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Suspicions grow that nanoparticles in Pfizer vaccine trigger allergic reactions
- jdminhbg 6y agoAs anecdotes like this inevitably pile up, we're going to really regret all the "long Covid" coverage.
- DyslexicAtheist 6y agoSlavoj Zizek[0] a few months ago correctly predicted it'll get much worse with anti vax conspiracies, once the first person (in good public standing[1]) publicly faints or has some other bad reaction (fake or not) and that it will cause lots of conspiracies. [0] sadly I can't find the video/source [1] last case of somebody fainting was a nurse. probably doesn't matter what "public standing", but it gives people not understanding cause-effect further validation of their insane-hypothesis
- jacquesm 6y agoShe apparently had that reaction before and it's quite common.
- jdminhbg 6y agoI believe this is both true and irrelevant. The claim is that conspiracies will be birthed, not that the vaccine is actually dangerous.
- jacquesm 6y agoThey will be regardless. But that's no reason to increase that.
- endgame 6y agoWhy on earth would you put a fainting-prone nurse on TV when you're trying to convince everyone the vaccine is safe?
- jacquesm 6y agoYes, that wasn't the smartest thing. Also not of her to not raise this point beforehand.
- tomatocracy 6y agoI can well believe that. When I was in my early 20s, I fainted when I was given a tetanus booster in hospital after getting a relatively nasty cut which needed stitches. I'm not in the slightest bit scared of needles/etc, hadn't lost much blood or skipped meals and was a fit and healthy young man. The nurse at the time told me it was very common and why they stayed for 5 minutes or so after giving me the injection. I've had a fair few other injections since then and not had it happen again.
- olliej 6y ago"at least 8 people", later 6 cases in 272,001. Or 0.002% vs 0.1% of the US population dead [1], let alone infect or suffering long term injury due to covid. I don't know about you, but given a allergic reaction being 50x less likely that dying, I'll take the vaccine. [1] 316k dead (https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100k...) vs 330 million total population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta...) == 0.1% of the population dead by covid.
- otabdeveloper4 6y ago> suffering long term injury due to covid Is there any evidence for this except for fake news sites? I mean, yes, any sickness can potentially cause 'long term injury' - stroke as a consequence of the common cold is very common, for example - but do we have any evidence that Covid-19 is any worse in this regard than regular coronaviruses, rhinoviruses or influenza?
- bostik 6y agoYes, "long Covid" is a thing. There are several reported cases in the UK, with around 2% of patients taking months to recover.[0] In effect, while it takes couple of weeks of potentially intensive treatment to tackle covid-19 infection, a notable fragment of survivors suffer longer-term consequences that so far have lasted for months. Early cases hinted at lung tissue scarring being the driver, but more recently the cases look to be from more varied after-effects. One might question whether a time window of months is sufficient to qualify as "long term", but let's keep in mind this virus has been known for only a year. 0: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/15/long-covid-what-we-know-so-far https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/15/long-covid-wha...
- jacquesm 6y agoAnecdote: 3 weeks very ill, 6 months recovery in my case, and still every now and then days where I'm completely useless physically. For someone who is normally classed as 'hyperactive' the change in my life is remarkable. I'd love to have my old energy levels back.
- JohnJamesRambo 6y agoThe use of the term "nanoparticle", is going to freak people out when PEG (polyethylene glycol) is one of the most used substances in the world.
- sneak 6y agoIt's not very commonly used internally, however.
- gumby 6y agoIt sure is, as it's on the GRAS list. I used it as an inert carrier in an injectable drug I worked on a decade ago and everyone else on the project had used it in other projects before. It's a polymer so is synthesized and then separated into different molecular weights. I believe that only some of which are actually GRAS. I don't know about the tiny chains discussed here.
- White_Wolf 6y agoIf I remember this well It's one of 2 main components of electronic cig liquid. Not sure what the chemical reaction does to it when it turn into vapour though.
- guerrilla 6y agoThis is correct, the other is glycerine ("VG"). PEG ("PG") is also used in food by the way. And yeah as far as I know nobody knows what the "vaping" process does yet.
- Asparagirl 6y agoOh yes it is. Polyethylene glycol is sold widely as Miralax! Half the people in my own household use it regularly to...well, stay regular.
- stevesimmons 6y ago> Half the people in my own household use it regularly to...well, stay regular. Do they have a medical condition or old age? Or just don't eat enough vegetables and fibre?
- jcims 6y agoI wonder if they can titrate the dose a bit to limit the scale of the reaction. Or just do a reaction test to PEG before dosing.
- calcifer 6y agoIn the UK, according to the released documentation, recipients are monitored for allergic reactions (anaphylaxis) for several minutes after receiving the first dose and staff are trained to react quickly. Anyone with a reaction to the first dose won't be given the second.
- kmonsen 6y agoThis has also been confirmed for Norway, but is already standard for most vaccinations. Some minor short term reaction is common.
- glitchcrab 6y agoThis is correct, here in the UK everyone is observed for 15 minutes after receiving the first dose.
- switch007 6y agoI read that the 15 minute observation requirement is causing various GPs to turn down the work because they don’t have that kind of time. Presumably it was never expected for all GPs to accept the work but I wonder how widespread it is and what impact it’ll have on the bigger goal.
- zetazzed 6y agoThis vaccine rollout will have post-approval surveillance - detailed tracking of side effects, sent back to the FDA and CDC for monitoring. Surprisingly, this is not required of all drugs, but it is considered one of the most effective ways of really tracking down such issues. It provides some compromise between the "keep doing a million more trials until every possible concern is wiped out, even if people are dying waiting for this drug" and "just throw it out there and cross your fingers" polar opposites that many worry about. Nice to see! https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772137 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772137
- pndy 6y agoPoland will soon start vaccinating its population along with rest of the EU; govt site reports that 5 formulas will be purchased along with the information that there's going to be a fund for people with adverse vaccine reactions. Tho, no details how this would work is described atm. I'm bit curious how handling different formulas will work in the reality.
- Kuraj 6y agoIs there a timeline? Last time I checked it said it would take almost a year to vaccinate the high risk group, let alone the rest of the population, which would mean I might be able to get my shot in 2022 if I'm lucky.
- scrollaway 6y agoA year to vaccinate the high risk group sounds way overblown. Maybe it's taking into account people who won't accept it right away? The vaccine is being rationed because of high demand. The moment demand drops, it no longer makes sense to ration it the same way. Also keep in mind that distribution speed will increase over time as procedures and protocols are put in place and learned by everyone. I suspect the majority of people who want to be vaccinated in europe will have their shot by september 2021. This is all off napkin math though.
- Kuraj 6y agoThanks, this puts my mind at ease a bit.
- godmode2019 6y ago"Some allergists and immunologists believe a small number of people previously exposed to PEG may have high levels of antibodies against PEG, putting them at risk of an anaphylactic reaction to the vaccine." That would explain the second follow up shot causing more issues than the first.
- pilsetnieks 6y agoWhat does "previously exposed" mean in this context? Looking at its list of uses[1], literally almost the entire population of the planet has been exposed in some way or other. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_glycol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_glycol
- godmode2019 6y agoI'm no expert but one would assume if you wore makeup everyday a small amount of people would get a high enough dose for the body to respond. They use use this chemical in drugs, later down in the article is describes a drug trial using this chemical were some people got sick. Maybe people who entered the trial do this often, like joey from friends. My underground things need to be "inside" for the body to start a immune response. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
- vixen99 6y agohttps://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(16)30605-4/pdf https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(16)30605-4/pdf 'The strong association of IgG antiPEG antibodies with severe allergic reactions is consistent with the growing interest in IgG-mediated anaphylaxis'. However, the study relates to a very specific version of the polymer.
- CyanLite2 6y agoThe social media hysteria when someone dies is going to be unbearable. And no, I don't think the vaccine is dangerous, but if you vaccinate 100 million people in a short time frame, something bad is ordinarily going to happen. Ex: "My 97-year old Uncle Bob took the vaccine and all I know is 3 days later he died of heart failure."
- tilolebo 6y ago"Pfizer’s and Moderna’s clinical trials of the vaccines, which involved tens of thousands of people, did not find serious adverse events caused by the vaccine. But both studies excluded people with a history of allergies to components of the COVID-19 vaccines; Pfizer also excluded those who previously had a severe adverse reaction from any vaccine. People with previous allergic reactions to food or drugs were not excluded, but may have been underrepresented." Is this the regular procedure for vaccines clinical trials?
- joachimma 6y agoYes, young and strong, male (to avoid risk of pregnancy)
- spacehome 6y agoIt’s 2020. Men can get pregnant.
- sydd 6y agoThis is a gross overstatement. They excluded a very tiny part of the population (my guess is under 0.1%), nowadays you cant find a material that no one is allergic to.
- vanderZwan 6y agoThe question GP answered was whether this was normal procedure for vaccine trials, not what happened during this particular one.
- kolinko 6y agoPfitzer and Moderna vaccines were tested on both males and females.
- agsamek 6y agoYou can start with any group. After a successful study, you have a product for this specific group. Afterwards you can broaden the group having enough money for a more detailed study.
- esalman 6y agoThose 6 out of 272k people, who exhibited allergic reaction to the vaccine, do they have allergic reaction to the common products like toothpaste and shampoo as well? I did not find that information in the article, but feels like it should be a no-brainer question to ask.
- u02sgb 6y agoI think two of the people who reacted in the UK carried Epi-pens. So, yes.
- mdturnerphys 6y agoThose are probably for food allergies, not allergies to cosmetics.
- nomercy400 6y agoWhat about the Oxford vaccine? Does that have these PEGs?
- chairmanwow1 6y agoHonestly I’m kinda unnerved that this clear clickbait has made it to the front page of HN. 6 out 272k people experienced this reaction. Given the recent accusations levered against foreign powers for amplifying fake news in the US, I can’t help but wonder if this story has similarly sinister origins.
- fellow_human 6y agoAlso amusing that the HN title omitted the word "rare" from the title of the original article (and is the only change). Can't help but feel there was a specific intent behind that decision.
- codeulike 6y agoPerhaps low key subtle competition between vaccine manufacturers? At least 5 in play, more coming soon, lots at stake
- codeulike 6y agoAdd the 500,000 in the UK that have had the pfizer vaccine in the last 3 weeks. 8/750,000 = 0.00106%
- bsd44 6y ago"Honestly I’m kinda unnerved that this clear clickbait has made it to the front page of HN. 6 out 272k people experienced this reaction." Only X amount of Y population feel the consequences of contracting C19. Most of us have been perfectly fine. So what is your point?
- oblio 6y agoLet's compare and contrast, shall we? M (where M is very small) out of N (where N is very large) people have experienced an allergic reaction due to the vaccine (allergic reactions can be bad, but are generally manageable). X (where is is somewhat small) out of Y (where N is not super large) have died contracting C19. Another Z (which is small, but not as small as X) out of Y are facing long term consequences contracting C19 (and these consequences are more severe than an allergic reaction in many cases). So, which one is the intellectually disingenuous argument?
- jonnypotty 6y agoSo this shit is gonna make it to the top of all news sites without and statistical qualification. What a surprise.