7 ms·

I think we should start limiting tuition by making it be tied to the first year salary of students graduating from the same school with the same degree. If you

I think we should start limiting tuition by making it be tied to the first year salary of students graduating from the same school with the same degree. If you want federal money, that is the rule. And room/board must be optional, you can't be forced to live on campus.

vorpalhex 6y ago
That might work for Computer Science where grads can be employed quickly and at very solid wages but it won't meaningfully apply for most fields like business, chemistry or physics.
- anoonmoose 6y ago
  Then those schools will be disincentivized to charge people for degrees that won't pay for themselves, which is good which will result in more people going into degrees where people can be employed quickly at solid wages, which is good which will result in a scarcity of people going into the fields you mentioned, which will increase the wages in those fields which will incentivize people to go into them this, like most things, is a supply and demand problem, and we have created too much supply in certain areas
  - dnadler 6y ago
    They will also be disincentivized to offer those degrees at all. Which, IMO is definitely not good. Obviously these issues are nuanced and complicated...
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      They’re not nuanced or complicated. If society (taxpayers) want the benefit of a populace educated in those fields, they need to pay for them by funding schools.
      - tesmar2 6y ago
        > they need to pay for them by funding schools I want a populace educated in those fields, and there are much betters way to do it than robbing the citizenry. One way might be to agree to work for a company afterwards who might pay for it, another to join the army in exchange for paying for it. Another might be to stop ensuring loans so that prices fall and become attainable to someone working part-time and going to school. Loans become not such a burden then, if you even want them. Lots of ways.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Such as?
        tesmar2 6y ago
        Edited with examples.
  - theevilsharpie 6y ago
    Even if schools could accurately estimate the "value" of a degree based on expected future earnings, that estimate is going to be affected by a potential student's employability, and the risk that the student may not complete the program. "Tie student loan funding to the value of a degree" is a fantasy. In the real world, what would actually happen is that student loans would become limited to those who could put up some sort of collateral, which for the figures involved involved in a typical college education would largely limit it to the already-wealthy.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      If the goal is to provide the non wealthy with the ability to attend higher education facilities, then scholarships or grants or taxpayer funding for the school is the proper method. Giving out blank check loans with no underwriting standards does not help the non wealthy. It results in what has already happened in the US, schools collect as much tuition money as they can since why not, and the non wealthy end up indebted for the rest of their life.
      - imtringued 6y ago
        This is also the same reason that payday loans are predatory. You are giving someone a loan who has been rejected by all other credit institutions. The only reason why you are giving that person a loan is because you want to take advantage of their weaknesses and make a profit out of their misery. The only real way to help is by giving out money that they don't have to pay back.
bluGill 6y ago
Is college a form of jobs training or a way to make yourself better? There is the disconnect, because both are true in different amounts for different people. If it is just jobs training you are correct. We shouldn't have "under water basket weaving" type courses because there is no market for that. There is some need for art, but only in the context of art is useful to make better marketing materials, so the degree should be offered by the business school in context of marketing courses. History is useful to make you a well rounded critical thinker, but if you are going for a history degree it should be sponsored by the school that will eventually give you tenure as a professor. If you just want to make yourself better: art is very interesting as a subject. Have fun learning it. Likewise history is interesting even if there are no job prospects. However because these are no job prospects (this generalization is of course false - but true enough for discussion) you shouldn't be getting such a degree if you cannot self finance it from your current job. Both of the above arguments makes for a worse world in my opinion.
- daniellarusso 6y ago
  If it is a way to make yourself ‘better’ - why not allow the loans to be used for other types of betterment, like physical and dietary health? Or, is there a way to make oneself better without relying on tens of thousand of dollars of debt, which cannot even be waived via bankruptcy?
- friedman23 6y ago
  Better by what standard? The current system is definitely better at creating half baked artists.
- zeku 6y ago
  I think the simple answer is to look at how many Euro countries pull off having good universities for low cost... and copy them. No need to reinvent what has already been done. Just need to "port" it to America.
  - tesmar2 6y ago
    > low cost Not low cost. They tax the hell out of their citizens.

vorpalhex 6y ago

That might work for Computer Science where grads can be employed quickly and at very solid wages but it won't meaningfully apply for most fields like business, chemistry or physics.

anoonmoose 6y ago
Then those schools will be disincentivized to charge people for degrees that won't pay for themselves, which is good which will result in more people going into degrees where people can be employed quickly at solid wages, which is good which will result in a scarcity of people going into the fields you mentioned, which will increase the wages in those fields which will incentivize people to go into them this, like most things, is a supply and demand problem, and we have created too much supply in certain areas
- dnadler 6y ago
  They will also be disincentivized to offer those degrees at all. Which, IMO is definitely not good. Obviously these issues are nuanced and complicated...
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    They’re not nuanced or complicated. If society (taxpayers) want the benefit of a populace educated in those fields, they need to pay for them by funding schools.
    - tesmar2 6y ago
      > they need to pay for them by funding schools I want a populace educated in those fields, and there are much betters way to do it than robbing the citizenry. One way might be to agree to work for a company afterwards who might pay for it, another to join the army in exchange for paying for it. Another might be to stop ensuring loans so that prices fall and become attainable to someone working part-time and going to school. Loans become not such a burden then, if you even want them. Lots of ways.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Such as?
        tesmar2 6y ago
        Edited with examples.
- theevilsharpie 6y ago
  Even if schools could accurately estimate the "value" of a degree based on expected future earnings, that estimate is going to be affected by a potential student's employability, and the risk that the student may not complete the program. "Tie student loan funding to the value of a degree" is a fantasy. In the real world, what would actually happen is that student loans would become limited to those who could put up some sort of collateral, which for the figures involved involved in a typical college education would largely limit it to the already-wealthy.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    If the goal is to provide the non wealthy with the ability to attend higher education facilities, then scholarships or grants or taxpayer funding for the school is the proper method. Giving out blank check loans with no underwriting standards does not help the non wealthy. It results in what has already happened in the US, schools collect as much tuition money as they can since why not, and the non wealthy end up indebted for the rest of their life.
    - imtringued 6y ago
      This is also the same reason that payday loans are predatory. You are giving someone a loan who has been rejected by all other credit institutions. The only reason why you are giving that person a loan is because you want to take advantage of their weaknesses and make a profit out of their misery. The only real way to help is by giving out money that they don't have to pay back.

bluGill 6y ago

Is college a form of jobs training or a way to make yourself better? There is the disconnect, because both are true in different amounts for different people. If it is just jobs training you are correct. We shouldn't have "under water basket weaving" type courses because there is no market for that. There is some need for art, but only in the context of art is useful to make better marketing materials, so the degree should be offered by the business school in context of marketing courses. History is useful to make you a well rounded critical thinker, but if you are going for a history degree it should be sponsored by the school that will eventually give you tenure as a professor. If you just want to make yourself better: art is very interesting as a subject. Have fun learning it. Likewise history is interesting even if there are no job prospects. However because these are no job prospects (this generalization is of course false - but true enough for discussion) you shouldn't be getting such a degree if you cannot self finance it from your current job. Both of the above arguments makes for a worse world in my opinion.

daniellarusso 6y ago
If it is a way to make yourself ‘better’ - why not allow the loans to be used for other types of betterment, like physical and dietary health? Or, is there a way to make oneself better without relying on tens of thousand of dollars of debt, which cannot even be waived via bankruptcy?
friedman23 6y ago
Better by what standard? The current system is definitely better at creating half baked artists.
zeku 6y ago
I think the simple answer is to look at how many Euro countries pull off having good universities for low cost... and copy them. No need to reinvent what has already been done. Just need to "port" it to America.
- tesmar2 6y ago
  > low cost Not low cost. They tax the hell out of their citizens.