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I think a more useful NATO against China would be something like a NATO for free-speech. Norway gets punished economically for awarding a Nobel prize to a Chine

by schuke 6y ago

I think a more useful NATO against China would be something like a NATO for free-speech. Norway gets punished economically for awarding a Nobel prize to a Chinese dissident. It really can't fight back unless all free-speech loving countries retaliate together.

DetroitThrow 6y ago
There should be a political union of liberal democratic countries that favors trade deals and military alliances with one another - there's not a great counter against the slow rise of authoritarianism abroad. A less US centered axis centered around the G7 could be a good start, though developing democracies should certainly get a seat at the table and be rewarded for protecting democratic values.
- nradov 6y ago
  Nice idea but even the liberal democracies have huge political differences on sensitive issues like fishing rights, oil drilling, and agricultural subsidies.
  - DetroitThrow 6y ago
    Sure, but the overall security of liberal democracy and the rights/freedoms commonly enshrined themselves are probably a fundamental shared interest, yes? While an economic union similar to the EU with common treaties you describe is likely non-viable across all liberal democracies, there are trade interests between them and certainly security/defense interests.
bilbo0s 6y ago
The reason this doesn't happen, is because there are not a lot of free speech loving nations out there. You going to exclude Germany, and have them align with China instead? It doesn't make much sense at the geopolitical scale. (I know that some would even say there are no nations who believe in free speech. It's just that the subjects that cause police and military in each nation to clamp down on speech are different depending on the society.) The lines are just very difficult to draw. If you exclude Germany on principle, would other EU nations still cooperate with you? It just gets messy.
tpush 6y ago
I think you overestimate how much 'free speech' is an ideal shared by all NATO countries.
silicon2401 6y ago
unfortunately free speech is losing support rapidly these days.

by schuke 6y ago

DetroitThrow 6y ago

There should be a political union of liberal democratic countries that favors trade deals and military alliances with one another - there's not a great counter against the slow rise of authoritarianism abroad. A less US centered axis centered around the G7 could be a good start, though developing democracies should certainly get a seat at the table and be rewarded for protecting democratic values.

nradov 6y ago
Nice idea but even the liberal democracies have huge political differences on sensitive issues like fishing rights, oil drilling, and agricultural subsidies.
- DetroitThrow 6y ago
  Sure, but the overall security of liberal democracy and the rights/freedoms commonly enshrined themselves are probably a fundamental shared interest, yes? While an economic union similar to the EU with common treaties you describe is likely non-viable across all liberal democracies, there are trade interests between them and certainly security/defense interests.

bilbo0s 6y ago

The reason this doesn't happen, is because there are not a lot of free speech loving nations out there. You going to exclude Germany, and have them align with China instead? It doesn't make much sense at the geopolitical scale. (I know that some would even say there are no nations who believe in free speech. It's just that the subjects that cause police and military in each nation to clamp down on speech are different depending on the society.) The lines are just very difficult to draw. If you exclude Germany on principle, would other EU nations still cooperate with you? It just gets messy.

tpush 6y ago

I think you overestimate how much 'free speech' is an ideal shared by all NATO countries.

silicon2401 6y ago

unfortunately free speech is losing support rapidly these days.