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I'm not sure I see that. Clearly they are good at making computer like things, but it's not like they're God's gift to supply chain management. There's been q

by treis 6y ago

I'm not sure I see that. Clearly they are good at making computer like things, but it's not like they're God's gift to supply chain management. There's been quite a few mistakes over the years. Hard to see them doing better than car companies that have been building cars for decades. I'm also not sure what Apple's edge here is. At this point all I really want out of an entertainment center is a screen for my phone to plug into. Everything else is better done as knobs and buttons.

sneak 6y ago
> Everything else is better done as knobs and buttons. Apple is quite good at knobs and buttons, and what may eventually become interior finishes.
- function_seven 6y ago
  When they decide to implement a hardware control, it's usually done well. But their records is hit-and-miss in my opinion. Good: iPod click wheel, iPhone side buttons/switches, old chiclet keyboards, trackpad. Bad: Butterfly keyboards, AppleTV remote is awful (swipes and edge-clicks for all sorts of things), their mice have always been a pain to use (wanna right click? Better lift your left finger completely away from the mouse) But they also aggressively remove physical interfaces where possible. One-button mice, removal of home button on iPhone, removal of function keys on MacBooks, etc. I hope they don't do that with a car. There should be a dozen knobs and buttons that have dedicated features. Not just wipers and signals either. I'm talking about volume control, seat adjustments, windows, etc.
  - daniellarusso 6y ago
    I look forward to steering and shifting gears with a multipoint touchscreen, don’t you?
  - chipotle_coyote 6y ago
    I hadn't thought about this until your comment. While I think Apple building a car is... dubious (both the idea that they would and that they should even if they can), I'd been thinking "well, at least Apple is good at UI," but I really don't like Tesla-esque touchscreen-for-everything auto interfaces, and that would be a serious temptation for Apple.
    - enos_feedler 6y ago
      I think Apple is smart enough to do marker research on this. Tesla used a big tablet to cheap out. Apple is not going to cheap out
  - selectodude 6y ago
    A volume knob thats a blown up version of the wheel on the Apple Watch would be something.
    - function_seven 6y ago
      Yes. That crown is really nice. Apple is good at tactile, when they want to be. I just hope they agree that eyes-on-road interactions will require more of that, and less of the touchscreen-only stuff. They probably will. One way to look at it is how much they care about accessibility on iOS. If they put that much effort into those features there, then nailing those details in a car will be natural.
      - enos_feedler 6y ago
        I think Apple is doing car exactly because we should be looking at the road. I am sure their AR technology will be incorporated into windshield head up display
0xEFF 6y ago
> I'm also not sure what Apple's edge here is. At this point all I really want out of an entertainment center is a screen for my phone to plug into. Apple has been doing CarPlay for years. If they do at least as well with the rest of the interior they’ll have an edge over most luxury cars today.
- capableweb 6y ago
  I don't think CarPlay is ahead what anyone else is doing, Android Auto works in reality much better than CarPlay, at least with my car. The UX of CarPlay makes much less sense, has less functionality and less safety features than Android Auto. And somehow CarPlay is also inverting the rolling control my car has, just like they do with the scrolling on touch pads.
  - foxtr0t 6y ago
    Having an android and an iphone and had two vehicles with both AA and CarPlay, I can confirm that android auto is a much better experience than carplay.
  - 0xEFF 6y ago
    Would a full-cabin CarPlay beat other luxury EV interfaces? I think that's the question. Auto manufacturers produce sub-par software interfaces. Is there a luxury EV that runs purely on android or produces a software interface as good as Apple's?
    - occamschainsaw 6y ago
      Not to be pedantic but Volvo already makes atleast one model of an EV (XC40) that runs purely on Android. The android system also allows you to run CarPlay if you connect your iPhone. https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/9/20906777/volvo-xc40-suv-ev-native-android-auto-google-assistant-maps https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/9/20906777/volvo-xc40-suv-e...
- treis 6y ago
  That's my point. They can improve the car experience through Carplay and the iPhone. There's no point in manufacturing the entire car. And ultimately buttons and entertainment centers only move the needle for relatively comparable cars. Apple would first have to get as good at Toyota et al at building the rest of the car before a better UX can win.
onethought 6y ago
> Hard to see them doing better than car companies that have been building cars for decades. I'm sure Nokia had the same confidence in 2005.
- tobr 6y ago
  Past performance is not indicative of future results etc, but you’re right, this is basically exactly what Palm CEO Ed Colligan said about the rumored iPhone a few months before it was revealed[1]: > “We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,” he said. “PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.” 1: https://daringfireball.net/2006/11/colligan_head_stuck https://daringfireball.net/2006/11/colligan_head_stuck
  - baybal2 6y ago
    And they didn't. Iphone 1 was far from a commercial success. 3GS was the first one that approached the cult status. It tool them 4 generations to get there, and a lot of money.
    - jbullock35 6y ago
      > Iphone 1 was far from a commercial success. I don't think that's true. For example, less than a year after its release, the iPhone accounted for 28% of smartphones sold in the U.S. (and presumably for a greater percentage of smartphone-sale revenue): see https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/02/iphone-owns-28-percent-of-us-smartphone-market/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/02/iphone-owns-28-perce.... And half a year after that, the news was better still: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/10/apple-officially-surpasses-10-million-iphones-sold-in-2008/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/10/apple-officially-sur...
      - peddling-brink 6y ago
        There weren't that many smartphones then. Most people were using feature phones.

by treis 6y ago

sneak 6y ago

> Everything else is better done as knobs and buttons. Apple is quite good at knobs and buttons, and what may eventually become interior finishes.

function_seven 6y ago
When they decide to implement a hardware control, it's usually done well. But their records is hit-and-miss in my opinion. Good: iPod click wheel, iPhone side buttons/switches, old chiclet keyboards, trackpad. Bad: Butterfly keyboards, AppleTV remote is awful (swipes and edge-clicks for all sorts of things), their mice have always been a pain to use (wanna right click? Better lift your left finger completely away from the mouse) But they also aggressively remove physical interfaces where possible. One-button mice, removal of home button on iPhone, removal of function keys on MacBooks, etc. I hope they don't do that with a car. There should be a dozen knobs and buttons that have dedicated features. Not just wipers and signals either. I'm talking about volume control, seat adjustments, windows, etc.
- daniellarusso 6y ago
  I look forward to steering and shifting gears with a multipoint touchscreen, don’t you?
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  I hadn't thought about this until your comment. While I think Apple building a car is... dubious (both the idea that they would and that they should even if they can), I'd been thinking "well, at least Apple is good at UI," but I really don't like Tesla-esque touchscreen-for-everything auto interfaces, and that would be a serious temptation for Apple.
  - enos_feedler 6y ago
    I think Apple is smart enough to do marker research on this. Tesla used a big tablet to cheap out. Apple is not going to cheap out
- selectodude 6y ago
  A volume knob thats a blown up version of the wheel on the Apple Watch would be something.
  - function_seven 6y ago
    Yes. That crown is really nice. Apple is good at tactile, when they want to be. I just hope they agree that eyes-on-road interactions will require more of that, and less of the touchscreen-only stuff. They probably will. One way to look at it is how much they care about accessibility on iOS. If they put that much effort into those features there, then nailing those details in a car will be natural.
    - enos_feedler 6y ago
      I think Apple is doing car exactly because we should be looking at the road. I am sure their AR technology will be incorporated into windshield head up display

0xEFF 6y ago

> I'm also not sure what Apple's edge here is. At this point all I really want out of an entertainment center is a screen for my phone to plug into. Apple has been doing CarPlay for years. If they do at least as well with the rest of the interior they’ll have an edge over most luxury cars today.

capableweb 6y ago
I don't think CarPlay is ahead what anyone else is doing, Android Auto works in reality much better than CarPlay, at least with my car. The UX of CarPlay makes much less sense, has less functionality and less safety features than Android Auto. And somehow CarPlay is also inverting the rolling control my car has, just like they do with the scrolling on touch pads.
- foxtr0t 6y ago
  Having an android and an iphone and had two vehicles with both AA and CarPlay, I can confirm that android auto is a much better experience than carplay.
- 0xEFF 6y ago
  Would a full-cabin CarPlay beat other luxury EV interfaces? I think that's the question. Auto manufacturers produce sub-par software interfaces. Is there a luxury EV that runs purely on android or produces a software interface as good as Apple's?
  - occamschainsaw 6y ago
    Not to be pedantic but Volvo already makes atleast one model of an EV (XC40) that runs purely on Android. The android system also allows you to run CarPlay if you connect your iPhone. https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/9/20906777/volvo-xc40-suv-ev-native-android-auto-google-assistant-maps https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/9/20906777/volvo-xc40-suv-e...
treis 6y ago
That's my point. They can improve the car experience through Carplay and the iPhone. There's no point in manufacturing the entire car. And ultimately buttons and entertainment centers only move the needle for relatively comparable cars. Apple would first have to get as good at Toyota et al at building the rest of the car before a better UX can win.

onethought 6y ago

> Hard to see them doing better than car companies that have been building cars for decades. I'm sure Nokia had the same confidence in 2005.

tobr 6y ago
Past performance is not indicative of future results etc, but you’re right, this is basically exactly what Palm CEO Ed Colligan said about the rumored iPhone a few months before it was revealed[1]: > “We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,” he said. “PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.” 1: https://daringfireball.net/2006/11/colligan_head_stuck https://daringfireball.net/2006/11/colligan_head_stuck
- baybal2 6y ago
  And they didn't. Iphone 1 was far from a commercial success. 3GS was the first one that approached the cult status. It tool them 4 generations to get there, and a lot of money.
  - jbullock35 6y ago
    > Iphone 1 was far from a commercial success. I don't think that's true. For example, less than a year after its release, the iPhone accounted for 28% of smartphones sold in the U.S. (and presumably for a greater percentage of smartphone-sale revenue): see https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/02/iphone-owns-28-percent-of-us-smartphone-market/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/02/iphone-owns-28-perce.... And half a year after that, the news was better still: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/10/apple-officially-surpasses-10-million-iphones-sold-in-2008/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/10/apple-officially-sur...
    - peddling-brink 6y ago
      There weren't that many smartphones then. Most people were using feature phones.