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You're not failing to explain anything, what you're explaining isn't a hard concept and everyone understands what you're saying. We're just saying: it doesn't w

You're not failing to explain anything, what you're explaining isn't a hard concept and everyone understands what you're saying. We're just saying: it doesn't work/nor does it make sense. > Allowing student loans to be resolved through bankruptcy after 10-15 years is enough time so that most graduates have assets, and are probably looking for a mortgage on a home in the near future. Going through bankruptcy at 30 or 35 is a much bigger deal than doing so at 21. In this situation, the student can't easily exploit the lender. But at the same time the lender still has the potential for loss if they try to loan to a student studying basket weaving at a university with a 98% acceptance rate. So instead of trying to solve the problem of crushing student debt, we let people at 30-35 tank their credit score so they can never buy anything again. So we're doing NOTHING for people 22-30, and we're ruining the 30+ year old's credit so they can't actually buy a house. It doesn't help anyone. That's our point. It does nothing to solve any real problem, it just makes everything worse.

manfredo 6y ago
Yes, the 30+ year olds have to make the tough decision of defaulting on their loans and severely limiting their ability to secure loans in the future, vs. continuing to work towards paying off their student loans. If there was no repercussion to defaulting on loans why would anyone ever pay off a loan? This is precisely why it makes sense to restrict ability to default on student loans for a certain duration. Even if you have six figure salary as a new grad, it'd still make sense to default on your student loans immediately after graduation and plan your life around having a terrible credit score until your 30s. Pay for cars in cash, and don't plan on buying a house until one's 30s. Everyone would do this because it's basically getting money for free. And consequently nobody would issue student loans, even to students going to good schools and studying in demand majors, because students can effectively just walk away from the loans. Yes, it's not doing anything for people 22-30. This is deliberate. The point is to make sure students who can pay off their loans do pay off their loans. We make recipients of student loans wait until 30-35 to be able to default on loans so that only the ones who are genuinely stuck with loans they can't pay off go through with the default. Yes, their credit score will tank. But that's the consequence of defaulting on a loan. If you could default on a loan without impacting your credit score, you'd be a fool not to default on every loan you have right now - but you wouldn't actually have any loans because nobody would lend money under sucha scenario.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > If there was no repercussion to defaulting on loans why would anyone ever pay off a loan? > Are you joking? Do you not realize that any current problems were caused by the current system? What's even more telling is how that all happened when I was in school, prior to my JR year defaulting on student debt was what most did when they got to the professional levels and secured a decent job--and this was back when university costs were much lower and more broadly available, too. I've had several boomer aged physicians/surgeons/anesthesiologists/lawyers laugh about it when I was in motorsports and told us to explore it despite the stigma as it 'paid in the end.' In many ways I think this predatory model of extracting wealth from the youth is not only short sighted its absurd; reducing the quality of life with underemployment/unemployment creates lost generations like they have in Japan, and unless the goal is to lower the population at all costs then not much 'good' comes out of it except Zombie banks, high national//coprprate debt ratios, mass impoverishment of Society as a whole and suicide as proved by the last 30 years of Japanese Sociological observations. Then again, some study using Machine Learning was stated to have had 'break through' results identifying India was not in poverty, only to see that Apple factory workers were paid $7/month instead of the ~$100 and proceeded to smash the factory. Are people still in doubt we live in a Dystopic Cyberpunk existence already? Its not just an overly hyped game, its clear to see we've been in one for over a decade now. Its just not all neon, robotic enhancements and flying cars; everything else seems to be lock step with the genre from an untouchable Corporate Class, decaying environment, to poor living standards, wide spread disease and poverty.
imtringued 6y ago
Are you joking? Do you not realize that any current problems were caused by the current system? >So instead of trying to solve the problem of crushing student debt, we let people at 30-35 tank their credit score so they can never buy anything again. Seriously. The inability to discharge debt is the primary source of crushing debt. Predatory lenders can turn you into a debt slave through student loans and you have zero recourse. Since student loans are guaranteed by the government it doesn't matter to the lender whether you are able to pay the loan back or not. They can just give a $100k loan to someone who is 100% going to drop out. It doesn't even have to be your fault. Universities are incentivized to spend money on student retention and basically zero money on actual education. >So we're doing NOTHING for people 22-30, and we're ruining the 30+ year old's credit so they can't actually buy a house. It doesn't help anyone. That's our point. It does nothing to solve any real problem, it just makes everything worse. Except lenders are not going to hand out $100k loans willy nilly anymore. They will actually have to look at what and where you are studying. If students can discharge their debt then it's possible for lenders to make losses and do you know what businesses hate the most? Damn losses. Those losses will have to be covered higher interest rates and do you know what happens when people are faced with greater interest rates? The maximum principal they can borrow shrinks and there will be no more infinite flood of money that inflates tuition costs year by year. What about people that can't afford the loans? They can always choose a cheaper degree. If getting a CS, EE, civil engineering, law, medicine, whatever degree improves your employment chances so that you can pay off your loan without trouble the interest rates are going to be way down and thereby make it extremely obvious which degrees and schools are the most lucrative. You'll be able to measure the quality of a college and its degrees by the interest rates the lenders charge and even in the worst case you can get rid of the loan trivially. Collges will be able to make money off of good education instead of just admitting as many students as possible by luring them in with an expensive lifestyle. It's funny how Americans keep telling me about the advantages of hire and fire and how it increases economic efficiency while simultaneously they have the most socialized private education industry on the entire planet which means they get none of the benefits of socialized education and none of the benefits of private education. Seriously your current system is so broken even abolishing it completely without a replacement would still lead to better outcomes than whatever crap you currently have.

manfredo 6y ago

Yes, the 30+ year olds have to make the tough decision of defaulting on their loans and severely limiting their ability to secure loans in the future, vs. continuing to work towards paying off their student loans. If there was no repercussion to defaulting on loans why would anyone ever pay off a loan? This is precisely why it makes sense to restrict ability to default on student loans for a certain duration. Even if you have six figure salary as a new grad, it'd still make sense to default on your student loans immediately after graduation and plan your life around having a terrible credit score until your 30s. Pay for cars in cash, and don't plan on buying a house until one's 30s. Everyone would do this because it's basically getting money for free. And consequently nobody would issue student loans, even to students going to good schools and studying in demand majors, because students can effectively just walk away from the loans. Yes, it's not doing anything for people 22-30. This is deliberate. The point is to make sure students who can pay off their loans do pay off their loans. We make recipients of student loans wait until 30-35 to be able to default on loans so that only the ones who are genuinely stuck with loans they can't pay off go through with the default. Yes, their credit score will tank. But that's the consequence of defaulting on a loan. If you could default on a loan without impacting your credit score, you'd be a fool not to default on every loan you have right now - but you wouldn't actually have any loans because nobody would lend money under sucha scenario.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> If there was no repercussion to defaulting on loans why would anyone ever pay off a loan? > Are you joking? Do you not realize that any current problems were caused by the current system? What's even more telling is how that all happened when I was in school, prior to my JR year defaulting on student debt was what most did when they got to the professional levels and secured a decent job--and this was back when university costs were much lower and more broadly available, too. I've had several boomer aged physicians/surgeons/anesthesiologists/lawyers laugh about it when I was in motorsports and told us to explore it despite the stigma as it 'paid in the end.' In many ways I think this predatory model of extracting wealth from the youth is not only short sighted its absurd; reducing the quality of life with underemployment/unemployment creates lost generations like they have in Japan, and unless the goal is to lower the population at all costs then not much 'good' comes out of it except Zombie banks, high national//coprprate debt ratios, mass impoverishment of Society as a whole and suicide as proved by the last 30 years of Japanese Sociological observations. Then again, some study using Machine Learning was stated to have had 'break through' results identifying India was not in poverty, only to see that Apple factory workers were paid $7/month instead of the ~$100 and proceeded to smash the factory. Are people still in doubt we live in a Dystopic Cyberpunk existence already? Its not just an overly hyped game, its clear to see we've been in one for over a decade now. Its just not all neon, robotic enhancements and flying cars; everything else seems to be lock step with the genre from an untouchable Corporate Class, decaying environment, to poor living standards, wide spread disease and poverty.

imtringued 6y ago

Are you joking? Do you not realize that any current problems were caused by the current system? >So instead of trying to solve the problem of crushing student debt, we let people at 30-35 tank their credit score so they can never buy anything again. Seriously. The inability to discharge debt is the primary source of crushing debt. Predatory lenders can turn you into a debt slave through student loans and you have zero recourse. Since student loans are guaranteed by the government it doesn't matter to the lender whether you are able to pay the loan back or not. They can just give a $100k loan to someone who is 100% going to drop out. It doesn't even have to be your fault. Universities are incentivized to spend money on student retention and basically zero money on actual education. >So we're doing NOTHING for people 22-30, and we're ruining the 30+ year old's credit so they can't actually buy a house. It doesn't help anyone. That's our point. It does nothing to solve any real problem, it just makes everything worse. Except lenders are not going to hand out $100k loans willy nilly anymore. They will actually have to look at what and where you are studying. If students can discharge their debt then it's possible for lenders to make losses and do you know what businesses hate the most? Damn losses. Those losses will have to be covered higher interest rates and do you know what happens when people are faced with greater interest rates? The maximum principal they can borrow shrinks and there will be no more infinite flood of money that inflates tuition costs year by year. What about people that can't afford the loans? They can always choose a cheaper degree. If getting a CS, EE, civil engineering, law, medicine, whatever degree improves your employment chances so that you can pay off your loan without trouble the interest rates are going to be way down and thereby make it extremely obvious which degrees and schools are the most lucrative. You'll be able to measure the quality of a college and its degrees by the interest rates the lenders charge and even in the worst case you can get rid of the loan trivially. Collges will be able to make money off of good education instead of just admitting as many students as possible by luring them in with an expensive lifestyle. It's funny how Americans keep telling me about the advantages of hire and fire and how it increases economic efficiency while simultaneously they have the most socialized private education industry on the entire planet which means they get none of the benefits of socialized education and none of the benefits of private education. Seriously your current system is so broken even abolishing it completely without a replacement would still lead to better outcomes than whatever crap you currently have.