5 ms·

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous advice.

by yudlejoza 6y ago

tptacek 6y ago
It's the plot of a movie that nobody on this thread wants to watch, but that doesn't make it bad advice.
- senko 6y ago
  Advising to give up while there's still room to negotiate sounds like bad advice. At the worst, OP could turn this into a learning excercise on how to negotiate in a tough situation, with zero downside compared to the advice given here. This doesn't have to be a protracted legal battle, but reading up on documents they signed, figuring out their proiories (continue in biz? get at least some value out? etc) and negotiating in good faith is something that might come very handy later, in another startup, with much more to lose.
  - tptacek 6y ago
    I think negotiation is good, if you're realistic about it, and if you actually value what you're likely to get from it. And I agree, they should quickly find an answer to whether they can be fired by their partner (they probably can, for reasons stated elsewhere on the thread, but it's very much worth getting a solid answer).
    - senko 6y ago
      Agree completely. It's not me, but if it were, I'd approach the getting fired problem with "look, I build this. You can fire me, but you don't have money for adequate dev and average Joe will run it into the ground in two months. Your greed will make you lose everything", and also approach the investor (if they're hands on) with the same rationale. Also agree with the point you made elsewhere - this can get gut wrenching (even without any lawyers getting involved) and if you're prone to dwell on negative thoughts, pretty damaging to your morale through the duration. Money spent fighting is not the only downside.
      - s1artibartfast 6y ago
        The downside here is what happens after trust is broken... You end up working for another 12 months at the company pro-bono, then get canned 1 month before your next cliff vesting. I would take 10% for the first year of service and walk with it, not expecting anything. The angel put in 100K for 10%, and you worked for a year for 10%. very simple.
- xwdv 6y ago
  It's meek advice that feels good to people who are scared of loud voices shouting at them.
- rayiner 6y ago
  I LOL-ed.
MisterBastahrd 6y ago
I would burn the entire thing to the ground and piss on its smoldering ashes before I would allow someone to take advantage of 11 months of my work just because he thinks he can make more money for himself if he positions himself as a solo founder.
- tptacek 6y ago
  "I would spend $15,000 of my own money and 8 more months of my life during which I deed control of my adrenal system to this stupid controversy and get little else done, and ultimately reach at best the same outcome as I'd have achieved walking away amicably, less expenses, before I would allow someone to take advantage of 11 months of my work".
  - newen 6y ago
    People talk about how a startup being successful is 90% luck and you want OP to walk away from a successful startup and try again.
    - idlewords 6y ago
      Their main claims to success based on OP's description are that they show up in search engine results and are only $60K in the red. If that's success in 2020 then I can launch a dozen successful startups by January 1.
      - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
        They said they have 60k users. If you can acquire 12 * 60,000 = 720,000 users for 720k in less than a week I think you'll have a lot of people beating down your door.
    - valuearb 6y ago
      Successful??? They don’t have the revenues to hire a single employee!
  - ownagefool 6y ago
artemonster 6y ago
on a side note: what is the amount of karma required to be able to downvote on HN?
- TenJack 6y ago
  500 I believe.
- jxm262 6y ago
  Think I got mine around 500, iirc
- ayewo 6y ago
  It’s a karma of 501 not 500 to downvote. https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented/blob/master/README.md#downvoting-comments https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented/blob/m...
  - artemonster 6y ago
    Thanks for the link. Genuinely confused about the downvotes for the parent comment, because such info should be present somewher on the YC site, IMHO.
dbnoch 6y ago
the sad part is that they are right. I was in a similar situation and there really is nothing you can do. They don't own the majority share of the company to make the decision. It's honestly a terrible situation
elpatoisthebest 6y ago
Why do you say that?

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous advice.

tptacek 6y ago

It's the plot of a movie that nobody on this thread wants to watch, but that doesn't make it bad advice.

senko 6y ago
Advising to give up while there's still room to negotiate sounds like bad advice. At the worst, OP could turn this into a learning excercise on how to negotiate in a tough situation, with zero downside compared to the advice given here. This doesn't have to be a protracted legal battle, but reading up on documents they signed, figuring out their proiories (continue in biz? get at least some value out? etc) and negotiating in good faith is something that might come very handy later, in another startup, with much more to lose.
- tptacek 6y ago
  I think negotiation is good, if you're realistic about it, and if you actually value what you're likely to get from it. And I agree, they should quickly find an answer to whether they can be fired by their partner (they probably can, for reasons stated elsewhere on the thread, but it's very much worth getting a solid answer).
  - senko 6y ago
    Agree completely. It's not me, but if it were, I'd approach the getting fired problem with "look, I build this. You can fire me, but you don't have money for adequate dev and average Joe will run it into the ground in two months. Your greed will make you lose everything", and also approach the investor (if they're hands on) with the same rationale. Also agree with the point you made elsewhere - this can get gut wrenching (even without any lawyers getting involved) and if you're prone to dwell on negative thoughts, pretty damaging to your morale through the duration. Money spent fighting is not the only downside.
    - s1artibartfast 6y ago
      The downside here is what happens after trust is broken... You end up working for another 12 months at the company pro-bono, then get canned 1 month before your next cliff vesting. I would take 10% for the first year of service and walk with it, not expecting anything. The angel put in 100K for 10%, and you worked for a year for 10%. very simple.
xwdv 6y ago
It's meek advice that feels good to people who are scared of loud voices shouting at them.
rayiner 6y ago
I LOL-ed.

MisterBastahrd 6y ago

I would burn the entire thing to the ground and piss on its smoldering ashes before I would allow someone to take advantage of 11 months of my work just because he thinks he can make more money for himself if he positions himself as a solo founder.

tptacek 6y ago
"I would spend $15,000 of my own money and 8 more months of my life during which I deed control of my adrenal system to this stupid controversy and get little else done, and ultimately reach at best the same outcome as I'd have achieved walking away amicably, less expenses, before I would allow someone to take advantage of 11 months of my work".
- newen 6y ago
  People talk about how a startup being successful is 90% luck and you want OP to walk away from a successful startup and try again.
  - idlewords 6y ago
    Their main claims to success based on OP's description are that they show up in search engine results and are only $60K in the red. If that's success in 2020 then I can launch a dozen successful startups by January 1.
    - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
      They said they have 60k users. If you can acquire 12 * 60,000 = 720,000 users for 720k in less than a week I think you'll have a lot of people beating down your door.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Successful??? They don’t have the revenues to hire a single employee!
- ownagefool 6y ago

artemonster 6y ago

on a side note: what is the amount of karma required to be able to downvote on HN?

TenJack 6y ago
500 I believe.
jxm262 6y ago
Think I got mine around 500, iirc
ayewo 6y ago
It’s a karma of 501 not 500 to downvote. https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented/blob/master/README.md#downvoting-comments https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented/blob/m...
- artemonster 6y ago
  Thanks for the link. Genuinely confused about the downvotes for the parent comment, because such info should be present somewher on the YC site, IMHO.

dbnoch 6y ago

the sad part is that they are right. I was in a similar situation and there really is nothing you can do. They don't own the majority share of the company to make the decision. It's honestly a terrible situation

elpatoisthebest 6y ago

Why do you say that?