numbers pitching to investors or space in stores. I want to say some company did this recently but I can't remember exactly who. But don't get me wrong, I love me some flaming hot cheetos and it's a great feeling story. Although I also remember the Wire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyg_v7Vxo4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyg_v7Vxo4A

civilized 6y ago
He juiced the sales to make sure the product didn't get killed prematurely. Anyone who came from his background and got that opportunity would have thought to do the same

Vaslo 6y ago

Unfortunately my experience has been when a CEO is asking you to “act like an owner” it is code for “spend less” and “work more.” The subject of this article had an advantage because he took things quite literally and hadn’t heard the BS before. 3G Capital also uses the “act like an owner” code - the problem is that their employees cut a bunch stuff and they cut a bunch of their employees.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Yes, it’s always act like an owner, accept pay like a serf.

bluedino 6y ago

“Inventing a new snack” and coming up with a idea for a flavor for an existing snack are two different things. Also, I imagine that a couple food scientists in a lab came up with the actual flavors.

CrazyStat 6y ago
Montañez took home unflavored cheetos, created a spice mix at home with his wife, and pitched the cheetos coated in his spice mix to the CEO and senior executives. I imagine the final recipe was not the same as his home spice mix, but not giving him credit for the flavor is silly.

taasgbv 6y ago

"...and that's why capitalism works!" Trash piece funded by the AEI.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sam1r 6y ago

Where else can one read end-to-end discovery articles as such? Anything better than regex title filters "* how by "

gnicholas 6y ago

> So Montañez assembled a small team of family members and friends, went to the test markets, and bought every bag of Hot Cheetos he could find. Sounds like Hampton Creek's mayo shenanigans: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-hampton-creek-just-mayo/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-hampton-creek-just-m...

11235813213455 6y ago

I understand that from an economical perspective, this is brilliant, but the natural part of myself also think that this kinda of junk food is ruining this planet. Its more or less directly the cause of most pollution troubles (over-consumerism, transports, .., at the expense of organic local "good" food)

anshumankmr 6y ago
You can choose not to eat it. And plus, a bag of chips once in a while doesn't hurt anyone unless you are allergic to it or a heart patient perhaps.
- kfrncs 6y ago
  The plastic hurts _a lot_ of animals. And the microplastics are hurting us too.
- 11235813213455 6y ago
  If most people made this good choice to not eat it, then this article wouldn't exist